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Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/20/2021 7:48:13 PM   
Randy Stead


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I'm playing the Guadalcanal stock scenario as Allies. I went with the original destinations as the scenario designer set up. I've taken Lunga, but it is still a close run thing on Tulagi. If I don't take Tulagi within the next turn or two I am up the river.

Fortunately, I can drop an AK or two into Lunga and pick up some supply and quickly shuttle it over. What I am wondering... is it possible to pick up some supply "over the beach" in what is essentially the reverse of an amphibious assault? If I had not taken the port on Guadalacanal, could I draw some supply from what I had just landed the previous turn? I think it should be possible, but I would like to know for future reference.

I am in turn 6. My escorts worked over some IJN SSX [what are those, midget subs?] and one I believe is likely sunk and the other one I got a sinking report, large oil slick reported. I am taking that as a kill. Unfortunately, an SSX has put a torpedo into USS San Juan. I have not checked damage yet as I had to leave the game to do something else, real world. I shall shortly get back into the game, but thought it best to ask my question and perhaps receive a reply by the time I get back.

Thanks.
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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/20/2021 8:23:14 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

IJN SSX [what are those, midget subs?]


Yes. As for the rest, I'm not exactly sure what it is that you're asking.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/20/2021 10:28:37 PM   
Randy Stead


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As I was fortunate enough to take Lunga, I have a small port through which I am feeding supply. I had a remnant from the Tulagi amphibious group nearby, so I am using it to shuttle supply from Lunga to Tulagi, over the beach. So what I am wondering is, if I did not have Lunga's port, could I use an amphibious TF to draw supply from Lunga, over the beach? I would imagine it to be possible, and I may have to use a group to evacuate my Tulagi landing. However, I am very averse to that; I'd rather land more troops, even if they are not prepped for Tulagi. My battles are coming in just under 2-1 by a margin, knock the fort down to 0 but they rebuild it back to 1. This turn I am defending as fatigue and disruption are becoming factors.

I can see why they referred to Operation Watchtower as Operation Shoestring.

I've got some combat reviews to post but I cannot do that this evening due to other more pressing chores. I'll do my best to get the report filed tomorrow.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/20/2021 10:42:08 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

if I did not have Lunga's port, could I use an amphibious TF to draw supply from Lunga, over the beach?


Yes, you can load supply from a lvl-0 port via amphibious TF. It will just load very slowly.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/20/2021 10:59:15 PM   
Randy Stead


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Thanks, Q-Ball. If I understand you correctly, if I tried to remove my forces from the Tulagi base hex it they would load as if from a size 0 base? Wow, I better make sure I do not have to evacuate. Of course, IJN will try to force me to do just that.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 2:17:43 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

Thanks, Q-Ball. If I understand you correctly, if I tried to remove my forces from the Tulagi base hex it they would load as if from a size 0 base? Wow, I better make sure I do not have to evacuate. Of course, IJN will try to force me to do just that.

If you do not have much heavy equipment there, you can load faster by designating a "Fast Transport" TF. Unlike a Transport TF it will load troops in combat mode and it will load very quickly troops and what they can carry. You can load the rest on small amphib vessels later when it is safe to take a few days loading.

Only certain vessels can be in an FT TF though. APDs are ideal, some AMCs can and some fast xAPs. Think Tokyo Express.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 3:31:13 PM   
Randy Stead


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Thanks, BB. So, would I be able to use Fast Transport to take supplies to Tulagi and unload them over the beach? I am running out of options to get supplies to my boys. I've got another amphib on the way with some more troops and supplies. It'd be nice to get some more supplies to them in the meantime.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 3:35:00 PM   
Sardaukar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

Thanks, BB. So, would I be able to use Fast Transport to take supplies to Tulagi and unload them over the beach? I am running out of options to get supplies to my boys. I've got another amphib on the way with some more troops and supplies. It'd be nice to get some more supplies to them in the meantime.


Yes, Fast Transport is what you need. APDs are idea for this. It's not often enough, but it's an option.

Basically they run in, unload one cycle and attempt to run away when day comes.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 3:35:50 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

Thanks, BB. So, would I be able to use Fast Transport to take supplies to Tulagi and unload them over the beach? I am running out of options to get supplies to my boys. I've got another amphib on the way with some more troops and supplies. It'd be nice to get some more supplies to them in the meantime.


Yes. But note that an APD will only carry 60 supplies but an AVD will carry a lot more. There is a penalty for putting supplies into the troops area and troops in the cargo area.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 3:41:50 PM   
Randy Stead


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After most of my ships left Lunga to return to Noumea, I left a few on surface combat duty. Then ran into the IJN in a night action, and "Watanabe" crossed my T. In spite of that, I did not come off too badly. I had the edge on him in numbers and survived the night action relatively unscathed. The next morning the two fleets tangled again. IJN had DD Yukuzi, CL Yobari and CA Chokai [I remember her from my Avalon Hill "Midway" days]. I had Vincennes, Astoria and Vincenne, with about 4 DDs. After it was all over Vincennes had some minor to moderate damage, Quincy took one hit, Dewey took one hit. Chokai was a flaming wreck with 17 hits and fire; Yuzuki had several hits and was on fire, Yubari did a Samurai Robinhoodasan, bravely running away. My boys are now back in port at Noumea licking their wounds. I suspect Chokai and Yuzuki later sank, no confirmation. I have received messages that I have sunk 3 SSX. Several scout planes shot down by my CAP at various bases. I lost one DD near Noumea to an IJN SS.

Lunga is mine, but the fight for Tulagi continues. Supplies and reinforcements on the way. My boys are doing their best to get Henderson Field into action. Some Bettys attacked a transport and destroyer there. Lucky for me, no hits, two Bettys damaged by flak.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 3:48:37 PM   
Randy Stead


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Forgot to mention, CLAA San Juan got busted up pretty good at Tulagi. She's back at Noumea with serious system and flotation damage. The damage control knocked several points off the flotation damage on the way back to Noumea. Fortunately, the engines were in good shape and she was able to clear the area. I sent out some escort ASW from Noumea and met her to get her safely home, as there are two or three SS in the area.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 3:48:50 PM   
Sardaukar


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It is pretty good scenario to re-create some things that happened.

Kind of tells well about Marine supply problems and why.



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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 4:00:04 PM   
RangerJoe


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For confirmation of the IJN cruisers sinking, check and see if there are any Japanese float planes as ground losses. They are close to a base so if they were in the air, they would be able to relocate there and not show up as OPs losses. You want to look for Petes and Jakes.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 5:00:55 PM   
Randy Stead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

For confirmation of the IJN cruisers sinking, check and see if there are any Japanese float planes as ground losses. They are close to a base so if they were in the air, they would be able to relocate there and not show up as OPs losses. You want to look for Petes and Jakes.


Good advice, Joe. Will do so. As a character in M*A*S*H* or such said, "Damn good Joe!"

Some good news, at last. Tulagi just fell, turn 10. I was able to get a load of supplies over from Lunga [sorry, 1st Marines, but your Tulagi comrades were hungrier than you] and they were able to get a 10-1 to take the base. That supply run came with hurt; a DD took 74 flotation damage. I am diverting her to Lunga as I do not think she will survive a trip anywhere else. Perhaps the Bettys will get her if she makes it to port, but they will have to fight Pappy Boyington to get at her.

My Bombardment group that was on the way, centered around the one BB I have, has been converted to a Surface Combat on the way. Perhaps I'll snoop around Guadalcanal, perhaps not. The Bettys are acting up. I just flew in two VMFs to Henderson Field.

This means I can unload the reinforcements that were nearly ready to go from Noumea. Now I have to tie the dock up again. Just got a CVE in at Noumea. Any advice on what to do with her? I'm thinking she will be handy for escorting supply runs to to Lunga and Tulagi.

Also, what should I do about the enemy remnants on Guadalcanal and Tulagi? Should I go after them or sit back and let them starve? I've a feeling I am going to get an education here.

Now my main concern will be to keep those island boys supplied, get reinforcements over to New Guinea and hold what I have. Then I can think about taking more away from the enemy.

With respect to that damaged DD, if she makes it to Lunga. What kind of assets would be most appropriate to send over to patch her up so I can get her back to Noumea? I know, RTFM, smart guy.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 5:04:55 PM   
Sardaukar


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Only extra asset you could send to patch damaged ships in other base is AR.

But they are incredibly valuable, so loss of one (not maybe for points but for capability) would be serious.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 5:13:52 PM   
pontiouspilot


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I suspect many haven't played the smaller scenarios so it's tough to give you an answer to this last question. In a generic sense it is never a bad idea to dig in and build the base and accumulate supplies. As you know, the Japanese in real life came in waves until the late fall. If the Japanese had came early and all at once Guadalcanal could have been an unhappy ending. The US didn't move to full offense until late '42/early '43.

Unless your damaged DD is hardly hurt at all it will have go to Auckland or Sydney....beware of their covid quarantine however.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 5:31:38 PM   
alimentary

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead
So what I am wondering is, if I did not have Lunga's port, could I use an amphibious TF to draw supply from Lunga, over the beach?

Possibly I am misunderstanding the question. I wonder if you are asking whether, prior to capturing Lunga, you could have used an amphibious task force to extract supply from the contested beachhead.

No. That is not possible. Any supply in the base belongs to the base owner (the Japanese). The Allied supply that is present is not assigned to the hex. It is assigned to Allied units in the hex. Any supply that is landed at the beachhead is divvied up among the units on the beach. It is possible for units participating in an amphibious assault to have huge quantities of supply shown in their inventory. You cannot load this supply unless you re-embark the unit(s) holding it.

I am not certain about whether any massive excess supply in the unit inventory is re-embarked along with the unit when it is evacuated from a contested amphibious assault hex. Possibly you only get a normal supply amount and lose the excess.

When (and if) you capture the hex, the excess supply in the units is drained into the base. I could swear that I've seen this documented somewhere, but I cannot now locate a reference.


< Message edited by alimentary -- 1/21/2021 5:42:03 PM >

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 5:35:44 PM   
Sardaukar


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Basicaly, in smaller (and bigger) scenarios, is to get ship to any port you can disband so flooding gets reduced (if badly damaged).

Then getting it to bigger port (unless it sinks on the way), preferably with shipyard. Everything else is "patchwork".

There are some good posts about this.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2260137

Section 14.2.1 - SHIP DAMAGE & REPAIR



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"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 5:36:20 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

For confirmation of the IJN cruisers sinking, check and see if there are any Japanese float planes as ground losses. They are close to a base so if they were in the air, they would be able to relocate there and not show up as OPs losses. You want to look for Petes and Jakes.


Good advice, Joe. Will do so. As a character in M*A*S*H* or such said, "Damn good Joe!"

Some good news, at last. Tulagi just fell, turn 10. I was able to get a load of supplies over from Lunga [sorry, 1st Marines, but your Tulagi comrades were hungrier than you] and they were able to get a 10-1 to take the base. That supply run came with hurt; a DD took 74 flotation damage. I am diverting her to Lunga as I do not think she will survive a trip anywhere else. Perhaps the Bettys will get her if she makes it to port, but they will have to fight Pappy Boyington to get at her.

My Bombardment group that was on the way, centered around the one BB I have, has been converted to a Surface Combat on the way. Perhaps I'll snoop around Guadalcanal, perhaps not. The Bettys are acting up. I just flew in two VMFs to Henderson Field.

This means I can unload the reinforcements that were nearly ready to go from Noumea. Now I have to tie the dock up again. Just got a CVE in at Noumea. Any advice on what to do with her? I'm thinking she will be handy for escorting supply runs to to Lunga and Tulagi.

Also, what should I do about the enemy remnants on Guadalcanal and Tulagi? Should I go after them or sit back and let them starve? I've a feeling I am going to get an education here.

Now my main concern will be to keep those island boys supplied, get reinforcements over to New Guinea and hold what I have. Then I can think about taking more away from the enemy.

With respect to that damaged DD, if she makes it to Lunga. What kind of assets would be most appropriate to send over to patch her up so I can get her back to Noumea? I know, RTFM, smart guy.

If you go after the enemy in the jungle, they get all the defensive bonuses from the terrain so you will likely suffer a lot of casualties. Job one is to ensure they do not get supplies - interdict anything headed for Tassafaronga while building the airfield bigger and bringing in more supply and reinforcements. Getting more supply in is probably more important than getting in more troops that will deplete the supply faster. But bring engineers and air support for the AF - that is your most valuable asset.

If that CVE hosts a fighter squadron use it to cover the transports at Guadalcanal - CVEs do not lose ops capability in a base hex but CVs lose 50% even when in a TF and not docked. If the CVE has bombers, get them trained in Search and ASW before you send it with a convoy to protect against raiders and subs.


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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 5:38:59 PM   
Randy Stead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: alimentary

quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead
So what I am wondering is, if I did not have Lunga's port, could I use an amphibious TF to draw supply from Lunga, over the beach?

Possibly I am misunderstanding the question. I wonder if you are asking whether, prior to capturing Lunga, you could have used an amphibious task force to extract supply from the contested beachhead.

No. That is not possible. Any supply in the base belongs to the base owner (the Japanese). The Allied supply that is present is not assigned to the hex. It is assigned to Allied units in the hex. Any supply that is landed at the beachhead is divvied up among the units on the beach. It is possible for units participating in an amphibious assault to have huge quantities of supply shown in their inventory. You cannot load this supply unless you re-embark the unit(s) holding it.

I am not certain about whether any massive excess supply in the unit inventory is re-embarked along with the unit when it is evacuated from a contested amphibious assault hex. Possibly you only get a normal supply amount and lose the excess.



That is exactly the question I was asking. Thank you for understanding it. Yes, I was trying to figure out if I could take supply from landed units in a contested hex, over the beach to get it onto ships and take it elsewhere. You have answered my question and for that I thank you.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 5:43:21 PM   
Randy Stead


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The CVE Long Island has shown up, but no aircraft aboard. I have units in training, so looks like she is going to be a port queen for a while.

The DD steaming back for Lunga has around 75 flotation damage. I just want to get her to Lunga and plug some holes. If she survives the journey and any attention shown to her by Aunty Betty I will try to get her back to Sydney.

I've got several ships in Noumea with serious system and flotation damage. When they are sufficiently patched I shall try to get them to Sydney. But nothing will move until the system damage is minimized.

Thanks to all for advice.

I am off the optometrists now to pick up my new specs. When I get back I have to bone up one minefield maintenance. I have several home port minefields that are degrading. I have to read up on how to maintain them.

Talk to you guys later.

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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 5:46:01 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

The CVE Long Island has shown up, but no aircraft aboard. I have units in training, so looks like she is going to be a port queen for a while.

The DD steaming back for Lunga has around 75 flotation damage. I just want to get her to Lunga and plug some holes. If she survives the journey and any attention shown to her by Aunty Betty I will try to get her back to Sydney.

I've got several ships in Noumea with serious system and flotation damage. When they are sufficiently patched I shall try to get them to Sydney. But nothing will move until the system damage is minimized.

Thanks to all for advice.

I am off the optometrists now to pick up my new specs. When I get back I have to bone up one minefield maintenance. I have several home port minefields that are degrading. I have to read up on how to maintain them.

Talk to you guys later.

Use Long Island to ferry land based fighters close enough to Lunga to fly off to reinforce the air base. You will have to have LI docked or disbanded to transfer the LBA to her. Single engine aircraft only, I think. Not certain on 2E fighters but 2E bombers are definitely no-go.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 1/21/2021 5:47:56 PM >


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RE: Emergency supply via amphibious? - 1/21/2021 5:53:04 PM   
RangerJoe


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ACMs maintain the minefield.

Make sure that you have lots of supplies then bombard the enemy, no other attacks needed by land units. Bomb with aircraft and bombard them with ships as well.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 23
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