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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase

 
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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/26/2021 9:02:37 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir
A screenshot of planetary invasion would be nice before the Beta starts.


Sorry, keeping that under wraps for a while longer.


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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/26/2021 9:03:19 PM   
Grognerd_INC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AKicebear

33% new, 33% improved, 33% as expected (i.e. from the original). I think this was stated by Sid Meir as the formula for a good Civ sequel.


Got it, thanks.

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/26/2021 9:05:30 PM   
Ric119

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ric119
1) As the humans, will they have our Solar system or the option to start in our sol system?


Well, these aren't exactly "us". In DW lore terms, the ancient humans were more directly connected to Earth and sadly as a result of how the ancient timeline ended you probably wouldn't recognize that solar system in present-day DW. Thus for this release, there likely won't be our system as an option, but if/when we add the more ancient storyline back in, it would make sense to include that then and might make sense in general to add the option to have "defined" rather than procedurally generated home systems as an option. We have some tech that allows for some of that for story purposes already.

quote:

2)In terms of modding, will we be able to overhaul mod the game e.g create a full star wars or star trek mod for the game akin to New Horizons or Fallen Republic?


Yes, that should be entirely possible.



Awesome! And thanks for the response

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/26/2021 9:07:15 PM   
SirHoraceHarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir
A screenshot of planetary invasion would be nice before the Beta starts.


Sorry, keeping that under wraps for a while longer.



Is this a hint that planetary battles will be somewhat more involved that watching two sides of icons march on each other? Not expecting a full blown mini rts mode but some measure of tactics would be nice.

< Message edited by SirHoraceHarkness -- 1/26/2021 9:08:58 PM >

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/26/2021 9:09:51 PM   
popgea

 

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Can't wait for beta and will purchase as soon as available. The fleet battle was really impressive in that I felt I was actually watching something in sci-fi. Even more exciting were the hints at the overlays to really get a visual representation of your space, managing fleets for defense and security is one of my favorite parts of DW.

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/26/2021 9:14:58 PM   
Hanekem

 

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Hmmm... what do we know about the titans in ground combat? I reall wish we could avoid the whole "mech" thing (and use some sort of latter mark bolo instead) or the whole interactions and, I am guessing combined arms thing that was implied in the stream

I do have one question about the ship hulls, these are research items? we will be needing to research the hulls in particular? or just classes and we would get some sort of general hull patterns?
I am a bit unsure about the hull's hp and armor, are those to be inherent? or will we be able to modify? (or create hull variants?)
Will we still have a max construct-able size?


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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/26/2021 9:23:07 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanekem
Hmmm... what do we know about the titans in ground combat? I reall wish we could avoid the whole "mech" thing (and use some sort of latter mark bolo instead) or the whole interactions and, I am guessing combined arms thing that was implied in the stream


Titans can mean different things for different factions. They are a later game troop type and certainly expand the possible interactions and strategies for ground combat.

quote:

I do have one question about the ship hulls, these are research items? we will be needing to research the hulls in particular? or just classes and we would get some sort of general hull patterns?
I am a bit unsure about the hull's hp and armor, are those to be inherent? or will we be able to modify? (or create hull variants?)
Will we still have a max construct-able size?


Yes, the hulls are researchable as construction research projects, but there are multiple variant hulls per role. For example, there are four different frigate hull variants, some variants are more general and well-rounded in terms of component bays, some are more specialized.

Each hull variant both has a maximum size it unlocks for that role and a different set of possible component bays. In most cases, especially for hulls like military ships and stations, you will have more bays than you can really fill within your maximum hull size and what you focus on is up to you.

Each hull has an innate amount of structural "hull size" which can absorb damage directed at the hull. It also has an innate reactive armor value. You can add to a ship's defenses and armor through the various defense components.

Your max constructable size depends on the hulls you have research for a particular role. Some scale up to be quite large, equal or greater than the max size in DW1, others have a more limited scale.

Here's a screenshot showing some frigate variants which will hopefully help this make more sense:









Attachment (1)

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/26/2021 9:25:07 PM   
popgea

 

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Quick question I always wondered, will it be possible to mod the overlays and galactic map screens? I always envisioned a data scientist or visualization designer really being able to do great things with the amount of data in play.

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/26/2021 9:39:03 PM   
Whiskiz

 

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A bit late to the party but that's what you get for living in Aussie land, at least i still have the stream to watch for the first time

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/26/2021 9:45:24 PM   
Hanekem

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanekem
Hmmm... what do we know about the titans in ground combat? I reall wish we could avoid the whole "mech" thing (and use some sort of latter mark bolo instead) or the whole interactions and, I am guessing combined arms thing that was implied in the stream


Titans can mean different things for different factions. They are a later game troop type and certainly expand the possible interactions and strategies for ground combat.

quote:

I do have one question about the ship hulls, these are research items? we will be needing to research the hulls in particular? or just classes and we would get some sort of general hull patterns?
I am a bit unsure about the hull's hp and armor, are those to be inherent? or will we be able to modify? (or create hull variants?)
Will we still have a max construct-able size?


Yes, the hulls are researchable as construction research projects, but there are multiple variant hulls per role. For example, there are four different frigate hull variants, some variants are more general and well-rounded in terms of component bays, some are more specialized.

Each hull variant both has a maximum size it unlocks for that role and a different set of possible component bays. In most cases, especially for hulls like military ships and stations, you will have more bays than you can really fill within your maximum hull size and what you focus on is up to you.

Each hull has an innate amount of structural "hull size" which can absorb damage directed at the hull. It also has an innate reactive armor value. You can add to a ship's defenses and armor through the various defense components.

Your max constructable size depends on the hulls you have research for a particular role. Some scale up to be quite large, equal or greater than the max size in DW1, others have a more limited scale.

Here's a screenshot showing some frigate variants which will hopefully help this make more sense:










So the hull research items would be some sort of continuous research? that is to say you could research improved Frigates to get better and better hulls? or would they be distinct research projects?

As for the variants... it feels rather restrictive, I'd rather have some way of setting up the variants myself, with the main research providing the basic hull type and max component space
Seeing the image, there seems to be a total component space of 26, (I'd have expected a differential between standard and large bays, but seems it isn't the case) so being able to make a Frigate variant (with an assumed max and minimum number for each slot) doesn't seem to be something that would add too much complexity (and AI players could still use the predefined)

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/26/2021 10:18:58 PM   
Whiskiz

 

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Forgive me if i'm wrong but hull variation is actually more than what we got in DW1 - where you got the one hull of each type with them all being meaningless as the only difference was the max size from research.

Here there's multiple variations of the same hull with different stats and component slots allowing for more variation and specializations within combat.

Where player choice really comes in is the build on said hulls - apparently while there's finite component slots, you won't be able to max them all out so there's still plenty of room for different/unique builds and overall theorycrafting.



< Message edited by Whiskiz -- 1/26/2021 11:11:54 PM >

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/26/2021 10:41:49 PM   
Webbco


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Well done Erik, Elliot and team. You've been working really hard. I wish you success on DW2, it's looking great! I personally like the direction and changes you're making to the franchise.

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/26/2021 10:47:16 PM   
Webbco


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A question I do have - could the new game engine allow for possible planetside developments in the future, either officially or through modding? I'm thinking viewing and interacting with colonies that are dynamic - see them grow and develop, etc?

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 12:23:50 AM   
Hanekem

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiskiz

Forgive me if i'm wrong but hull variation is actually more than what we got in DW1 - where you got the one hull of each type with them all being meaningless as the only difference was the max size from research.

Here there's multiple variations of the same hull with different stats and component slots allowing for more variation and specializations within combat.

Where player choice really comes in is the build on said hulls - apparently while there's finite component slots, you won't be able to max them all out so there's still plenty of room for different/unique builds and overall theorycrafting.




Not really, in DW1 we didn't have hulls per se, we had max hull size and you could go nuts with each military hull slot as you would like (or not use them at all) hell, you could make the five hulls a variant of the same design, if you felt like it.

Here these hulls are the base for your ships but aren't the ships themselves either, they determine the max size and number of slots you can have, both in size and type, so this system is far more restrictive.


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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 12:49:14 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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We did go into this in some length in a previous sneak peek. I'd suggest you read through all of this to get a better sense of what is involved now:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4737456

It's definitely true that you can no longer have, for example, a Frigate larger than a Battleship. However, the changes to ship design and both ship and fleet settings and combat are, in my opinion, well worth it in terms of the end result. You can still have really big ships when you research the bigger hulls later on, which was represented by the size increases in DW1 and now is unlocked through similar hull size increases for the later game roles such as Cruisers, Battleships and Carriers. The component bays are not super-restrictive, but they do add just enough restrictions to make for more design decisions while the hull variants give you more freedom to specialize as you want.

Regards,

- Erik


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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 2:07:03 AM   
Hanekem

 

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I understand and while it is disappointing, as problematic the ship design screen in DW1, it was far more free and by researching max size it did felt like our space empire's shipbuilding got better in a more progressive manner rather than you now unlocked "battleships"
I liked the idea of being able to build battleships from the get go, even if those battleships would latter on be rather destroyer in their size, admittedly I choose not to most of the time, but it made a sorta sense, given that pre-dread battleships were in the same ballpark as current day destroyers (or that current day destroyers outmass WWI and WWII era cruisers)


But my question wasn't about having a Frigate size 500 but if the frigate improvement tech was a one off tech item (with several down the line as new tech items) or some repeating tech (even if for a repeat you'd need some preconditions or something).

There was also the question about why have a base frigate hull and being able to create the frigate subclasses as oposed of having the as "stock" variants
I mean why have three variants when you can have only one and being able to fine tune it as much as you like (with in some maximum and minimum limitation for each class)
I can see the attractive of having the stock options as a go to, or for the AI, but in time I am sure I'd like to optimize the base hulls in some way (like for instance removing the hangars from the frigates in the image and using that space for something else, maybe a bigger sensor array for a "Heavy scout"/intruder or for more armor for some picket type ship)

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 2:12:05 AM   
Pipewrench


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a long lost friend whispered there are battles to be won again
the game looks great - cannot wait

The original release along with universe has provided me untold hours of enjoyment
One of the best purchases I ever made

Thanks for bringing this back A+
Seriously take my money - runs away giggling

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 3:56:19 AM   
Galaxy227


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Honestly I really quite appreciate this change about the hull types. Although other players might've enjoyed the "freedoms" of DW:U pertaining to ship types, I always found it irritating that escorts, frigates, and such could theoretically be larger than carriers or capital ships.

With the new system, it'll be much easier to gauge the power of specific ship types because you'll understand that a frigate, for instance, could never have more than "X" amount of hull size. This, in my opinion, is an improvement. It works to further define what a frigate actually is. This change hardly hampers any creativity of the player. It works to specialize each ship type within more realistic boundaries, while simultaneously giving the player another layer of preference to consider (hull types) when designing ships.

Edit: Not to mention that when ship types have specializations within a set of boundaries, it allows the developers to implement systems for specific ship types in ways that would've otherwise been impossible.

< Message edited by Galaxy227 -- 1/27/2021 4:01:30 AM >

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 7:19:09 AM   
Gertjan

 

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Hi everyone, great to be back after quite a while. Cannot wait to play this game again! Probably much better than the micro management nightmare that Stellaris has become . The ship battles look awesome!

One question to Eric: in the "what's new thread" I noted that you will be introducing "natural 'geography'" to the galaxy. While I do like some geography to the star map, I am a bit afraid that it will be too much and unrealistic. The open space (i.e. no fixed paths, and going through system B to go C from A) is what I really liked in DWU. I hope you can confirm it will not introduce too many 'artificial' choke-points. This is something I really dislike in Stellaris and one can argue it not really realistic in space.

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 11:36:41 AM   
Hanekem

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Galaxy227

Honestly I really quite appreciate this change about the hull types. Although other players might've enjoyed the "freedoms" of DW:U pertaining to ship types, I always found it irritating that escorts, frigates, and such could theoretically be larger than carriers or capital ships.

With the new system, it'll be much easier to gauge the power of specific ship types because you'll understand that a frigate, for instance, could never have more than "X" amount of hull size. This, in my opinion, is an improvement. It works to further define what a frigate actually is. This change hardly hampers any creativity of the player. It works to specialize each ship type within more realistic boundaries, while simultaneously giving the player another layer of preference to consider (hull types) when designing ships.

Edit: Not to mention that when ship types have specializations within a set of boundaries, it allows the developers to implement systems for specific ship types in ways that would've otherwise been impossible.



I know this is probably going Out of topic, but why do you think a Frigate needs a size constrain? why would you think that is realistic? I mean going irl, ship size is a matter of the mission, a ship is as big as it needs to be and as cheap as you can make it (specially if you need them in numbers).

as for Frigates bigger than BBs, I can see some scenarios where you can have Battleships that might be, in fact, smaller than frigates, say a slow moving "coastal" battleship, meant as an alternative to a defense station that can be more or less quickly moved into place to provide defense to a colony till you can get up some proper facilities on site (few fuel tanks, few engines) not sure if it would work, but as a design idea it is interesting.

Honestly I dislike inherent bonus to a hull class, better have those be done with components than an artificial modifier attached to the hull, since that design is a pain to balance (look at stellaris and the corvette issue for instance)

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 11:44:49 AM   
Bleek


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I like the fact ship hulls have a max size based on their role. Something oddly missing from DW1.

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 11:48:12 AM   
Larsenex


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One reason why I like the change is to make combat a bit more easy to understand. While you can assign roles for the ships you build, I would assume the ai is going to keep hull sizes tied to roles. Thus Battleships will normally be capitals, and frigates and destroyers (could be capitals but hey its a space game) would be assault or picket. This would let newer players understand how enemy ship formations work a bit better and if they wanted to attack certain targets they would have more information on what each ship type would do at a formations glance.

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 12:29:25 PM   
Hanekem

 

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That is actually a good point.

I am still unsure about the hull bonuses, because I feel that is going to be a pain to balance, but unlike Stellaris, we don't need to find a main battle role for all hulls, so if a frigate or escort die like mayflies in a battleline you can always say, sure, they aren't meant to be there, of course they are going to go up in smoke that fast

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 12:59:56 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gertjan
One question to Eric: in the "what's new thread" I noted that you will be introducing "natural 'geography'" to the galaxy. While I do like some geography to the star map, I am a bit afraid that it will be too much and unrealistic. The open space (i.e. no fixed paths, and going through system B to go C from A) is what I really liked in DWU. I hope you can confirm it will not introduce too many 'artificial' choke-points. This is something I really dislike in Stellaris and one can argue it not really realistic in space.


Yes, we're not turning DW into a point to point game. You still have freedom of movement, but as in the geography of our actual galaxy, the changes to how the nebula clouds work mean that there are places where it's much faster and safer to go around, but this still leaves large areas with unrestricted movement along with some natural "bridges".

Regards,

- Erik



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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 1:02:38 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Just to add a point regarding the hulls, I'm certainly in the camp where I think it adds to the game and it was also a part of the fleet and space combat enhancements we made, but I get that some folks may prefer things to be the way they were in DW1. That's actually very easy to change through modding the ship hull data files, so I'm sure if there's demand for that a modder will take it on board. I get that this seems odd coming from DW1, but I can only say that it does work well the new way and once you play it I think you'll enjoy it (and if you don't, it's moddable!).

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 1:17:14 PM   
Hanekem

 

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That is great news.
The hull system is far from being a dealbreaker but on a first glance it felt like a step back form DW1 (mind, it might work better game wise, so I might even like the system once I get to play the game)
But this more or less put to ground whatever issue I might have with the hulls

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 1:36:33 PM   
Cauldyth

 

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The undefined hull sizes in DW were one of the things I didn't like about it, so I'm thrilled at the new direction. But also glad to hear the other group of players should be able to have it modded to the old way.

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 2:12:01 PM   
Jorgen_CAB

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiskiz

Forgive me if i'm wrong but hull variation is actually more than what we got in DW1 - where you got the one hull of each type with them all being meaningless as the only difference was the max size from research.

Here there's multiple variations of the same hull with different stats and component slots allowing for more variation and specializations within combat.

Where player choice really comes in is the build on said hulls - apparently while there's finite component slots, you won't be able to max them all out so there's still plenty of room for different/unique builds and overall theorycrafting.





I think this is conflating freedom with actual choice which is actually rarely the case.

When you put restrictions it can actual make you have MORE actual choices and you get more iterations that are viable ones for more different reasons. Freedom can often lead to many really bad choices and reduce the actual good choices to just a few ones.

I'm in the camp that the new hull system looks really promising and fun.

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Post #: 118
RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 2:22:04 PM   
Jorgen_CAB

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanekem

I understand and while it is disappointing, as problematic the ship design screen in DW1, it was far more free and by researching max size it did felt like our space empire's shipbuilding got better in a more progressive manner rather than you now unlocked "battleships"
I liked the idea of being able to build battleships from the get go, even if those battleships would latter on be rather destroyer in their size, admittedly I choose not to most of the time, but it made a sorta sense, given that pre-dread battleships were in the same ballpark as current day destroyers (or that current day destroyers outmass WWI and WWII era cruisers)


But my question wasn't about having a Frigate size 500 but if the frigate improvement tech was a one off tech item (with several down the line as new tech items) or some repeating tech (even if for a repeat you'd need some preconditions or something).

There was also the question about why have a base frigate hull and being able to create the frigate subclasses as oposed of having the as "stock" variants
I mean why have three variants when you can have only one and being able to fine tune it as much as you like (with in some maximum and minimum limitation for each class)
I can see the attractive of having the stock options as a go to, or for the AI, but in time I am sure I'd like to optimize the base hulls in some way (like for instance removing the hangars from the frigates in the image and using that space for something else, maybe a bigger sensor array for a "Heavy scout"/intruder or for more armor for some picket type ship)



To be honest it actually feels more realistic this way, if not just for game balance reasons. In real life you generally can't just add whatever you want to a ship based on weight alone, volume also is a thing. It also is very important where on the hull that weight/volume are going to be put and that also limit what types of systems can be utilised and where. Sensors and weapons in real ships are a pretty good example for this.

In real life there is always a measure of something added will take away particular space from adding something else but not necessarily a third system that don't compete for that physical location in the hull.

The general freedom we had in DW1 was far more unrealistic and did not present us with the general engineering challenges that we face in reality and the physical limitations of different shapes that things would in reality have to deal with.


< Message edited by Jorgen_CAB -- 1/27/2021 2:27:07 PM >

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 - Showcase - 1/27/2021 3:14:53 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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FYI, I just updated the first post in this thread with links to all the parts of the stream and videos.

Regards,

- Erik


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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Jorgen_CAB)
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