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Tafass, Syria, 2021 (Submitted) - 1/29/2021 8:51:31 PM

BeirutDude

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Tafass, Syria, 2021

EDIT: Updated version on 01/31/2021 below

The Syrian 4th Armored Division operation against the Free Syrian Army (FSA) enclave near Tafass, SW Syria is actually ongoing right now (1/29/2021), with heavy fighting in the city. I extrapolated real world events and added a potential Syrian chemical strike as the mechanism to bring about a limited NATO/UAE/Jordanian strike to eliminate Syrian artillery/rockets near the city and provide limited support to the FSA.

EDIT: Minor tweaks about two hours after I had posted it. Shouldn't really impact play much but adjusted the experience levels and the sides started hostile, I switched that to Unfriendly. 6 people had downloaded it before the tweaks.

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 3/5/2021 11:07:25 PM >

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Post #: 1

RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 1/30/2021 12:14:52 PM

BeirutDude

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Added a Syrian No Navigation Zone over Jordan to keep 'Alert" aircraft from entering that country. I find it highly unlikely that Syrian aircraft would launch raids into Jordan given this particular situation.

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 1/30/2021 10:43:00 PM >

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 1/30/2021 8:24:01 PM

BDukes

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Hi BeirutDude

Great scenario. I don't want to spoil it but lots of good terrain and weapons/loadout choices to be made. You have space to really get creative and I think this is a great scenario now. Scale is perfect for a days worth of play.

Couple of nitpicks:
F-16F's and B's are usually trainer versions. The E's and A's are likely to be more numerous. Not even sure what impact that has as I don't think agility scores change because of that.
Could you mark the city of Tafas with a reference point? Ended up google earthing and marking it. Not exactly a big thing, but nice to have.

That's it. I'll be returning to this one as it really is one of the funniest I've played in awhile.

Thanks!

Mike

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Post #: 3

RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 1/30/2021 10:42:19 PM

BeirutDude

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Updated Scenario Below

quote:

ORIGINAL: BDukes

Hi BeirutDude

Great scenario. I don't want to spoil it but lots of good terrain and weapons/loadout choices to be made. You have space to really get creative and I think this is a great scenario now. Scale is perfect for a days worth of play.

Couple of nitpicks:
F-16F's and B's are usually trainer versions. The E's and A's are likely to be more numerous. Not even sure what impact that has as I don't think agility scores change because of that.
Could you mark the city of Tafas with a reference point? Ended up google earthing and marking it. Not exactly a big thing, but nice to have.

That's it. I'll be returning to this one as it really is one of the funniest I've played in awhile.

Thanks!

Mike

Mike,

Thank you for the kind words.

1. The nits needed to be picked! Great suggestions, both have been acted on, with a few other reference points added as well.

2. Also Added King Abdullah I Air Base and moved the E-3Gs there and added two (2) E-8C JSTARS and two (2) RC-135W Rivet Joint aircraft there as well. They should help with the overnight target discrimination and thus possibly allow some aircraft to launch a second strike.

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 2/1/2021 12:23:35 AM >

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 1/31/2021 2:34:34 AM

schweggy

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Did you check the Syrian side to see if it was "computer only?" I think an earlier version had that side as a player option. Saw mention of a marker for Tafass... that'd be helpful. Lastly, is the Free Syrian Army supposed to be "blind?"

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Post #: 5

RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 1/31/2021 2:57:15 AM

BeirutDude

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quote:

ORIGINAL: schweggy

Did you check the Syrian side to see if it was "computer only?" I think an earlier version had that side as a player option. Saw mention of a marker for Tafass... that'd be helpful. Lastly, is the Free Syrian Army supposed to be "blind?"

Marker was added for last update.

Set the Syrian side to computer only and FSA being blind to normal. Thanks, will be on next update.

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 1/31/2021 2:58:48 AM >

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 1/31/2021 1:55:17 PM

BDukes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

Updated Scenario Here 01-2-30-2021B

quote:

ORIGINAL: BDukes

Hi BeirutDude

Great scenario. I don't want to spoil it but lots of good terrain and weapons/loadout choices to be made. You have space to really get creative and I think this is a great scenario now. Scale is perfect for a days worth of play.

Couple of nitpicks:
F-16F's and B's are usually trainer versions. The E's and A's are likely to be more numerous. Not even sure what impact that has as I don't think agility scores change because of that.
Could you mark the city of Tafas with a reference point? Ended up google earthing and marking it. Not exactly a big thing, but nice to have.

That's it. I'll be returning to this one as it really is one of the funniest I've played in awhile.

Thanks!

Mike

Mike,

Thank you for the kind words.

1. The nits needed to be picked! Great suggestions, both have been acted on, with a few other reference points added as well.

2. Also Added King Abdullah I Air Base and moved the E-3Gs there and added two (2) E-8C JSTARS and two (2) RC-135W Rivet Joint aircraft there as well. They should help with the overnight target discrimination and thus possibly allow some aircraft to launch a second strike.

Great thanks.

Just to give you a little more feedback on what I did.

I found the AREOS Recon pod loadout on the Rafale to be my go-to scout. Areos is a really good sensor and with terrain masking, the range and room to move it worked out well. I'm not sure if Gray Eagles or the Reapers drones would have done so given their speed. I tasked 4 Rafale's with this role and they spearheaded the F-15E's which due to their CBU-105's could wipe out a lot of equipment per bomb.

My other thought is I was able to manipulate the Syrian CAPS a bit to run them low on fuel. This is especially true of the Mig-25 which has a relatively high burn rate although it was awesome they were included. You might consider maybe adding a couple to an intercept mission to burn and shoot at things once the shooting starts.

The real gotcha's you put in there was definitely SAM selection and placement. I did recce and map out the position of the higher end SAMS but combined with the SA-2/SA-3 and high-alt SA-5 they killed a lot of my aircraft. Definitely need to better plot out making my hole in and out of the target area next go around. Again I think the CBU-103's and 105's would have helped clear the SA-2/3 leaving the HARM shooters to bang out the higher-end SAMS.

The B-52's were ok. The MALDS are cool but you can't launch them at low-altitude for some reason (I'll put in a ticket for that) so I had to pop-up to shoot them. I think it is me but I also need to work on employing them well. I know it's a long day so no salvos but getting the timing right to cover your inbound raids is a little tough to eyeball. Less so with the Mald J's which JAM. JASSM awesome as usually..hehe

Hope this helps. Thanks again!

Mike

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Post #: 7

RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 1/31/2021 9:49:55 PM

T Rav

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BD,

I downloaded the scenario and it looks like a lot of fun. I'll wait for the next update for the FSA to get "normal" then download again and get started.

Thanks for all the work you put into these,

T Rav

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Post #: 8

RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/1/2021 12:15:09 AM

BeirutDude

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So I took a stand off approach and the munitions I used were largely PGMs. In fact, I loaded half the Jordanian F-16s with 500lb LDGP gravity bombs but never used them as I couldn't degrade the Syrian ADA enough to allow them to operate without incurring heavy losses and costing me points. So my initial standoff strike was against the ADA system, then I reloaded for an attack on the artillery systems. I didn't destroy as many systems as I hoped but I did degrade some others. I'm thinking greater than 50% loss to an artillery unit would be a mission kill so I'm considering giving points for damaging them at 66% damage.

I did loose one French Rafale C on a recon mission. I wouldn't have lost it, except I lost control of it with the Defensive Maneuvering and the fact that the A/I flies TOWARD the SAMs at times and you just can't stop it! (I assume the crew was picked up by a Jordanian helicopter as they were in the open desert.

)

175 "PGMs" launched on Syria, that's ball park to the U.S. JASSM/Tomahawk Strike a few years ago.

SIDE: NATO/GCC
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x Rafale C

EXPENDITURES:
------------------
6x ADM-160C MALD-J [Stand-In OECM]
6x ADM-160B MALD [Active RF]
68x AGM-158A JASSM [Penetrator]
51x AGM-88C HARM
52x SCALP EG
22x MICA IR
37x AIM-120D AMRAAM P3I.4
55x AGM-154C-1 JSOW [BROACH]
9x AN/ALE-50 [RT-1646/ALE]
48x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
4x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Dual Spectral]
1x AIM-9S Sidewinder
6x AIM-120B AMRAAM
27x MIM-104E Patriot PAC-2 GEM+
1x MIM-104F Patriot PAC-3 MSE
5x MICA EM
1x Meteor
7x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]

SIDE: Syria
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
15x MiG-21bis Fishbed N
16x MiG-25P Foxbat A
1x Radar (Chair Back B [9S36])
1x Radar (Dog Ear [9S80])
1x Radar (Long Track [P-40])
1x Radar (Snow Drift [9S18M1])
25x 122mm Sakr MLRS [Cargo]
3x 122mm/36 2S1 M1974 Gvozdika [Cargo]
18x BM-27 Uragan MLRS [Cargo]
6x SA-11 Gadfly [9A38] TELAR [Cargo]
3x SA-11 Gadfly [9A39] LLV [Cargo]
6x SA-13 Gopher [9A35M2] TELAR 2 [Cargo]
6x SA-17 Grizzly [9A310M1-2] TELAR [Cargo]
3x SA-17 Grizzly [9A39M1-2] LLV [Cargo]
1x SA-2d Guideline Mod 2 Single Rail [Cargo]
11x SA-3b Goa Quad Rail [Cargo]
22x SA-6a Gainful [2P25] TEL [Cargo]
4x SA-7a Grail [9K32 Strela-2] MANPADS [Cargo]
12x SA-9b Gaskin [BRDM-2] TEL 2 [Cargo]
2x Vehicle (Fan Song E [SNR-75M3]) [Cargo]
2x Vehicle (Flat Face B [P-19]) [Cargo]
1x Vehicle (Low Blow [SNR-125]) [Cargo]
7x Vehicle (Straight Flush [1S91]) [Cargo]

EXPENDITURES:
------------------
45x SA-11 Gadfly [9M38M1]
16x SA-10b Grumble [5V55RUD]
48x SA-2d Guideline Mod 2 [S-75 Volga, 20D / V-755]
87x SA-3b Goa [5V27, V-601P]
42x SA-5c Gammon [5V28M5]
151x SA-6a Gainful [3M9]
48x SA-17 Grizzly [9M317]
8x AA-6 Acrid A [R-40R, SARH]
3x AA-6 Acrid B [R-40T, IR]
14x SA-13 Gopher [9M35]
2x HT-16PGJ [9M313]
1x SA-9b Gaskin [9M31M]
1x AA-8 Aphid [R-60]

SIDE: Free Syrian Army
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------

EXPENDITURES:
------------------

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 2/1/2021 12:39:49 AM >

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Post #: 9

RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/1/2021 12:19:52 AM

BeirutDude

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Then again, only two Syrian artillery units had better than 50% damage, so might not be worth the effort. Might need to lower a "Triumph" to 600 VPs.

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/1/2021 12:30:52 AM

BeirutDude

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Update below

1. Lowered "Triumph" to 600 VP but also raised "Disaster" to 000 VP.

2. Tweaked the Patriot missile's WRA so they wouldn't automatically fire into Syria. So you might want to increase their range when hostilities begin.

Mike, 8 MiG 25s were already alert birds, that is about 1/2 of the MiG-25s in the scenario, so I left them as is.

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 2/7/2021 12:49:07 PM >

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/1/2021 10:30:04 PM

BeirutDude

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quote:

Thanks for all the work you put into these,

Thank you, your comments are appreciated very much! To be honest I'm considering packing in C:MO scenario design, so thanks.

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Post #: 12

RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/2/2021 9:58:12 PM

BDukes

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quote:

To be honest I'm considering packing in C:MO scenario design, so thanks.

Am I reading this right? Why?

Mike

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Post #: 13

RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/4/2021 1:43:23 PM

BeirutDude

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BDukes

quote:

To be honest I'm considering packing in C:MO scenario design, so thanks.

Am I reading this right? Why?

Mike

Personal issues

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Post #: 14

RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/4/2021 8:01:51 PM

BDukes

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Sorry to hear about that BD. Wish you well!

Mike

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/5/2021 6:09:34 AM

Kushan04

Posts: 541
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Popped in to say I'm going to be playing this on my real-time CMO stream on Saturday.

Always enjoyed your scenarios BeirutDude. Take care of yourself. Wish you well.

Kushan

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/5/2021 12:45:57 PM

BeirutDude

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Thanks, do you have a link to watch it?

Not saying I won't be back, but right now I need a break.

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/5/2021 1:40:00 PM

Kushan04

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Here you go: https://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup/. Will be starting around 10am PST and going until whenever.

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/5/2021 5:49:59 PM

BeirutDude

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Thanks, will try to tune in Don't think the wife has any plans tomorrow.

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/7/2021 12:58:39 PM

BeirutDude

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Update 02-07-2021

So based on the feedback from Kushan's play trough yesterday.

1. Tweaked the airbases and moved the support aircraft and B-52Hs to (a new single unit) Al Udeid Air Base, Qatar
2. Kept King Abdullah I AB (as a single unit Emergency Divert field).
3. Tweaked the Israel "No Navigation Zone" so its still accurate, but not quite as tight in the Canyon SW of Tafass.
4. Added the ZSU-23-4's the 4th Armored Division would actually have (how did I miss that????).
5. Added KC-10A tankers at Al Udeid Air Base, Qatar
6. Fixed the font color in the briefings.
7. Added a few surprises.

Thanks, Kushan that was awesome!!!!!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 2/7/2021 1:04:30 PM >

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/7/2021 1:05:19 PM

BeirutDude

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The new base...

Attachment (1)

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/8/2021 3:56:18 AM

Kushan04

Posts: 541
Joined: 6/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

Update 02-07-2021

So based on the feedback from Kushan's play trough yesterday.

1. Tweaked the airbases and moved the support aircraft and B-52Hs to (a new single unit) Al Udeid Air Base, Qatar
2. Kept King Abdullah I AB (as a single unit Emergency Divert field).
3. Tweaked the Israel "No Navigation Zone" so its still accurate, but not quite as tight in the Canyon SW of Tafass.
4. Added the ZSU-23-4's the 4th Armored Division would actually have (how did I miss that????).
5. Added KC-10A tankers at Al Udeid Air Base, Qatar
6. Fixed the font color in the briefings.
7. Added a few surprises.

Thanks, Kushan that was awesome!!!!!

That was quick! I just made the suggestions yesterday.

Been busy today so haven't had a chance to try the changes out but I'll try to get to it tomorrow.

Thank you for coming and hanging out. I had a blast. Great job with the scenario, I really enjoyed it.

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/21/2021 11:18:29 AM

boogabooga

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I'm enjoying the scenario.

One piece of feedback that I would give would be to set the Syrian air ROE to "free" once hostilities start. Would make the MALDs more useful and to be fair, how much commercial air traffic goes through Syria these days? I would assume that they would fire on any airspace violators. They are at war, and have been for a decade. Alternatively, allow Syria to auto side ID, or set an exclusion zone for them.

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Post #: 23

RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/23/2021 12:54:07 AM

gregb41352

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"ahank you, your comments are appreciated very much! To be honest I'm considering packing in C:MO scenario design, so thanks."

This is really bad. I hope things work out for you BeirutDude. Your scenarios are legendary.
s

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Post #: 24

RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/23/2021 12:44:50 PM

BeirutDude

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gregb41352

"ahank you, your comments are appreciated very much! To be honest I'm considering packing in C:MO scenario design, so thanks."

This is really bad. I hope things work out for you BeirutDude. Your scenarios are legendary.
s

I just needed a little break. To be honest, was a bit frustrated, but realized I had to just blow off the issues I had and move forward.

Thank you for your kind comments on the scenarios, glad people are enjoying them.

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/23/2021 12:46:16 PM

BeirutDude

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quote:

ORIGINAL: boogabooga

I'm enjoying the scenario.

One piece of feedback that I would give would be to set the Syrian air ROE to "free" once hostilities start. Would make the MALDs more useful and to be fair, how much commercial air traffic goes through Syria these days? I would assume that they would fire on any airspace violators. They are at war, and have been for a decade. Alternatively, allow Syria to auto side ID, or set an exclusion zone for them.

Hmmmm, good comments. I've been thinking about playing with the Doctrine/WRA on this one a bit more so will look at it.

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Post #: 26

RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 2/23/2021 10:47:32 PM

BeirutDude

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Updated 02-23-2021

quote:

ORIGINAL: boogabooga

I'm enjoying the scenario.

One piece of feedback that I would give would be to set the Syrian air ROE to "free" once hostilities start. Would make the MALDs more useful and to be fair, how much commercial air traffic goes through Syria these days? I would assume that they would fire on any airspace violators. They are at war, and have been for a decade. Alternatively, allow Syria to auto side ID, or set an exclusion zone for them.

Updated based on a couple of things...
1. boogabooga's suggestion above.
2. Gave the Ground Units an opportunity target command so they might be a bit more interactive.
3. Looked at it and the Syrians had entirely too many SA-6's
4. Moved SAM units to provide a more layered/Integrated Air Defense system. Should find the Syrian SAMs are more able to support each other.
5. Major adjustments to Syrian Aircraft and SAM doctrine and WRA.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 2/23/2021 10:53:08 PM >

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RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 4/15/2021 1:32:37 AM

boogabooga

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Spoiler Alert:

This scenario has a surprise ABM engagement when a group of Syrian theater ballistic missiles all take a pot shot at the player's airfield. This has gotten a bit more complicated in the latest public beta updates where the ABM logic has changed. Here is how I was able to defend my airfield with only two getting through and (luckily) no planes lost on the ground:

-PAC-2s are about useless in this role now. Unfortunately, they are still the default weapon for some reason. Go to the WRA of the Patriot battery. For PAC-2 doctrine against Guided Weapon-Supersonic (NOT Guided Weapon-Ballistic- apparently, these particular RVs count just as 'supersonic') set to DO NOT USE.

-Set both of the PAC-3 doctrines against Guided Weapon-Supersonic to 1 round. The PAC-3s have a pretty good hit rate and there are not enough data channels to send two missiles against each target, so I've found it best to assign one each. You will keep launching more as they hit and free up a channel.

Good Luck!

< Message edited by boogabooga -- 4/15/2021 1:35:53 AM >

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Post #: 28

RE: PT, Tafass, Syria, 2021 (ongoing Syrian Operation) - 4/15/2021 3:24:56 AM

elenian

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This looks like an interesting scenario. A minor issue I've encountered so far (not sure if this is working as designed) is that the Syrian artillery immediately bombards the city of Tafass, generating several thousand (!) damage and weapon damage reports and generally tanking the simulation speed?

EDIT: I just realized that this scenario is some months old, so feel free to ignore above!

< Message edited by elenian -- 4/15/2021 3:32:55 AM >

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Post #: 29