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Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events System

 
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Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events System - 1/22/2021 8:11:30 AM   
RedLancer


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Those of you who have played WiTW will be aware of the East Front option. This modelled the German commitment to the war with the Soviets (and to Norway) and allowed the German player to phase transfers between those sectors and the war against the Allies as they wished. Extract too much and the Soviets advanced more quickly, send more than historical and you had to the chance to extend the game into the summer of 1945 – picking up VP as you did so.

Well WiTE2 radically expands this concept and covers the totality of the ground and air commitment for Nazi Germany and its Allies and the Soviet Union. It does this using two related concepts, Theatre Boxes and Events.

Theatre Boxes

That wider war is divided into Theatres and represented as abstract boxes. Each has a ‘combat intensity’ that is used to determine likely casualties (and thus the need for replacements and so on) and a desired garrison level. For the Axis these cover Western Europe, Italy, North Africa, the Balkans, Finland, Norway and anti-partisan operations in the Soviet Union. For the Soviets they are Northern, Trans Caucasus and Far East. In addition both sides have an abstract (but very important) ‘Reserve’ Theatre.

The Theatre boxes are usually not shown but can be readily accessed from the jump map or the mouse (or hot keys). When accessed, they are roughly laid out geographically but the Axis reserve is centred over Berlin and the Soviet one is placed in Siberia.

This shows the Western Europe theatre early in the game (t12).



How much you can see and how it is displayed will depend on the zoom level you have chosen but that is a typical screen. Few things to note, as you’d expect at this stage of the war, there is no Ground Combat and the air combat is very low intensity. Come 1943 and that will be a lot higher creating a steady stream of losses for the Luftwaffe. Once the Allies invade France, the ground combat becomes intense, again generating losses that need to be replenished – possibly at the expense of your forces fighting the Soviets.

Note the percentages next to the ground and air sections, those indicate if you meet the baseline required garrison. We’ll come back to what this means below.
If you open the ground tab, you see the actual units in the Theatre.



Again, your zoom level will influence what can be seen but clicking on any of those formations will open the standard unit tab you are used to from WiTE1 and WiTW.

As a note, you can’t see your opponent’s theatre boxes but you do know, from the OOB tab, how many men, guns and planes they have allocated to their theatres as:



So this is the OOB screen for the same turn, note it repeats the numbers in Western Europe (you can actually expand that entry to see the individual units as above … you can also review these units using the Commander’s Report). All you know about the Soviets is that they have some 1.5 million men in their non-reserve theatres (the difference between on-map+reserve and total forces).

Managing the Theatres

You have two options:

In one, you accept the scripted pattern of moves into and out of the Theatres as happened historically. Replacements and new equipment will flow automatically to the theatres (if available) and this is one way that on-map performance influences off map performance. Lose too much in Russia and its not available to replenish your forces in North Africa (and the reverse is true, minimise your losses and those other sectors may be stronger). Finally you can voluntarily send extra units (ground and air) to a Theatre to build up your forces (you can’t reclaim these but it’s a good strategy).

The alternative is you take control. Scripted historical transfers will still happen but you can step in and cancel them. You can also withdraw some units for service elsewhere or swap units as you wish. There are a few constraints, you can’t send the Hungarians to fight in North Africa and you can’t reduce a theatre to below 90% of its requirements (ie the value in the first image) by removing units (you can go below this by not sending reinforcements).

So the first view is that this is an excellent idea to reduce everything else to the bare minimum and throw all those assets at the Soviets (or the Germans). Well … that is a quick way to lose the war (unless it pays off very quickly).

Victory Points and Events

If you are below the threshold values, there is a chance in a given turn you will lose 1 VP and 1 Admin Pt for every such failure. So Western Europe could cost you 3 VP per turn (the three categories are calculated separately). An incautious German player could be losing 10+ VP per turn as a result, so if you want to under-invest in the wider war, you had better win the struggle against the Soviet Union very quickly.

Now the reverse is true, if you are over the threshold values, you gain a steady stream of VP – note in loki100’s AAR he notes he has gained more VP this way than for early capture of German held cities.

This is also one way the Events system comes into play. Each of the other campaigns has a track of events that fire more or less historically reflecting the big shifts in that theatre.
So for example:



If you are below the garrison thresholds, these start to occur earlier, if you are over the thresholds, they can be delayed. Since North Africa in the end leads to the invasion of Italy that has consequences. Being behind in Western Europe may trigger an early Second Front. If the Soviets are ahead in their Northern Theatre, there is the possibility of an early Finnish collapse.

The National Reserve

While this is a theatre it has a very different role to the others. It is under full player control all the time (there are a few minimal restrictions on how you use it) and can be used as you see fit.
Units that are destroyed and can now be rebuilt are assigned to it as are many freshly raised formations. This allows you to control how fast such formations can draw on your available elements such as infantry squads, tanks and guns. If you place a formation to ‘REFIT’ and it is in the reserve it has a priority on available elements as it builds up. This is a double edged sword. It is the way to quickly outfit fresh formations but put too many on refit at any one time and your on map formations will suffer for a lack of replacements and reinforcements.

For air units, the reserve is where you can train up formations with low experience pilots, if you wish using obsolete planes, before being deployed to combat.

In addition to being a key part of your unit production approach, the reserve can be just that: a strategic reserve. This is probably of more use to the Soviets but leaving the equivalent of several armies in the reserve (with their HQs) can give you an emergency force to respond to a sudden disaster.

While the default is that units from the reserve arrive on the map at Moscow or Berlin you can alter this to be any rail hex, more than 10 hexes from the enemy, in territory you controlled on 22 June 1941.

Events

There are various types of these. Some are just for flavour, picking up on events elsewhere in the war:



As we have discussed, some affect the progress and intensity of the war in the various Theatre Boxes, such as:



Note that this may also amend the garrison requirements and the combat intensity in a given Theatre.

Some report the gain or loss of VP (again as above):



Some award one side or the other one-off (or short term) allocations of manpower or administrative points:



Some are used to model the Allied strategic bombing offensive:



And some open up new event chains when particular conditions are met:



The in-game editor can be used to create these, setting criteria and likelihood and the consequences. This is one of the ways in which WiTE2 is far more moddable than WiTE1. You can use these events to create all sorts of conditional events as you design scenarios (or amend those supplied with the game).


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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 1/22/2021 3:08:59 PM   
Asid


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Thank you for posting this Redlancer.

Regards

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 1/22/2021 3:42:26 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

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Nice stuff!

How far off historical can things go? Is it possible to defeat the Western Allies? I'm guessing that an Axis player in a position to send enough combat power west to make this feasible will have already won the 'conventional' game vs the Soviets. If the Soviet player takes enough out of the Far East can the Japanese attack them and start causing casualties on that front also?

Also I'm sure you are in the process of ironing these out but there is a typo in the D-Day event text 'Italy ground requirment' and as a question of style I'd probably take out 'touristy' from the Tit-for-Tat one.

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 1/22/2021 5:17:23 PM   
Joel Billings


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Indeed, we are fixing typos now, but I've sent your items to the person working on that now. You should sign up to become a tester as we will probably have one more small beta test group let in next month.

As for how far off, the Germans can't defeat the Western Allies, just delay their progress. The Japanese won't attack, but the Soviets can lose a lot of victory points and AP points if they stay low on their garrisons. You aren't allowed to remove units such that it would drop you below 90% of a garrison requirement, so you there is a limit to what you can do. BTW, there are casualties that take place in the TBs, and the level of combat in each will go up and down based on events.

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 1/23/2021 6:43:26 PM   
MechFO

 

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Is National Morale tied to events or to the year? Would it be possible to tie NM to losses via events (ex. after 1 Mio Men lost, reduce NM by 5 points)?

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 1/23/2021 7:06:05 PM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedLancer


Each of the other campaigns has a track of events that fire more or less historically reflecting the big shifts in that theatre


Meaning D-Day will be in 1944 anyway for example?

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You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 1/23/2021 9:19:01 PM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

Is National Morale tied to events or to the year? Would it be possible to tie NM to losses via events (ex. after 1 Mio Men lost, reduce NM by 5 points)?


the events system opens up all sorts of conditional rules. the core game sticks to the structured NM changes for a variety of reasons but player modified scenarios open up all sorts of variants

quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedLancer


Each of the other campaigns has a track of events that fire more or less historically reflecting the big shifts in that theatre


Meaning D-Day will be in 1944 anyway for example?


Probably, but could come quite late in the summer if the Axis player has invested in N Africa and Italy. Seriously delaying the advance of the Western Allies has some very useful paybacks - I'll cover this in the Soviet AAR when we move into the end game


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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 1/23/2021 10:38:59 PM   
Joel Billings


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There’s at least one event that causes the axis manpower production multiplier to go up and the German national morale to go down.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 1/24/2021 7:01:27 PM   
ruzen

 

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Will there be Partizan events?

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 1/24/2021 7:07:09 PM   
821Bobo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruzen

Will there be Partizan events?


Yes

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 1/24/2021 7:42:39 PM   
Headshotkill

 

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Just a little warning, this post will talk about warcrimes, attrocities and the holocaust from a non-political, purely historical perspective.

Will the new event system also mention and allow the player to interact with the darker side of the war?
I'm not yet allowed to post links but it's easy to find long lists and pages full of warcrimes on the eastern front so much so that it came to symbolize that theatre.

....



< Message edited by loki100 -- 1/24/2021 8:46:33 PM >

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 1/24/2021 8:47:19 PM   
loki100


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No, not in a published game (have edited your post to stop anyone picking up on this or that aspect)

Roger

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 1/25/2021 9:12:54 AM   
Nix77

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Indeed, we are fixing typos now, but I've sent your items to the person working on that now. You should sign up to become a tester as we will probably have one more small beta test group let in next month.


Hi Joel,

where can we sign up for the next beta test group? I'd be VERY interested in this assignment :)

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 1/25/2021 4:25:17 PM   
Rommel76


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Very interesting Redlancer , thanks!

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 1/25/2021 6:33:28 PM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Headshotkill

Just a little warning, this post will talk about warcrimes, attrocities and the holocaust from a non-political, purely historical perspective.

Will the new event system also mention and allow the player to interact with the darker side of the war?
I'm not yet allowed to post links but it's easy to find long lists and pages full of warcrimes on the eastern front so much so that it came to symbolize that theatre.

....




The game Cauldrons of war: Barbarossa

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 1/25/2021 6:34:00 PM >


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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 2/6/2021 7:16:08 PM   
Headshotkill

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: Headshotkill

Just a little warning, this post will talk about warcrimes, attrocities and the holocaust from a non-political, purely historical perspective.

Will the new event system also mention and allow the player to interact with the darker side of the war?
I'm not yet allowed to post links but it's easy to find long lists and pages full of warcrimes on the eastern front so much so that it came to symbolize that theatre.

....

The game Cauldrons of war: Barbarossa

Yes, that game and DC: Barbarossa both portray some of the grimmer aspects ...

< Message edited by loki100 -- 2/6/2021 9:12:23 PM >

(in reply to Aurelian)
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 2/6/2021 8:37:25 PM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Headshotkill

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: Headshotkill

Just a little warning, this post will talk about warcrimes, attrocities and the holocaust from a non-political, purely historical perspective.

Will the new event system also mention and allow the player to interact with the darker side of the war?
I'm not yet allowed to post links but it's easy to find long lists and pages full of warcrimes on the eastern front so much so that it came to symbolize that theatre.

....

The game Cauldrons of war: Barbarossa

Yes, that game and DC: Barbarossa both portray some of the grimmer aspects ...


Once a year I read the Holocaust Chronicle, ...

< Message edited by loki100 -- 2/6/2021 9:13:00 PM >


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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 2/6/2021 9:11:40 PM   
loki100


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ok. but we are not having this conversation on this forum.



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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 2/8/2021 9:47:54 AM   
wodin


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The events shown all help the Allies, are there the same amount of events that help the Axis?

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 2/8/2021 9:54:00 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

The events shown all help the Allies, are there the same amount of events that help the Axis?


there are events that give things to the axis side (more manpower, admin pts, their 1941 and 1942 offensives in N Africa etc). But at the moment, their main role is in terms of the Theatre Box system so they tend to reflect the steady gains of the Western Allies from 1942 onwards

so no, not the same amount, but then the axis player can influence the Theatres by their force allocation, the Western Allies only exist in terms of the varying garrison requirements, combat intensity and the events reflecting their gains

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 2/13/2021 1:48:32 PM   
MAS

 

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Are HQ units also required as part of the garrisons in Theater Boxes?

I haven't seen any in the screenshots, but presumably there would be a requirement for a certain number / type of HQ's. Do they also influence the CV values, e.g. a lack of HQ's would drastically lower the CVs of the CUs present?

Are the ground forces in TBs or the Reserve Box capable of being organized under HQ's, so that you can transfer an entire army or corps formation at a time?

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 2/16/2021 1:55:03 PM   
MAS

 

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I have subsequently seen a screenshot with an HQ in the Reserve Box, so that question is answered, but if anyone could answer these other questions it would be appreciated. Thanks much!

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 2/16/2021 2:04:59 PM   
loki100


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yes, they are present, either by via the scripted reinforcement schedule or voluntarily due to a player transfers.

They have a more passive role in the Theatres in that there is no furhter command structure mainly as the combat/supply routines are heavily abstracted.

Similar in the reserve, you can send a HQ with a variable number of combat/support units to the reserve but the relationship is then broken. Prob more common for the Soviet side as you have more command assets that can be in excess of need and may tend to use the reserve both as a refit/training concept and as a final 'Stavka-reserve'. So in the game I am reporting in the AAR, at this stage I had something like 5 combat ready Rifle Corps, a few combat ready divisions and 2-3 Army level HQs in the reserve.

So if I pulled them to the map to replace wrecked formations or as an emergency, I could also pull down a command structure.

If I recall they retained their original commander but shed all their SUs, so I would need to replace that part of their OOB.

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 2/16/2021 7:09:00 PM   
MAS

 

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thanks!

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 2/26/2021 1:43:48 PM   
Hanny


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Is the events system structured so that pre war events chains can allow a player to follow different outcome choices?, for example have a Fuher conference pre war at start of turn one, event picture on strategic targets for The campaign, and have choices of political or military getting their way, or a fudge and both thinking they did which would be historical and no de buff or buffs to the chain, and ends the chain, or further events from military choice could give bonus vps for casualty infliction in the initial turns, and no top generals can be replaced in the initial period, and increased cost to do so in the latter period, etc as the military get their way, or political choice giving a vp bonus to taking x city or a production pool boost of x and so on.

< Message edited by Hanny -- 2/26/2021 1:49:12 PM >


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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 2/26/2021 2:00:34 PM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

Is the events system structured so that pre war events chains can allow a player to follow different outcome choices?, for example have a Fuher conference pre war at start of turn one, event picture on strategic targets for The campaign, and have choices of political or military getting their way, or a fudge and both thinking they did which would be historical and no de buff or buffs to the chain, and ends the chain, or further events from military choice could give bonus vps for casualty infliction in the initial turns, and no top generals can be replaced in the initial period, and increased cost to do so in the latter period, etc as the military get their way, or political choice giving a vp bonus to taking x city or a production pool boost of x and so on.


No. at the moment there are no 'what-if' and very few either/or style events. I think that is mainly for sanity in the testing/production process ... as you can readily imagine balancing this thing (never mind catching unintended consequences as creative testers are let loose on the systems) is a challenge without major splits in the outcomes you are trying to control.

Having said all that, the event syntax is easy to use (if you know the games, its easier than in the AGEOD games as it has an 'or' function), and there is no reason why it can't be used create the entry point to different set ups and/or branching sets of consequences. But I suspect you are then looking at player mods.

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 2/26/2021 2:32:23 PM   
Hanny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


No. at the moment there are no 'what-if' and very few either/or style events. I think that is mainly for sanity in the testing/production process ... as you can readily imagine balancing this thing (never mind catching unintended consequences as creative testers are let loose on the systems) is a challenge without major splits in the outcomes you are trying to control.

Having said all that, the event syntax is easy to use (if you know the games, its easier than in the AGEOD games as it has an 'or' function), and there is no reason why it can't be used create the entry point to different set ups and/or branching sets of consequences. But I suspect you are then looking at player mods.
So more of a historical information event system at present rather than interactive, but has that capability.


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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 2/26/2021 3:21:00 PM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


No. at the moment there are no 'what-if' and very few either/or style events. I think that is mainly for sanity in the testing/production process ... as you can readily imagine balancing this thing (never mind catching unintended consequences as creative testers are let loose on the systems) is a challenge without major splits in the outcomes you are trying to control.

Having said all that, the event syntax is easy to use (if you know the games, its easier than in the AGEOD games as it has an 'or' function), and there is no reason why it can't be used create the entry point to different set ups and/or branching sets of consequences. But I suspect you are then looking at player mods.
So more of a historical information event system at present rather than interactive, but has that capability.



yeah, basically. Its used to trigger events in the theatre boxes (such as changing combat intensity), to do one off alterations to resources like manpower or to expand/reduce the map area. The internal time lines chain, so if the Allies finish off N Africa say in Feb 43 (no idea if they can, but it does an eg), then the Sicily events will probably come in about May 43 and so on.

But I think you can do some pretty neat stuff with it, certainly make conditional events such as lose city xxx before turn yyy drop NM for 5 turns etc

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 3/8/2021 3:42:43 PM   
ranknfile

 

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If an on-map unit is scheduled to be transferred to another theater, does one need to take any action (pull them from the front line? Move them to a rail hex?).

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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #4 - Theatre Boxes & the Events Sy... - 3/8/2021 4:27:42 PM   
loki100


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no, they are just removed.

You get a direct warning about 5 turns in advance when the unit status shows as 'withdraw' (& can be identified as such using one of the map modes) but thats just to advise you that the unit will go at some stage soon

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