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Custom Star Maps in DW2

 
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Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/28/2021 8:12:33 AM   
Osito


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I saw a post from Erik saying that the design and editing of starmaps in DW2 is quite similar to DW1. In fact, editing maps in DW1 was (to put it mildly) not the most interesting activity you could possibly do. I wonder whether the process has been improved in any way to allow the implementation of large custom made maps to be easier?

In DW1, you could load custom maps when starting a new game. I can't remember whether this was in DW1 at release, and wonder whether it will be in DW2 at release?

In DW1, if you made a custom starmap, you had to include in the 'theme' any mods you wanted it to run with. So you couldn't load a custom star map and a separate mod at the same time. Has this been addressed at all in DW2? Will we be able to load a custom star map with any combination of mods, or will the game keep the same 'theme' system from DW1?

Finally, will it be possible to create custom solar systems to run with the empires, so that the game can be made to start with empires having specific solar systems?

I think there will be a lot of interest for features like this from players and modders. Many players like to play in real world starmaps, or in starmaps from fictional universes.

< Message edited by Osito -- 1/28/2021 8:15:27 AM >


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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/28/2021 9:28:06 AM   
Miletkir


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That's also a topic of interest to me and my little ongoing project.

Say, if you have a table with star names, spectral classes and coordinates, could you somehow feed it to a DW2 file and generate a galaxy based on that?

(I'd have put this in the FAQ thread but since Osito started a new one, I'm asking here...)

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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/28/2021 10:26:41 AM   
Osito


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir

That's also a topic of interest to me and my little ongoing project.

Say, if you have a table with star names, spectral classes and coordinates, could you somehow feed it to a DW2 file and generate a galaxy based on that?

(I'd have put this in the FAQ thread but since Osito started a new one, I'm asking here...)


In DW1, to create a custom map, every custom star system has to be individually placed in the editor. It is extremely time consuming, and differs from Stellaris, say, in which you can use a spreadsheet to upload the data to a modded text file.

Edit: The biggest problem with custom maps in DW1, as I alluded to in my initial post, is that you have to include all the mods you want with the custom map. You could not take the custom map use it to set up a new game with any other mod. This made custom maps less useful than they could have been.

< Message edited by Osito -- 1/28/2021 10:33:54 AM >


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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/28/2021 10:56:52 AM   
Miletkir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Osito

In DW1, to create a custom map, every custom star system has to be individually placed in the editor. It is extremely time consuming, and differs from Stellaris, say, in which you can use a spreadsheet to upload the data to a modded text file.



Yes, which is why I'd like to know if DW2 will have that kind of flexibility.

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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/28/2021 11:47:25 AM   
Osito


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Based on comments Erik has already made, I don't think that will be a possibility on launch. I'm just hopeful that the existing functionality might have been improved a bit, and particularly the issue about mixing custom maps with different mods. If that has not been addressed, then custom maps are not really going to be a thing except possibly with total conversion mods. Even then, it might be a bit restricting not to be able to run other mods with them.

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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/28/2021 12:52:56 PM   
Grognerd_INC


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It's a great question Osito!

I think about what I did'nt ask and I wonder if the new maps will be totally 3D like the rest of the game. This might be procedurally driven and a map editor or any kind of messing with the map might be in the very hard to do category.


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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/28/2021 5:38:41 PM   
SirHoraceHarkness


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Afaik Erik responded to this in another thread and said that map editing will be exactly like in DWU via the in game editor. So no system templates yet for map generation or a stand alone map maker. He did say that future expansions might have such a feature. Remember that the team is tiny and that just making a base DW2 with the features already in DWU is going to be a fairly monumental task. But they did start with over a decade of refinement to start with so this time around expansions should be much easier to pull off especially if they don't involve copious amounts of art assets. If sales are good then expect expansions fairly quickly. If not so hot then the funds won't be there to go hog wild.

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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/28/2021 6:28:51 PM   
Miletkir


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Erik was answering a question about map editing, whereas this is about galaxy generation from the ground up. That one precluded the other wasn't obvious to me.

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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/28/2021 6:30:41 PM   
Osito


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirHoraceHarkness

Afaik Erik responded to this in another thread and said that map editing will be exactly like in DWU via the in game editor. So no system templates yet for map generation or a stand alone map maker. He did say that future expansions might have such a feature. Remember that the team is tiny and that just making a base DW2 with the features already in DWU is going to be a fairly monumental task. But they did start with over a decade of refinement to start with so this time around expansions should be much easier to pull off especially if they don't involve copious amounts of art assets. If sales are good then expect expansions fairly quickly. If not so hot then the funds won't be there to go hog wild.


If I read the same post as you, I didn't interpret it as meaning the editor would be exactly the same as DW1, but it may be that is what was meant.

However, my main issue is about the way that the mods (or 'themes', as they were called) work together. In DW1 a custom map would not work with another mod, unless it was incorporated into the mod during map creation. In addition, different mods didn't easily work together. I'm interested whether this aspect of DW2 is the same as DW1.

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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/28/2021 6:44:08 PM   
SirHoraceHarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Osito

If I read the same post as you, I didn't interpret it as meaning the editor would be exactly the same as DW1, but it may be that is what was meant.

However, my main issue is about the way that the mods (or 'themes', as they were called) work together. In DW1 a custom map would not work with another mod, unless it was incorporated into the mod during map creation. In addition, different mods didn't easily work together. I'm interested whether this aspect of DW2 is the same as DW1.


Everything I am seeing released so far points to more or less a direct port of DWU into a new engine with all the annoying or unfinished stuff getting fixed and some aspects being expanded upon like the ship design and uniqueness of the races etc. I think that stuff like this will be for later expansions especially if the big mods jump over and drive up interest. Star wars empire at war just got a huge dev update after a decade specifically for mod makers since the popularity of their mods were driving fairly brisk sales of the game and there was a nice influx of cash. At this point I think that expansive mod support is almost a given to give a game the best chance at a long successful life.

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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/28/2021 7:06:15 PM   
Grognerd_INC


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One thing I can't tell from the video's (even slowed down) is if the in-game star maps are 2D or true 3D. Anyone know anything on this?

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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/29/2021 10:04:36 AM   
Ranbir


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It is a 3D map but fixed perspective.

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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/29/2021 3:42:03 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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I think this is going to be best answered in the future as the modding side of things is better documented and finalized. I'll add this to the list of modding questions to ask Elliot.

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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/29/2021 7:39:44 PM   
Miletkir


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Thanks Erik, looking forward to knowing more about this.

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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/29/2021 7:57:16 PM   
SirHoraceHarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I think this is going to be best answered in the future as the modding side of things is better documented and finalized. I'll add this to the list of modding questions to ask Elliot.


I think the easiest way to conceptualize what level of modding access will eventually be needed at least until the mod teams start dropping by and giving input is will the game be able to import say a star trek or star wars ship(used these as an example as most sci fi is derivative of these two and share much of the functions any sci fi fleet mod would need) and replicate its functions and effects and sounds and behaviors. Also the games ui would be fully open to redesign so more lore friendly ui can be built? Custom maps where you can make templates for systems and other areas would be a given too since most like to recreate their franchises galaxy in some form. These would be the basics.

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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/30/2021 10:11:02 AM   
Osito


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I think this is going to be best answered in the future as the modding side of things is better documented and finalized. I'll add this to the list of modding questions to ask Elliot.


Ok, thanks, Erik.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ranbir

It is a 3D map but fixed perspective.


How do you know it's a 3D map? Have Matrix said that somewhere, or are you inferring that from the available screnshots and videos?

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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/30/2021 5:27:31 PM   
SirHoraceHarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Osito

How do you know it's a 3D map? Have Matrix said that somewhere, or are you inferring that from the available screnshots and videos?


Can't find the reply but one of the devs, elliot I think, said the map can be rotated so that implies its in 3d. If you have played sins of a solar empire I think that is mostly how the 3d side will be handled from the footage of the small fleet battle. In a lot of ways sins and dw share common mechanics though sins was 3d first.

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RE: Custom Star Maps in DW2 - 1/31/2021 4:31:40 PM   
Grognerd_INC


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Osito, found a nice move from RECONS group about stars within 25 parsecs (81.5 light years - RECONS is Research Consortium on Nearby Stars)

RECONS 25 Parsec database

Some info found in the video:
O Stars none, B stars 1, A stars 29, F stars 141, G stars 244, K stars 550, M stars 1093.
Total star systems 2167 (real close to the DW2 upper limit); Objects 3069
Giants 105, White Dwarfs 137, Neutron Stars and Black Holes 0, Brown Dwarfs 98, Planets 101, Sub Dwarfs 4, Pre Main Sequence 31.
Singles 1533, Binaries 509, Triples 102, Quadruples 19, Quintuples 4, Sextuples 1

So far Gaia has not been converted into a useful database for layman mapmakers like us. The data is there however, 2 million stars!

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