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Carrier Magazines - 2/4/2021 10:29:13 AM   
DWReese

 

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I'm working on a scenario involving modern US carriers, and I am thinking about using realistic magazine limits for the first time.

In looking at the standard US carrier magazine in the game and I see that it has 160 AIM-120 D (which all of the planes use) and 160 AIM-120 C (which none of the planes use). In fact, there are no load outs for any of the US carrier Hornets (or otherwise) that use the AIM-120 C any longer.

Do the carriers actually carry 160 of both of these versions, or was the 160 AIM-120 C version just left over from a previous magazine and never deleted? Wayne? Or, anyone else?

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Doug
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RE: Carrier Magazines - 2/4/2021 11:44:29 AM   
thewood1

 

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I thought the C7 was still in parallel use in both the USN and USAF. In the DoD 2020 acquisition report, there was a line item for C7 software upgrades, as well as some further D developments. So it would appear that the Cs are still in use. I know that is only a tangential answer, but all I had at hand.

"Air Intercept Missile-120C7 (AIM-120C7) Advanced Electronic Protection Improvement Program (AEPIP): AEPIP is
structured to deliver combat capability for the AIM-12007 via two incremental and complimentary software tapes, Tape 1
and Tape 2. Tape 1 provides enhanced capability to fielded systems. Tape 2 builds on the capabilities of Tape 1 and
expands the system's performance envelope. Tape 1 and 2 performance probability of weapons effectiveness meets or
exceeds requirements. Tape 1 fielded in March 2018. For Tape 2, four of four Operational Test (OT) shots were conducted
between June and October 2018. The Multi-Service Operational Test and Evaluation report stated AEPIP Tape 2 is effective,
suitable, and mission capable. Tape 2 planned fielding date is third quarter FY 2019."

The D was listed for a SIP upgrade in the next line.

(in reply to DWReese)
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RE: Carrier Magazines - 2/4/2021 12:29:50 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Doug

I find the carrier magazines in stock are representational and span a few years. You need to go through and cull the munitions you don't need or want. Use the upper limit as an indicator - 160 AMRAAMs is probably the standard load and you chose which one. Same goes for HARMs or whatever. You will often find multiple versions of the same munition.

Much easer to do than starting from scratch though.

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RE: Carrier Magazines - 2/4/2021 1:38:46 PM   
BeirutDude


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Doug

I find the carrier magazines in stock are representational and span a few years. You need to go through and cull the munitions you don't need or want. Use the upper limit as an indicator - 160 AMRAAMs is probably the standard load and you chose which one. Same goes for HARMs or whatever. You will often find multiple versions of the same munition.

Much easer to do than starting from scratch though.


Funny, I take the opposite approach. I cull all munitions from the magazine. Load one aircraft of each type and load that aircraft's PGMs/"Specialized" munitions (with an upper limit for any type) to ensure 1 or 2 load outs for at least one squadron depending upon scenario time frame/duration.

So for example, I load One E/F-18G and if they can carry 4 HARMs I load 32 to ensure there is 1 load out/aircraft (4 Growlers) for two sorties for each aircraft. Usually I use the Heavy loadout as my upper bound.

So my assumption is each type will have 2 loadouts/aircraft/PGM unless it is very specialized such as an LRASM. There I may only give two or four total loadouts.

After PGMs I load out the remaining space with the gravity/dumb bombs. Usually if I need space, unless mining is an issue I loose the Quickstrikes and other mines.

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RE: Carrier Magazines - 2/4/2021 3:23:19 PM   
DWReese

 

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Thanks Bart.

That would make sense. I couldn't see why a carrier would have two different versions of AIM-120 missiles when their planes only use one variant. Your answer makes sense.

I'll just leave them in the scenario since they can't be used anyway, but it's nice to see the versatility.

Thanks again.

Doug

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 5
RE: Carrier Magazines - 2/4/2021 3:28:34 PM   
DWReese

 

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Al,

As I said, this is the first time of me ever attempting a manipulation of a carrier magazine, and I was actually thinking of one of your scenarios when the thought came to mind. I remember you making a statement that the game player should not edit the amount of ordinance available in your scenario otherwise it would shift the balance of the scenario. I can plainly see that the game becomes more interesting when the sides aren't always fully equipped with an endless supply of weapons.

I do see that your approach is certainly a great way of doing things, and probably is the most accurate, but it may be a little more work as well.

Thanks again.

Doug

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 6
RE: Carrier Magazines - 2/4/2021 4:07:37 PM   
schweggy

 

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Periodically I will delete all the weapons in the carrier magazine and go through the process of re-stocking it with only weapons suitable for whatever make/model of aircraft I've put on the carrier. It's tedious, but that way I put the weapons I'd like to use at my disposal. Perhaps not realistic...

I'll also do this with other ships and bases that have magazines. I'll put whatever weapons are available/suitable for only the make/model/variant of airframes used there. Unless I expect to have "visitors" that require additional weapons.

(in reply to DWReese)
Post #: 7
RE: Carrier Magazines - 2/4/2021 4:32:50 PM   
DWReese

 

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Thanks for the input.

The scenario that I am playing is actually a Part 2 type of scenario, so it would only be logical to assume the expenditure of some ordinance in Part 1. The double dose of AAMs however, kind of threw me. I didn't know if planes could be loaded with those after the better ones ran out, but I didn't see any load outs where those were carried, so the answer appeared to be a resounding "no."

I have had previous experience editing the magazines of ships, but never full carrier magazines before. This is a first.

Thanks again.

Doug

(in reply to schweggy)
Post #: 8
RE: Carrier Magazines - 2/4/2021 4:37:01 PM   
thewood1

 

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There is a very good reason for two versions of the 120 being in a magazine. One is when the transition is ongoing from one missile to the next in service. The other is that the D is built specifically to fit inside an F-22 and an F-35. I would imagine that if the navy is trying to use up all stocks, they would carry a mix while transition to the F-35.

To me, its just like the VLS discussions. A magazine will get adjusted based on time period and mission. As scenario designer, you have to make that part of your consideration.

(in reply to schweggy)
Post #: 9
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