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Fuel (Oil) weight is not 0 ?

 
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Fuel (Oil) weight is not 0 ? - 1/26/2021 1:20:03 PM   
BlueTemplar


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The Manual states :
(5.11.1.7. weIGht of CarGo, p310)
quote:

Type : Fuel
Weight : None
Clarifying Comment : Pipes are assumed

(Which seemed weird to me, because then it would seem that Fuel (Oil) isn't THAT different from Energy...)

But I clearly seem to have issues with receiving fuel due to low logistic points (as stated in the unit supply details).

Is the manual wrong, and my intuition right ?

If so, what is the actual weight of fuel (oil) ? 1 ?

EDIT : I'm not the only one being confused here :
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4831217&mpage=1&key=�
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RE: Fuel (Oil) weight is not 0 ? - 1/26/2021 1:28:52 PM   
AgentFransis

 

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Pretty sure that only applies to zone<->SHQ transfer. You can't run pipes to your field units.

(in reply to BlueTemplar)
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RE: Fuel (Oil) weight is not 0 ? - 1/26/2021 1:53:47 PM   
BlueTemplar


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But I can run cables ?

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RE: Fuel (Oil) weight is not 0 ? - 1/26/2021 7:57:59 PM   
BlueTemplar


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Oh, wait :

quote:

5.11. loGIstICs
Your Logistical Network connects your Zone Cities and your Units with
your SHQs.
You need to be aware there are two separate logistical systems.
§
The Logistical Network, which spreads out Logistical Points from
your Logistical Sources (Truck Station, Rail Station) over your Road
Network. To have a continuous Logistical Network, the Logistical
Points reach of the different Sources need to overlap.
§
The Operational Logistics of each individual Unit or HQ, which
picks up its supplies from the nearest road Hex that is inside your
Logistical Network.


So maybe fuel weight is 0 on the Logistic Network (=road/rail network), but non-zero (1?) on the Operational Network ?

What if the unit in question is on a road, but uses non-zero Operational Logistics hexes, picking up items further up the road? Or has Operational Logistics traveling for some time on a road, as can often be seen happening ?

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RE: Fuel (Oil) weight is not 0 ? - 1/26/2021 8:11:26 PM   
zgrssd

 

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I think fuel and energy has 0 weight between Zones - and thus for supplying the Logistics assets - but does have weight when being send to units, given that you do not really have power cables lying all accross the countryside.

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RE: Fuel (Oil) weight is not 0 ? - 1/26/2021 8:39:45 PM   
BlueTemplar


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Oh, wait it is indeed the other way around : Energy seems to need (at least Operational) Logistic points too, otherwise not receiving all the requested energy (like I just saw) (while plenty at hex-connected SHQ) wouldn't make any sense !

Crap, and I happily put a quite bigger engine on my Tank models thinking that fuel logistics wouldn't be an issue with an electric engine ! No wonder that I'm having supply issues despite a pretty close front !

< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 1/26/2021 8:41:25 PM >

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RE: Fuel (Oil) weight is not 0 ? - 1/26/2021 8:41:22 PM   
Soar_Slitherine

 

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I do not believe shipping fuel to units requires any logistics points. If I examine my used logistics points, the logistics consumed by my tanks is in line with the expected expenditure from their received ammo and food, with any logistics point cost for the hundreds of fuel they also received nowhere to be seen.

EDIT: Being out of optimal range for operational logistics does reduce supplies received even for supply types that do not have weight.

< Message edited by Soar_Slitherine -- 1/26/2021 8:43:56 PM >

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RE: Fuel (Oil) weight is not 0 ? - 1/26/2021 8:50:13 PM   
redrum68

 

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My experience is that fuel and energy always has 0 logistics weight but as Soar_Slitherine mentioned you can receive reduced amounts if you are not in 100% logistics range. Should be fairly easy to test if you just create a bunch of tanks that use tons of fuel and empty them.

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RE: Fuel (Oil) weight is not 0 ? - 1/26/2021 9:01:15 PM   
zgrssd

 

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By my knowledge:
Only Fuel, Water, Eletricity and IP between Zones travels for free.

Water is needed so your food production does not stall.
Energy and Fuel so your Logistics assets do not stall.
And IP is considered a "intangible".

However all my information says that Fuel and Electricity to units still costs full logistics.
Note that operational supply can limit how much supplies actually reach the unit - except for food wich will always be delivered to 100%, if there is any connection.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 1/26/2021 9:02:16 PM >

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RE: Fuel (Oil) weight is not 0 ? - 1/26/2021 9:52:29 PM   
redrum68

 

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Below shows a quick test with used logistics points on, where I have a light tank that receives 4 food and 135 fuel. You can see it pulls it from the above dirt road which has 508 used logistics points and then the next hex after the split has 504 logistics used. This would indicate that only 4 logistics points were used in that direction for the 4 food as the rest is down the road to the east.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Fuel (Oil) weight is not 0 ? - 1/26/2021 10:05:04 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68

Below shows a quick test with used logistics points on, where I have a light tank that receives 4 food and 135 fuel. You can see it pulls it from the above dirt road which has 508 used logistics points and then the next hex after the split has 504 logistics used. This would indicate that only 4 logistics points were used in that direction for the 4 food as the rest is down the road to the east.




Maybe it was changed again. And it would be really good if it was changed, as unit fuel and energy are pretty big consumption items for Logistics.

However the part where the Tanks is right on the road might have allowed it to use "piping". Maybe the result would be different if it parked 1 hex away fromthe road, so operational logistics is in the calculation?

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RE: Fuel (Oil) weight is not 0 ? - 1/26/2021 10:14:14 PM   
BlueTemplar


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Oh, ok, I assumed that operational supply worked by just depleting points (like strategic truck points), and the Operational Logistics range colors were calculated depending on the number of projected Strategic Logistic points for next turn, but I guess that would be too expensive to calculate, and the colors are just drawn depending on the range from remaining strategic logistic points THIS turn ?

But actually (for non-food), only a fraction of points gets picked up, depending on how "far" they were picked up ?

And if (non-fuel/energy) points picked up deplete the strategic logistic points available on that hex, and start trying to pick up from a farther hex, then fuel/energy pick up efficiency too will get reduced during the many steps of the logistics phase in-between turns ?

That might explain some of the weirdness with the operational logistics color zones moving around that I've seen...

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RE: Fuel (Oil) weight is not 0 ? - 1/26/2021 10:37:08 PM   
zgrssd

 

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Okay, I could veryfy it:
5 Motorized Infantry Batallions + SHQ + 20 Militia units needed 130 Food, 142 Fuel, 0 Ammo, 0 Replenishments.
Only 130 Points were used.

However there were 424 avalible, so even if the game forgot to properly track the fuel consumption of logistics it might have made it through.

As for Operational Supply:
It is really just some extra grace-space for Units.
If you look at the Terrain Movement modifiers, you find a value for "Organic Supply".
Asume each unit has 100 "Oreganic Supply AP" availible to get to a road with a good supply connection. They do take closer roads if all is equal, but they can stretch it to the limit if that is only way to get a decent amount.
Operatinional Logistisc primarily acts as a bottleneck.

If you toggle the "Show Op. Log." viewmode, you can see where it trails off.

(in reply to BlueTemplar)
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