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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 12:40:47 PM   
Jorgen_CAB

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir
Really? There were terrible starvations in Russia and Europe during both world wars, and later into the first half of the 20th century. From the 50s, food has been massively wasted and unequally distributed globally, but by no means this is an issue of the past. Distant Worlds is at the scale of entire planets and solar systems. You still need land to have crops, even if science can turn a desert to be fertile (perhaps sustainably someday...). You can even have "agri-domes", sure, but you'd need pretty big ones to feed hundreds of millions of people. Not to mention the logistics.

Should the economy/management aspect of DW2 be expanded, I think food sould be an important factor to introduce for many reasons, one being the realism and "living" feel DW has shined for. Also because, at least in DWU, medical development was the only way to directly boost population growth (aside from ruins and character traits), and that was a bit weak for such a critical variable in the game.


Yes... I think it is a none issue from a larger perspective... that conflict or social inequality will create resource shortages in effected regions is not a good argument for food being important on a galactic or planetary scale. Food only require basic minerals and energy found everywhere we can live. Delivering the minerals and growing the food you need being it vegetable to meat will be so easy it is just minerals and energy no different than any other important things we need in an advanced society. Land area for growing food will not be important, neither will it be on Earth in the future either. As long as the minerals and energy are available you have all the food you need.

< Message edited by Jorgen_CAB -- 2/5/2021 12:47:06 PM >

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 1:53:25 PM   
OnePercent

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raagun

Weird that people mostly want things which add practically nothing to game.
Orbiting planets -> visual only. And **** ton of work on programming level.
Resources -> DW is not about resource management essentially. DW only cares about resources on strategic level. Except fuel which is really operational thing. So adding essentially resource management minigame will be bad for game overall I think.

Fight me!!


>Fight me

Sure, The original intent of the devs was to make Distant Worlds 1 but better, this was literally written on their announcement teaser 1 of DW2, in my opinion this means to include or eventually include all the features that made distant worlds 1 better than other 4X games, to not include orbiting solarsystems is devolving that original goal, and goes against the words of the devs themselves.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 2:04:47 PM   
Jorgen_CAB

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OnePercent


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raagun

Weird that people mostly want things which add practically nothing to game.
Orbiting planets -> visual only. And **** ton of work on programming level.
Resources -> DW is not about resource management essentially. DW only cares about resources on strategic level. Except fuel which is really operational thing. So adding essentially resource management minigame will be bad for game overall I think.

Fight me!!


>Fight me

Sure, The original intent of the devs was to make Distant Worlds 1 but better, this was literally written on their announcement teaser 1 of DW2, in my opinion this means to include or eventually include all the features that made distant worlds 1 better than other 4X games, to not include orbiting solarsystems is devolving that original goal, and goes against the words of the devs themselves.


To be honest I'm more interested in good game performance than orbiting planets... why not have a 3D star-map while at it as that is more realistic?!? ;)

No... I want to be able to play in bigger galaxies rather than adding minor things that make the game semi realistic. As long as it does not impact performance in any major way then sure... it is a nice thing to have.

Just my opinion.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 2:13:43 PM   
Raagun

 

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I would pick orbiting planet too. But explanation why they didnt shows it is not worth it instead of some new cool features.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 3:08:25 PM   
SirHoraceHarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raagun

I would pick orbiting planet too. But explanation why they didnt shows it is not worth it instead of some new cool features.


Will make for some interesting system configurations using the game editor. If you like to buff the AI with a better home system to give a more competitive game you should be able to cluster all the planets and moons it needs for a fast and efficient start so it doesn't stall out if the random seed was poor. Can't do that in DWU because they all eventually drift away from each other. It would really be handy if there were system templates that the map generator could pull from so each race can start with a custom home system or even seed out treasure systems filled with good planets and resources to make the lucrative to fight over. But thats not in the launch plan so hoping for it in an expansion.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 3:42:04 PM   
Miletkir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorgen_CAB

Food only require basic minerals and energy found everywhere we can live.



Actually, it requires rich soils and energy. That's a big difference.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorgen_CAB

Delivering the minerals and growing the food you need being it vegetable to meat will be so easy it is just minerals and energy no different than any other important things we need in an advanced society. Land area for growing food will not be important, neither will it be on Earth in the future either. As long as the minerals and energy are available you have all the food you need.



Are you by any chance a Star Trek fan? Food synthesizers are cool, but far from realistic. I don't want to bring in real examples that would be too political, but the crisis of our time is precisely about fertile land, because our soils are ruined. It's the exact opposite: fertile land area will be one of the major issues of Earth's future. Because of thermodynamic laws, even if you grow superfoods, you can't renew organic matter in a million bodies with a backyard garden. And that's even worse for secondary producers and meat. Although in that case you can still imagine it might be grown in factories...


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Post #: 96
RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 3:44:24 PM   
Miletkir


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Results at 150 votes:



Pirates are taking a beating

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 5:25:32 PM   
Hazard151

 

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There's the hydroponics and aeroponics option for food production, and theoretically we could manufacture the required soil. It's not as if the chemical and physical structure of good soil is unknown to humanity these days.

It's just that doing that takes a lot of effort and infrastructure investment, and can come with unexpected side effects. Australia dammed a few rivers to shift their stream inland for irrigation purposes, but salt deposits beneath the soil have been slowly salinating the soil due to the changed water table. The Aral Sea is likewise drying up as a result of irrigation efforts. We could absolutely use massive desalination plants to provide water for agricultural purposes in the Sahara, and mining, refining and mixing the needed fertilizers is something we can definitely do.

It's going to be very expensive, but it's possible. It would even be possible to create indoor farms, supplying food from vast, multistory greenhouses, so long as the soil's deep enough before it runs into concrete. Keeping those soils fertile would, again, depend on fertilizers.

I would expect that early on, new colonies will be (partially) dependent on off-planet imports of food, until farming infrastructure and procedures specific to the planet are developed. After that planets will be effectively, or close enough, self sufficient on food.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 8:20:51 PM   
Miletkir


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Manufacturing soils would be a challenge because of the organic and microbacterial contents. As a matter of fact, soils renew themselves, but they need be used intelligently and sustainably.

The other limiting factor is indeed water, but, as you say, it's perhaps easier to imagine how to remedy water shortages in the future. So water may be abstracted within food.

And that's my point. Food can serve as an abstraction for a number of important things that are essential to the economy / society. Actually, food can be a very active part of colony happiness, growth and even trade.

The way I would grossly see a layered economy structured:



Of course, everything could be connected to trade, but luxury resources would have the strongest impact on it.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 8:30:38 PM   
LordMM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir

Manufacturing soils would be a challenge because of the organic and microbacterial contents. As a matter of fact, soils renew themselves, but they need be used intelligently and sustainably.

The other limiting factor is indeed water, but, as you say, it's perhaps easier to imagine how to remedy water shortages in the future. So water may be abstracted within food.

And that's my point. Food can serve as an abstraction for a number of important things that are essential to the economy / society. Actually, food can be a very active part of colony happiness, growth and even trade.

The way I would grossly see a layered economy structured:



Of course, everything could be connected to trade, but luxury resources would have the strongest impact on it.



The processing facilities could be on planets instead of extra space facilities. This way you could build entire Industrial centers. Like one of those 40k Industrial worlds. That way you really would have worlds that have actual strategic value during war time.

I obsessed with the processing of raw materials far more than orbiting planets. Adding such a feature would simply be a strain on many low end systems.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 9:36:20 PM   
SirHoraceHarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LordMM

The processing facilities could be on planets instead of extra space facilities. This way you could build entire Industrial centers. Like one of those 40k Industrial worlds. That way you really would have worlds that have actual strategic value during war time.


This would be my entire reason for having some form of specialized planetary development to make certain worlds into treasures you cannot allow to fall into enemy hands or a top priority to take away from an enemy. As it stands once you get past a certain amount of colonies they all blend together in usefulness even if some may have things like loros fruit etc. Those are nice to have but mainly a benefit early to mid game when your empire is still small and not a huge loss if you lose one during a war at later stages.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 9:48:47 PM   
Hazard151

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir

Manufacturing soils would be a challenge because of the organic and microbacterial contents. As a matter of fact, soils renew themselves, but they need be used intelligently and sustainably.


Less of a challenge than you might think. You'd need to take the mineral substrates, grind them to the required size and mix it with ground up waste organic material (we hardly eat the entire plant of most produce, and there's the literal tons of sewage plant biosludge any population of size will produce) and a literal ton of finely distributed soil on top. Then just let it cook for a while.

Employing microbial life for our own purposes is something we've done for literally thousands of years, and 'make nice conditions, sprinkle seed culture on top and let it sit' is exactly how we've done manure piles, compost heaps, mushrooms, cured meats, leavened bread, antibiotics and alcohol.

The real problem would be getting things started. Once a system to supply everything is in place, it'll keep going.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MiletkirThe other limiting factor is indeed water, but, as you say, it's perhaps easier to imagine how to remedy water shortages in the future. So water may be abstracted within food.

And that's my point. Food can serve as an abstraction for a number of important things that are essential to the economy / society. Actually, food can be a very active part of colony happiness, growth and even trade.


It's more that water is an easier problem to solve because potable water is chemically much less complex. Food is definitely a key component of general life, but it's a fair question as to whether or not it'd be an interesting component of gameplay for Distant Worlds 2.

It's already got a pretty large number of resources to track.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MiletkirThe way I would grossly see a layered economy structured:



Of course, everything could be connected to trade, but luxury resources would have the strongest impact on it.


Personally I'd gate things a little differently, and base it on colonial development. The game has enough resources to go around already and adding to that is unlikely to be very helpful. I'd put it down as 'produce' and 'fine foods', with fine foods a luxury resource that requires produce and a medium or higher development colony to create.

Trying to be more complex than that would require a fundamental rework of the economy, both to avoid the entire thing collapsing and to ensure that intermediate goods are properly integrated in the rest of the economy.

I mean, if you are tossing electronics, fuel, alloys and fire arms around as resource concepts you need to figure out what they are made of, where they are produced, and where they are relevant for ship construction. You can't have half a dozen resources or more resources exclusive to colony mechanics and accept their raw materials for every other construction purpose.

It's one thing when you do that for food and abstract food demand for military purposes away as 'so many orders of magnitude less demand compared to the millions a single point of cargo feeds normally it's abstracted into the running costs', but when food, electronics, fire arms, fuel, alloys and medical supplies all show up I will expect them to be relevant somehow beyond being a resource sink and gating for colony mechanics.

I'd want them to show up in the ship, station, building and army construction and maintenance requirement lists as material requirements, even if it's just for higher tier components.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 10:02:51 PM   
Ranbir


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Wow I actually can't believe Orbiting planets is winning. I thought I was the only weirdo! @Erik dude I wouldn't mind, given the work involved, if an entire expansion was literally just to get orbiting planets successful.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 10:06:05 PM   
Jorgen_CAB

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir

Actually, it requires rich soils and energy. That's a big difference.



Moving MASSIVE amount of organic material is a WASTE of energy instead of moving the minerals to the colony as you need a full ecosystem in that colony anyway. Rich soil is just minerals and chemistry and you can create that environment anywhere, even on a station in the middle of space. We could potentially do this today anywhere in our own solar system if we colonised somewhere (when we do that). It actually is mandatory to have a fully functional ecosystems... are you going to run faeces barges back to the world it came from?!?

Water or rather ice is one of the most common molecule in the entire universe so supplying water to a colony to get things going from hydroponics should not be a huge problem for an interstellar species. I'm also sure that almost all planets we can usually colonise in DW have water on them in some form.

No matter where you go you would find self sustaining ecosystems in terms of basic needs for people to survive, anything less would be a waste of energy.

I'm sure that even space stations have complete self sustaining ecosystems in DW.

Every ecosystem have to be by nature self sustaining and that includes food, water and all the bio matter to sustain it... plus energy.

In the future we will not use the actual land to produce food here on Earth either (in general), it will all be highly effective hydroponic bays operated by automated robots where you can produce food for all the Earths population in just a tiny fraction of the space we use today. This will be required for the Earth ecosystem to survive in the future. Anything that is grown on real soil will be very expensive and only for luxurious foods. Meat will also be completely grown in what looks like giant breweries requiring just a fraction of the energy that meat production require today.

Now... just a few hundred years into the future and the sky is the limit. The above is basically technology we possess today but not mature and thus too expensive to use currently.

So... no... food in this setting is probably much less important than machine tools or electronics to be honest which you need for a modern society to function (including producing food).

Food will at most be a luxury goods item, that would be just fine to represent food in the game.

< Message edited by Jorgen_CAB -- 2/5/2021 10:38:06 PM >

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Post #: 104
RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 11:03:44 PM   
Jorgen_CAB

 

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An even more important question from a realistic perspective is life itself... becasue you probably would not be able to mix life (any type) that is not based on the same type of DNA. So you either have to assume that all life in the universe have only happened once and then spread to every corner or that life from different DNA somehow can coexist. I think most scientist are pretty sure that two sets it completely different DNA would not work well at all.

This would realistically mean that every planet with life would have to be completely isolated from the population living there in real life, most likely.

Now, this is a game so we don't really care about reality that much... ;)

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 11:22:01 PM   
Hazard151

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorgen_CAB

An even more important question from a realistic perspective is life itself... becasue you probably would not be able to mix life (any type) that is not based on the same type of DNA. So you either have to assume that all life in the universe have only happened once and then spread to every corner or that life from different DNA somehow can coexist. I think most scientist are pretty sure that two sets it completely different DNA would not work well at all.

This would realistically mean that every planet with life would have to be completely isolated from the population living there in real life, most likely.

Now, this is a game so we don't really care about reality that much... ;)


Actually, if we presume carbohydrate based life we can presume their DNA will be similar enough in principle that nutrition can be drawn from it. Theoretically.

Simply because the same universal laws are in place and the living body is actually somewhat to very capable of dealing with otherwise odd chemical structures. It'll probably still be something our enzymes can deal with.


Now, whether or not substances that are hilariously toxic to Earth originated life are common basic building blocks of non-Earth originated life is an entirely different question, as is the reverse, and when you are talking about life that isn't based on carbohydrate polymers doped with nitrogen and sulfur among with other trace compounds but on something weirder extreme toxicity is to be expected.

I'm currently in a Shadow Empire game where local life is carbon-fluorine compound based. This probably means that teflon is a key component in at least some of the life on that planet. Understandably, this means that local wildlife is exceedingly toxic to the humans living there.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/5/2021 11:38:10 PM   
Jorgen_CAB

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hazard151
Actually, if we presume carbohydrate based life we can presume their DNA will be similar enough in principle that nutrition can be drawn from it. Theoretically.

Simply because the same universal laws are in place and the living body is actually somewhat to very capable of dealing with otherwise odd chemical structures. It'll probably still be something our enzymes can deal with.


Now, whether or not substances that are hilariously toxic to Earth originated life are common basic building blocks of non-Earth originated life is an entirely different question, as is the reverse, and when you are talking about life that isn't based on carbohydrate polymers doped with nitrogen and sulfur among with other trace compounds but on something weirder extreme toxicity is to be expected.

I'm currently in a Shadow Empire game where local life is carbon-fluorine compound based. This probably means that teflon is a key component in at least some of the life on that planet. Understandably, this means that local wildlife is exceedingly toxic to the humans living there.


I'm not talking about interaction on that level but rather on the ecosystems as a whole would not mix well, you would have to keep the two ecosystems separate or one would inevitably destroy the other. There are a allot of things in life that is quite important such as bacteria, viruses and things that could become extremely difficult for one or the other life form to deal with.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/6/2021 12:35:00 AM   
Hazard151

 

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Biochemical barriers would handle most of those. Quite simply, a pathogen that makes fish sick is unlikely to make a human sick, and a pathogen that makes a fungus or plant sick will probably do nothing at all to an animal. The divide between two species from evolutionary pathways separated by literal light years and millions upon millions of years would be nearly-to-actually insurmountable.

There would be exceptions, of course, but those are novel diseases.

I'd be more worried about invasive species, but even in that case the problem would be the invader not the local species, and Earth originated species would be the invader.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/6/2021 9:15:09 AM   
Hyperion1


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All the talk about the food is very interesting, but it will complexify a lot things and finally limit our possibilities of race customization:
-What about organic but not carbohydrate based life?
-What about synthetic races?
-What about predator races that feed or breed on sentients being, cannibal or not, eating animals also or not?
-What about intellant virus or parasitic races?
-What about inorganic races that feed on energies, spirits, emotions or minerals?
-What about plants races?
-What about of a mix of Carbohydrate based life like 5% and the rest synthetic 95%, for a race heavily dependent, of its own robotization?

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/6/2021 1:29:37 PM   
RogerBacon

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hyperion1

All the talk about the food is very interesting,


Speaking of food, I always thought it was the biggest thing missing from DWU. Your population can grow and grow and its just assumed there is always enough food on every planet. It's not being brought in because blocades don't cause starvation. I thought about modding food several times but was just too lazy to do it I guess.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/6/2021 2:40:06 PM   
Jorgen_CAB

 

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Still... food is part of a full ecosystem cycle and you need to provide basic sustenance in any colony for the ecosystem to function properly. This is why food make zero sense in a galactic scope. Food is just energy, as long as you have the basic minerals all that is needed is the energy, usually a star.

Not producing basic sustenance also would be quite dangerous and having it transported must be a huge waste of energy especially when you look at how basic it would be to provide it pretty much anywhere using very efficient hydroponics systems.

If you look at Earth then food was decoupled from population growth and development a long time ago. The only real problem with food today are usually social factors or conflicts. In the future we are also much less likely to farm large swathes of the land to produce basic food.

If a world are starving in DW that would not be because of lack of production but because of conflict and war, because the infrastructure is destroyed. Infrastructure probably are the most important factor to why a planets development are lowered, food in and of itself is just a bi-product in this calculation.

< Message edited by Jorgen_CAB -- 2/6/2021 2:42:07 PM >

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/6/2021 2:49:15 PM   
Hazard151

 

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Oh, shipping food absolutely makes sense.

It's mostly just a question of multiple factors, which include 'how many people do I need to feed', 'can I produce this specific product locally', 'how much product can I ship per day' and 'how much will it cost to ship what I want to ship'.

For tiny colonies mining valuable materials it makes sense to ship food. For large colonies with limited farming capacity but with easy access to another planet with enough excess food production it makes sense to ship food. For most other considerations though, at minimum the bulk of food production would have to be on the planet it's going to be eaten.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/6/2021 3:11:20 PM   
Dd_01


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Isn't it abstracted already by colony maintenance fees?

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/6/2021 5:10:22 PM   
Miletkir


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It is in the current system, but it could be added in in the context of a tiered economy type of expansion.

As for food and species type, Stellaris and other games have dealt with this already by differentiating their needs or food type. But it can also be quite generalized to apply to as many species as possible. A silicon-based lifeform could for instance produce food along with minerals, or have it's "food" produced with more efficiency on different planet types. That could create very interesting gameplay and increase faction identity.

Regarding the tiering of strategic resources, yes, some would be processed into fuel, other into alloys, and other into electronics. But there is no need to necessarily increase the amount of raw resources already present in the game.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/6/2021 5:29:45 PM   
Whiskiz

 

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Wouldn't there be farms, animals etc on planets for food for colonies to be self sufficient?

What colony in what situation is going to need to get intergalactic takeout?

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/6/2021 5:44:12 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RogerBacon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hyperion1

All the talk about the food is very interesting,


Speaking of food, I always thought it was the biggest thing missing from DWU. Your population can grow and grow and its just assumed there is always enough food on every planet. It's not being brought in because blocades don't cause starvation. I thought about modding food several times but was just too lazy to do it I guess.

I would say in DW1 it is abstracted behind planet quality. Quality * Size defines the maximum population, wich could represent how much food you can grow locally to support the population.

I only know one other realtime game with food shipments - Star Drive 1. Star Drive 2 kept it, but in a turnbased game. Freighters in 2 were just a resource, only appearing in the game if they were needed for a job.

It would not be totally unfeasible to have the private economy transport food to poor quality planets (that might have valuable mineable resources).
The biggest problem I see, is that Food is a time-critical resource. It does not mater if they get their steel delivery today or next year - nobody will starve or anything. But it looks very different for food.

Just recently in DW1 I had a massive traffic jam (~40 ships in queue to dock at a small spaceport with 3 docks). If any of those were delivering or retreiving food, the colony would have been in serious trouble.

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/6/2021 5:55:28 PM   
Miletkir


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I wouldn't make it too constraining. The amount of food available at a colony (through shipment or local production) could simply determine maximum population size, while food tier could impact happiness, and, like DW1, medical equipment could speed up population growth. Perhaps food tier could influence population growth as well. If for some reason, food availability goes down, you could have population emigrate, or, depending on the severity, like a blockade, starve and die off. But as much as possible the player shouldn't have to constantly worry about starvations - it should be, in my view, a limiting factor to growth more than anything.

< Message edited by Miletkir -- 2/6/2021 5:56:36 PM >

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RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/6/2021 6:53:41 PM   
LordMM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirHoraceHarkness


quote:

ORIGINAL: LordMM

The processing facilities could be on planets instead of extra space facilities. This way you could build entire Industrial centers. Like one of those 40k Industrial worlds. That way you really would have worlds that have actual strategic value during war time.


This would be my entire reason for having some form of specialized planetary development to make certain worlds into treasures you cannot allow to fall into enemy hands or a top priority to take away from an enemy. As it stands once you get past a certain amount of colonies they all blend together in usefulness even if some may have things like loros fruit etc. Those are nice to have but mainly a benefit early to mid game when your empire is still small and not a huge loss if you lose one during a war at later stages.



Yes, it's one of those things which adds life and atmosphere to the galaxy in addition to what we mentioned. Distant Worlds has everything a space opera can give. Developed inner rim worlds, under developed distant colonies. Trade lanes, freighters. Entire sectors of Pirates like the star wars outer rim. The famous resort base dishing out tons of cash due to its popularity. The only thing left in Distant Worlds is a decent planetary management system that allows planets to be unique. Like City worlds, Industrial worlds, Agri worlds etc. all of it has linked with the in-game economy.

(in reply to SirHoraceHarkness)
Post #: 118
RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/6/2021 7:44:59 PM   
Miskatonic81

 

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For any new mechanic for Distant Worlds, my only wish is that it stay true to the simulation roots. If specialized worlds are to be a thing then I don't want it to be click button -> planet now industry world. Maybe worlds begin generalized, producing what they need to be self-sufficient. With greater access to trade ensuring supply of needed resources, combined with relative safety, a planet could start devoting more population to specialized production. Or something along these lines anyway

(in reply to LordMM)
Post #: 119
RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? - 2/6/2021 9:52:43 PM   
MTGian

 

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Joined: 1/29/2021
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A few things on food:

1) Anything that differentiates planets and makes planets more unique is a good thing. If there is a situation where a planet has low livability/food production, but it still makes sense to colonize the planet and ship in food/"livability", then that would definitely add a lot of character to the planet.

2) The only fly in the ointment is what would justify colonizing such a planet? Why not build a mining station? Or a research station? Or whatever type of station makes the planet valuable? Scope? At a certain point, if mining is on a massive scale, then you are no longer talking about a mining "station".

3) Back in the real world, mines often led to the development of towns. Resources were a major justification for how countries/empires developed and expanded. Maybe extremely valuable mining stations should expand/require supporting infrastructure through a space port, which could develop into a place where people actually lived like in the Expanse. Such a place could require food deliveries.

Edit: We can't up vote posts in this forum, right? I would have upvoted LordMM's post. Love the idea of planetary management - industrial worlds, agri worlds, etc. all linked with the in-game economy. That sounds cool to me.

< Message edited by MTGian -- 2/6/2021 9:55:28 PM >

(in reply to Miskatonic81)
Post #: 120
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