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Questions about air units and air bases - 1/18/2021 4:10:00 AM   
Novaliz


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1) Night missions are not explained. Whats the purpose of night missions? For example night fighters: Do they only make sense when using with bombers flying at night? In the commander´s report night fighters have a special filter option but there are no night bombers. Is the night a "special" battlefield were only planes assigned to night (or day & night) fight against each other? Are night fighters special trained or can I convert any fighter to a night fighter without any penalties?

2) What do the numbers in the red circle and the ratio in the blue circle mean? I was not able to figure it out. I thought amount of air groups or airbases but the numbers did not match:



3) In the Torch to Tunesia scenario are red airbases with no groups but also red airbases with air groups without any planes. Why is that. What should I do with them? Will they reinforce over time?



4) Why are some groups purple in the Commander´s Report? The manual says that they are HQ units. Are they HQ units?











< Message edited by Novaliz -- 1/18/2021 4:41:09 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/18/2021 4:09:26 PM   
cfulbright

 

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quote:

1) Night missions are not explained. Whats the purpose of night missions? For example night fighters: Do they only make sense when using with bombers flying at night? In the commander´s report night fighters have a special filter option but there are no night bombers. Is the night a "special" battlefield were only planes assigned to night (or day & night) fight against each other? Are night fighters special trained or can I convert any fighter to a night fighter without any penalties?

On Night missions and Night Fighters:

- No aircraft are limited to night-only missions. A night mission is the confluence of two settings: 1) when you create or edit a air directive (Strategic Bombing, Ground Attack, Superiority), there's a option to set it to Day or Night; and 2) for each air group you can set Mission Setting to Day & Night, Night Only, Day Only, Train, or Rest. As long as air groups are set to either 0 or 1, they can fly night missions.
- Any strategic bombing group can fly night missions, and there is no special training that improves night bombing effectiveness (unlike FB groups that are trained for either Fighter or Bomber). It appears FB-F groups can escort Night bombing missions.
- Superiority AD's have an option to fly Day or "Night Intruder". In the setting they do interceptions but also target enemy aircraft as they're landing. Allied Night Intruder missions are really designed for this.
- Fighters, including Night Fighters, can escort bombing missions. I typically include one Night Fighter squadron with each night bombing mission, but not always

The best Allied use of NF's is to set up Night Intruder AD's. I create an AD in the Hamburg area and one between Hannover and the Ruhr. Make each size 6 so you overlap a lot of German airbases. Make sure you change Day to Night Intruder. I assign two air groups, and set a Req AC of 12. Also make sure Friendly Air Phase only, as you want to rest them during the German turn. If any German NF's come up to attack your night bombing AD's, you have a good chance of getting kills from the Night intruders.

I believe the NF pilots come from a specialized NF fighter pool, so they don't draw from the FB, Rec, or LB pools.

Also, NF's can't do ground attack missions as a bomber, they can only fly day or night Superiority or escort on day or night Strategic and Ground Attack AD's.

Cary




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by cfulbright -- 1/18/2021 4:11:11 PM >

(in reply to Novaliz)
Post #: 2
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/18/2021 4:16:50 PM   
cfulbright

 

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quote:

2) What do the numbers in the red circle and the ratio in the blue circle mean? I was not able to figure it out. I thought amount of air groups or airbases but the numbers did not match:

I've never seen that screen before. Tell me how you got to it and maybe I can figure it out.

Cary

(in reply to Novaliz)
Post #: 3
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/18/2021 4:26:12 PM   
cfulbright

 

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quote:

3) In the Torch to Tunesia scenario are red airbases with no groups but also red airbases with air groups without any planes. Why is that. What should I do with them? Will they reinforce over time?


The red indicates "No Airplanes" rather than no Air groups, as I think you figured out.

Looking at that base, the problem (for the Axis player) is that the base has very little Supply, Fuel, Ammo, or Support. The airbase TOE is 12/12. To get the air base up to 100%, you need to change MAX TOE from Auto to 100. If you do that, the air units should fill out over time.

EXCEPT: There are no planes in the pool for this or any other suitable replacement aircraft model. And the G.50 factory only produces one aircraft a week. So I would do two things: 1) On turn 1 ransfer the group (F10) back to Catania in Sicily. It's a nice big air base with 100% TOE, so the group can recover in peace and not be overrun. 2) On turn 2 swap out the G.20 for either a Falco or Folgore, which have higher production.

But it looks like Italian production and pools are very low in this scenario, so your Italian air groups are going to be starving for planes the whole game.

Cary




(in reply to Novaliz)
Post #: 4
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/18/2021 4:31:23 PM   
cfulbright

 

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quote:

4) Why are some groups purple in the Commander´s Report? The manual says that they are HQ units. Are they HQ units?


In the Commander's Report, color reflects the Mission Type for the air groups. Day & Night, Night Only, and Day Only are light blue. Training is a light purple on my screen. Rest is Yellow.

What screen is this> It doesn't appear to be the CR screen, but shows mostly the same info, just different columns.

Cary

(in reply to Novaliz)
Post #: 5
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/18/2021 9:20:17 PM   
Novaliz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

quote:

2) What do the numbers in the red circle and the ratio in the blue circle mean? I was not able to figure it out. I thought amount of air groups or airbases but the numbers did not match:

I've never seen that screen before. Tell me how you got to it and maybe I can figure it out.

Cary


Thank you for your help. Your comments helped me a lot. You can see the screen when you are in Air Transfer Mode (F10). The red circle must be the numbers of Air Groups and the numbers of Air Bases assigned to that HQ. If I start the Operation Diadem to the Gothic Line 1944 scenario all the numbers in the red circle fit to the number of air groups and air bases assigned BUT what drives me crazy is that when I push AI move/ manage air unit/ air bases (shift - a) the numbers are wrong and in the case of the Tactical Air Force it went crazy. Before pushing (shift - a) the Tactical Air Force has 72 air groups assigned but after pushing (shift -a) the number goes high to 416 Air groups which then no longer corresponds to the number of air groups listed below in the list tree. I do not know from where the air groups are coming? They are not from the 15. US Air Force or Mediterranean Air Force because their air groups stay the same but the number of air bases changed. Any help? This drives me crazy :D

Could the blue circle be the ratio between labor squads and planes to manage which is independent from the percentage an air base can manage depending its size?

< Message edited by Novaliz -- 1/19/2021 2:09:46 PM >

(in reply to cfulbright)
Post #: 6
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/18/2021 9:23:47 PM   
Novaliz


Posts: 227
Joined: 7/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

quote:

4) Why are some groups purple in the Commander´s Report? The manual says that they are HQ units. Are they HQ units?


In the Commander's Report, color reflects the Mission Type for the air groups. Day & Night, Night Only, and Day Only are light blue. Training is a light purple on my screen. Rest is Yellow.

What screen is this> It doesn't appear to be the CR screen, but shows mostly the same info, just different columns.

Cary


When starting the Operation Diadem to the Gothic Line 1944 scenario and you click the commander´s report button you can see that the Tactical Air Force has a lot of air groups shown in purble when you are going to the Air Group tab.

< Message edited by Novaliz -- 1/18/2021 9:24:08 PM >

(in reply to cfulbright)
Post #: 7
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/18/2021 11:54:53 PM   
cfulbright

 

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Novaliz,

Got it.

The numbers in blue are: Left - the number of air groups in the command; and Right - the number of air bases in the command. I sampled exactly two Air HQ's and the numbers checked out.

The numbers in red are: Left - the air support available at the base; and Right - the air support needed at the base.

For your screenshot, given you only have 16 ready planes out of a total of 19 planes at Amendola - which, depending on the scenario may be a Size 3 air base, you have plenty of excess Air Support that would allow you to transfer a lot of air groups there without exceeding capacity.

I learn something new about this game every time I see a question posted; I never noticed those numbers before, but the game designers must have decided they were beneficial.

Cary

(in reply to Novaliz)
Post #: 8
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/19/2021 1:39:09 AM   
Novaliz


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Joined: 7/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

Novaliz,

Got it.

The numbers in blue are: Left - the number of air groups in the command; and Right - the number of air bases in the command. I sampled exactly two Air HQ's and the numbers checked out.



Ok, can you do me a favour and check the first turn of the Operation Diadem to the Gothic Line 1944 scenario and press (shift -a) for the AI move/ manage air unit/ air bases order? I can't explain where the many air groups come from. They go up from 72 to 416? In the next round, this number no longer matches the actual number. I also can not find so many air groups in the commander´s report?! It's crazy.



< Message edited by Novaliz -- 1/19/2021 1:41:10 AM >

(in reply to cfulbright)
Post #: 9
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/19/2021 2:45:55 AM   
cfulbright

 

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I couldn't tell what you meant by "I can't explain where the many air groups come from." I never use the AI move/manage air units and bases function so I'm not familiar with it.

That said, I started the scenario, looked in the CR, and it said I have 88 Allied air groups. Then I pressed Shift-A as you asked, and now I have 72 air groups. If I run the turn, then at the beginning of turn 2 there are 73 Allied air groups.

See the two screen shots showing before and after the Shift-A.

Digging a little further, I see there are 28 US air groups before the Shift-A, and 12 after, so all the missing air units are the US air units, specifically in the Tactical Air Force.

If I rerun the turn but don't press Shift-A, then at the beginning of turn 2 there are 89 Allied air groups.

Is this consistent with what you're seeing?

That seems like a bug to me.

Cary








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< Message edited by cfulbright -- 1/19/2021 2:51:26 AM >

(in reply to Novaliz)
Post #: 10
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/19/2021 3:17:35 AM   
Novaliz


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Joined: 7/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

Is this consistent with what you're seeing?

That seems like a bug to me.

Cary




Yes, I did what you did and I have the same numbers so there are now two options:

1) There is a bug showing the air groups in the air transfer mode when using Shift-a, because also the other HQs have a wrong number compared to their actual air groups in turn 2.



2) This number does not show the air groups which is strange, because in turn 1 it shows the actual air groups.

< Message edited by Novaliz -- 1/19/2021 3:18:14 AM >

(in reply to cfulbright)
Post #: 11
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/19/2021 10:55:45 PM   
cfulbright

 

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I looked at a couple of other scenarios and they didn't have this bug, so it appears to be something in the scenario. I'll post it as a bug in the Beta testers forum and also here.

Cary

(in reply to Novaliz)
Post #: 12
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/20/2021 1:39:05 PM   
Novaliz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

I looked at a couple of other scenarios and they didn't have this bug, so it appears to be something in the scenario. I'll post it as a bug in the Beta testers forum and also here.

Cary


Ah, nice. I wanted to look into the another scenarios too. Thank you! :)

(in reply to cfulbright)
Post #: 13
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/20/2021 5:47:44 PM   
cfulbright

 

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Novaliz,

I uploaded what I think is a fixed Operation Diadem to the Scenario folder. You can find it here: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4944927&mpage=1&key=�. I put it there because I can't upload Zip files in the main forum.

Let me know if it solves your problem. Keep in mind this is NOT a Matrix Games or 2x3 Games supported fix. I'm just a long-time player.

Cary

(in reply to Novaliz)
Post #: 14
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/20/2021 9:29:03 PM   
Novaliz


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Could you find out why many of the air groups of the Tactical Air Force are purple in this scenrio in the Commander´s Report screen? They are definitely not training

(in reply to cfulbright)
Post #: 15
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/20/2021 10:28:00 PM   
cfulbright

 

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It took some investigation and experimentation, but I figured out that they're all in Tactical Air Force and have no Air Directive assigned, and because in the Air Doctrine screen (press "d") for TAF "Auto Naval Patrols" is set to Yes, they get highlighted in grey in the CR. If you change the setting to No they turn light green/blue. And if you change it to Yes for 15th Air Force, those groups turn grey.

Cary

(in reply to Novaliz)
Post #: 16
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/21/2021 1:14:03 AM   
Novaliz


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Ah, thank you! So they are assigned only for naval patrols, right? Can air groups assigned to naval patrols fly other air missions too?

(in reply to cfulbright)
Post #: 17
RE: Questions about air units and air bases - 1/21/2021 1:32:58 AM   
cfulbright

 

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Novaliz,

No. There's a feature in the game that:
1. If you don't assign air groups to specific air directives
2. And those air groups aren't resting or training
3. And you have "Auto Naval Patrol" set to use for the Air HQ they are assigned to

Then those air groups will conduct auto naval patrols from their bases and the air groups meeting all three of those conditions are indicated in grey.

I personally never use Auto Naval Patrol (I only play Allies). The only air groups that aren't assigned to an air directive are either 1) Transports, or 2) morale below 55% (pick your number). Everyone else flies, or rests if the weather is Very Poor.

But others prefer to not be such a micromanager as I am. I can appreciate that.

Cary

(in reply to Novaliz)
Post #: 18
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