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How to keep workers happy in the late game

 
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How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/16/2021 11:16:47 PM   
compactset

 

Posts: 36
Joined: 8/5/2020
Status: offline 		In all my games, after I acquire 3 or more cities and I establish a solid infrastructure with production line which can keep my army operational and supplied the following happens. I construct qualities of life buildings to keep workers happy, my QoL national score rise so minor cities need constantly to be supplied with more QoL improvements otherwise I have a penalty on happiness. But after a while this raises the QoL national score and I need again to invest in the related buildings to keep the workers happy.

This way I cannot keep the number of workers constantly increasing, so I cannot cover industries which are really expensive in manpower demand (like Heavy Industry and so on), I get maluses on the production and fluctuations of outputs pose the risk to send my economy in a downward spiral since I cannot keep up with the resources I require. Thus I had several question about how to keep my worker happiness always high.

1)A solution would be to raise their salaries, but this is very demanding on my bank account. How is the minimum salary to not get the malus "not enough remuneration" calculated? I observed that the more the QoL score raises, the more high this would be. I think it can be deduced by one of the information displayed on the government of the zone tab, but I did not managed to find it. Maybe it is related to the salary of the population, which I do not know where is listed.
2)Is there a solid alternative to continuously raising salaries or the QoL score? Is there a way to keep the QoL score down? Even if I decided not to construct any related building, the private economy would do it in my stead. Also high scores on security and health are useful to avoid danger, so this option seems very risky.
3)Do you have any suggestion about dealing with this problem? The objective is to keep the increase of the number of workers high, is it possible to achieve or should I opt to rationalize my economy to require the less possible number of workers? Do you have the same problem, or you can avoid this somehow?
Post #: 1
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/17/2021 12:07:27 AM   
Soar_Slitherine

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 6/7/2020
Status: online 		You can find the population's average income if you click on the population count in the zone tab of the bottom bar. Worker wages should be higher than this amount if you want to maximize worker happiness, but keep in mind that the workers spend their salaries by buying services from the population, so raising worker wages won't help if the ratio of workers to population in the zone is too high.

(in reply to compactset)
Post #: 2
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/17/2021 1:29:34 AM   
KarisFraMauro

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 12/2/2020
Status: offline 		I have the same problem. I read somewhere it's related to the worker / population ratio. So, maybe not constantly building stuff all the time helps? Like leaving production "fallow" for a while? It seemed to make a difference eventually but that might be my imagination. I've also been following the advice about continually using cabinet retreats and grand conventions, presumeably talented leaders and governors doesn't hurt.

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)
Post #: 3
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/17/2021 10:18:30 AM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

I construct qualities of life buildings to keep workers happy

Wrong way.
QOL will not keep the population or workers happy. It has soem minor effect while Civilisation Score is catching up, but that is about the only effect.

Having a better pay then the Private Workers (see Private Economy part of the city UI) is a major thing. It usually starts at 1 microCredit, but can easily go up to 3. I once saw 7 microCredits for private workers, but that was in a newly colonized town with way to little population.

(in reply to compactset)
Post #: 4
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/17/2021 10:53:21 AM   
Sieppo


Posts: 873
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		I've been wrestling with the same problem lately. Nothing has helped, having a much better pay than the private sector, extreme civ or qol, I just end up having way too few workers and thus famine that kills my army and logistics. But I think I found one solution: the linear tech communication techniques (applied sciences). Dunno if it requires vidcom stations. So far it seems to be working. Note that this tech research will not finish but keeps going.

EDIT: note this is extreme difficulty with all difficulty settings in planet generation. The AI in the latest beta patch is insanely strong. Had to resort to some save scumming ...

< Message edited by Sieppo -- 1/17/2021 11:10:51 AM >

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 5
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/17/2021 10:54:27 AM   
Sieppo


Posts: 873
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		Also high government profile seems to give nice bonuses regarding workers.

< Message edited by Sieppo -- 1/17/2021 11:41:30 AM >

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 6
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/17/2021 1:03:06 PM   
compactset

 

Posts: 36
Joined: 8/5/2020
Status: offline 		The tech communication techniques should just raise the Entertainment score provided by the Vidcom stations. This way you are just indirectly raising your QoL score, which again does not solve the problem. Raising this score on a city raises the national bar so in minor town I get a malus since it has lower scores.

I also noticed that some profiles give you a bonus on worker or population happiness, but I wanted to try to win with whatever profiles I chose. I am currently playing on hard version 1.06.05 so it should be impossible to do this. I have yet to try the new version released.

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 7
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/17/2021 1:16:07 PM   
compactset

 

Posts: 36
Joined: 8/5/2020
Status: offline 		To provide a specific example: in my current capital the private income is 0,002 credits, while my current pay for workers is 0,008. I should receive a massive bonus for worker happiness, but instead I get a malus of -2 points caused by "low remuneration". I can compensate this only with my QoL score higher than the national level.
[img]https://ibb.co/6trLd9y[/img]
[image]https://ibb.co/qFtj04f[/image]
[image]https://ibb.co/0FYBD03[/image]
To sustain these wages I had to impose a very high income tax (should be 50%). I think that this is indirectly working against my project: I suppose that high tax decreases the private income, so the ratio pop/workers is not balanced. But the correct working of the economy is not clear to me: if anyone can see where is my problem and how to fix it he is welcomed to give pointers.

Edit: I cannot manage to make the screenshots appear in my post, so I will just leave the direct links.

< Message edited by compactset -- 1/17/2021 1:25:13 PM >

(in reply to compactset)
Post #: 8
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/17/2021 1:37:38 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 873
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: compactset

The tech communication techniques should just raise the Entertainment score provided by the Vidcom stations. This way you are just indirectly raising your QoL score, which again does not solve the problem. Raising this score on a city raises the national bar so in minor town I get a malus since it has lower scores.

I also noticed that some profiles give you a bonus on worker or population happiness, but I wanted to try to win with whatever profiles I chose. I am currently playing on hard version 1.06.05 so it should be impossible to do this. I have yet to try the new version released.


Yeah I dont know what to do anymore. Might be because of the 40% income tax. There are no explanations of the drop if I hover over the worker happiness tab.




EDIT: also the extreme difficulty could just be the answer.

EDIT2: I have now started to raise thousands of colonists just to transfer them to be workers the next turn. Just to have some food and logistics production in my capital :'D..

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Sieppo -- 1/17/2021 1:43:26 PM >

(in reply to compactset)
Post #: 9
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/17/2021 3:00:48 PM   
newageofpower


Posts: 210
Joined: 12/3/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: compactset

Edit: I cannot manage to make the screenshots appear in my post, so I will just leave the direct links.

This is because you are using the URL of the page of the image, rather than the image. If you are doing it correctly it will end in .[imagefiletype]; usually .png/jpg

(in reply to compactset)
Post #: 10
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/17/2021 5:56:01 PM   
Nagabaron

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 1/16/2021
Status: offline 		I don't have any particular issues with Workers. I think what you should do is talk to your Governor, hover below "Worker Recruitment Mode", and switch it to "Recruit if shortage, never fire."

Perhaps your constantly in a hemorrhaging and bloating loop coupled with Public Worker pay exceeded by the local Private economy.

(in reply to newageofpower)
Post #: 11
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/17/2021 6:01:26 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 873
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nagabaron

I don't have any particular issues with Workers. I think what you should do is talk to your Governor, hover below "Worker Recruitment Mode", and switch it to "Recruit if shortage, never fire."

Perhaps your constantly in a hemorrhaging and bloating loop coupled with Public Worker pay exceeded by the local Private economy.


Switched to recruit never fire a long time ago. Never seen any effect of it.

(in reply to Nagabaron)
Post #: 12
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/17/2021 7:33:55 PM   
Nagabaron

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 1/16/2021
Status: offline 		I think its a combination of things coalescing into that.

Is the Governor happy, any bad events happen, Corruption from said Governor, did you change the Worker pay rapidly down then up? Did you do any Fate cards?

Did you suffer an excessive amount of troop losses past several turns? Are you playing as a Democracy/Parliamentary?

< Message edited by Nagabaron -- 1/17/2021 7:34:52 PM >

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 13
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/18/2021 9:34:43 AM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

To provide a specific example: in my current capital the private income is 0,002 credits, while my current pay for workers is 0,008. I should receive a massive bonus for worker happiness, but instead I get a malus of -2 points caused by "low remuneration".

Do you actually have the money to pay those wages?

Only what is in SHQ/Zone/Regime stores when you hit end-turn can be used for the turns consumption.
Income happens way later, wich can obfuscate that you are actually dropping to 0.

(in reply to compactset)
Post #: 14
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/18/2021 11:27:52 AM   
compactset

 

Posts: 36
Joined: 8/5/2020
Status: offline 		I have the credits displayed in the box in the upper part of the screen, which are well enough to pay the workers. I do not know if the credits should be present in the zone in some way or are taken directly from the ones collected by the government.

What goods should be present in the zone? In my knowledge only food is consumed by population, and I always made sure that there is enough food to sustain the people.
Is the economic model explained in detail in the manual? I do not remember.



(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 15
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/18/2021 12:10:29 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

I have the credits displayed in the box in the upper part of the screen, which are well enough to pay the workers. I do not know if the credits should be present in the zone in some way or are taken directly from the ones collected by the government.

What goods should be present in the zone? In my knowledge only food is consumed by population, and I always made sure that there is enough food to sustain the people.
Is the economic model explained in detail in the manual? I do not remember.


The Credits are shared across the entire empire, but again: You could drop to 0 between paying people and getting taxes in. The UI will not show that.
Take a look at hte zone report, it should have much more detail.

Private Citizens and Private Workers will primarily eat private food, produced by private domes or bought via private credits - and emergency food, if you allowed it and it is needed.

Workers and Soldiers however need Public food, to be produced and delivered to them. Workers can use their money to "buy private food", but this is a major negative happiness factor.

(in reply to compactset)
Post #: 16
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/18/2021 1:09:57 PM   
Culthrasa

 

Posts: 172
Joined: 4/16/2017
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

I have the credits displayed in the box in the upper part of the screen, which are well enough to pay the workers. I do not know if the credits should be present in the zone in some way or are taken directly from the ones collected by the government.

What goods should be present in the zone? In my knowledge only food is consumed by population, and I always made sure that there is enough food to sustain the people.
Is the economic model explained in detail in the manual? I do not remember.


The Credits are shared across the entire empire, but again: You could drop to 0 between paying people and getting taxes in. The UI will not show that.
Take a look at hte zone report, it should have much more detail.

Private Citizens and Private Workers will primarily eat private food, produced by private domes or bought via private credits - and emergency food, if you allowed it and it is needed.

Workers and Soldiers however need Public food, to be produced and delivered to them. Workers can use their money to "buy private food", but this is a major negative happiness factor.


Does lack of food give the "lack of numeration" penalty too? If so.. would it be wise to have a public farm in every zone?

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 17
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/18/2021 3:14:08 PM   
compactset

 

Posts: 36
Joined: 8/5/2020
Status: offline 		No, there should be a specific warning "not enough food" when you hover over the happiness score. It is distinct from "not enough remuneration". Anyway every zone first collects the food produced by its assets, then population and workers consume the food they need. Population eats from the food produced by private assets, while workers use the food of public assets. The option "allow emergency food" in the zone orders tab give the possibility to population to use public food if private resources are not sufficient.

If these needs were satisfied then the zone stores some food in its city (enough for 1-2 days) and sends the rest to the SHQ.

If the food was not enough and there was no sufficient food stored in the zone then the zone ask the required quantity from the SHQ. I am not sure if the food penalty on happiness is applied even if the food arrives from the SHQ but anyway you will consume logistic points to transport the food from the SHQ to the zone. This could clog your logistic network if the deficit is very big, so you should make sure that every zone is self-sufficient as for food production.

(in reply to Culthrasa)
Post #: 18
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/18/2021 3:45:04 PM   
compactset

 

Posts: 36
Joined: 8/5/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
The Credits are shared across the entire empire, but again: You could drop to 0 between paying people and getting taxes in. The UI will not show that.
Take a look at hte zone report, it should have much more detail.

Private Citizens and Private Workers will primarily eat private food, produced by private domes or bought via private credits - and emergency food, if you allowed it and it is needed.

Workers and Soldiers however need Public food, to be produced and delivered to them. Workers can use their money to "buy private food", but this is a major negative happiness factor.


Now I think I get what you are saying: if I have not enough food produced in the public assets then the workers will buy private food, so their actual salary would be lower than the number chosen by me in the zone order. Makes sense but I should not have any problem regarding food. Also I had for tens of turn more than 3k credits in my bank account which is enough to pay the salaries.

I did actually know that there were reports giving detailed breakdowns of the economy of the zones, I will surely look into them and see if I manage to find what is the problem.

Anyway yesterday I decided to lower the income tax from 50% to 40% and after a while the "not enough remuneration" disappeared from a lot of my zones. I do not understand if this was unrelated or more private credits positively influence the workers. This happened in cities in which a lot of private assets where already present, so it should not be related to the construction of new assets.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 19
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/18/2021 4:22:28 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

Anyway every zone first collects the food produced by its assets, then population and workers consume the food they need.

That is utterly wrong, unfortunately:
1st there is a speicifc amount fo resources in the the Storage from last turn. There is also a specific known amount taht will be consumed that turn
2nd the SHQ delivers more resources to the Zone, if the stored amount is less then what is to be consumed. Asuming logistics and SHQ stores allow
3rd consumption happens
4rd Production happens
5th the SHQ retreives resources for next turn. if the Stores and Logistics allow.

Zones will only keep 1 turn of consumption (2 for food) in storage. Some extra storage will be kept if not all excess could be retrieved by the SHQ. All remaining storage unsued will be transfered to the SHQ.
Any sudden increase will have to be satisfied by the SHQ. Production earliest is useable next turn, if the demand for today is known.

quote:

Anyway yesterday I decided to lower the income tax from 50% to 40% and after a while the "not enough remuneration" disappeared from a lot of my zones. I do not understand if this was unrelated or more private credits positively influence the workers. This happened in cities in which a lot of private assets where already present, so it should not be related to the construction of new assets.

Originally there was no effect from taxes, but a recent Update (should be out of beta by now) changed it so Income Taxes are considered to evaluated the Worker pay.
A 50% tax would just about cut the effective Worker Wages in half. It would also drastically limited the amount of Private Money that stays around for "Luxury goods and services" or Private Asset construction.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 1/18/2021 4:24:17 PM >

(in reply to compactset)
Post #: 20
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/18/2021 5:09:31 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 873
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		I think the biggest reason for my previous problems was, that I did not have enough funds end of turn to pay salaries even if the situation at the start of the next turn was positive. Hard to say but at the moment I have almost 100 workers happiness again now that I have some surplus funds end of turn.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 21
RE: How to keep workers happy in the late game - 1/18/2021 6:24:01 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo

I think the biggest reason for my previous problems was, that I did not have enough funds end of turn to pay salaries even if the situation at the start of the next turn was positive. Hard to say but at the moment I have almost 100 workers happiness again now that I have some surplus funds end of turn.

This is a extremely likely Problem.
As I doubt the Economics Cycle will change, the UI needs some work to give you proper warnings about this.

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 22
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