Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

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apbarog
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Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by apbarog »

Just another heart in need of rescue
Waiting on love's sweet charity
An' I'm gonna hold on for the rest of my days
'Cause I know what it means to walk along the lonely street of dreams

And here I go again on my own
Goin' down the only road I've ever known
Like a drifter I was born to walk alone
An' I've made up my mind, I ain't wasting no more time
But here I go again, here I go again,
Here I go again, here I go
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by apbarog »

OPilot will be again be my opponent, as we switch sides. The game setup is the same as before:

Latest AE Official Patch ver. 1.01.24 25 December 2014
Latest Beta Patch ver 1126b 09/17/2016 (game version will show
1.8.11.26b Sep 17 2016)
Big Babes_B_AEScen28_V15.zip
Babes and Extended Map Art Hexes 05_12_14.zip
Babes Extended Map Data with SL 05_12_14.zip

These are the game settings requested:
Fog of War - ON
Advanced Weather - ON
Allied Damage Control - ON
PDU - OFF
Historical First Turn - OFF
Dec 7 Surprise - ON
Reliable USN Torps - OFF
Realistic R&D - OFF
No Unit Withdrawals - OFF
Reinforcements - +/- 60 days
Combat reports - ON
Auto Sub Ops - OFF
TF Move Radius - OFF
Plane Move Radius - OFF
Set all facilities to expand - OFF
Auto Upgrade ships and air - OFF
Accept Air and Ground replacements - OFF
Turn cycle - 1
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by apbarog »

I've completed the first turn as the Japanese.

My tentative over-all strategy for this game is different from any of my previous games as the Japanese. I plan to be very aggressive early on in the South Pacific, taking whatever islands I can and going as far as I can, while still be supported. I want to push further than is expected, further than is really defensible. I want to draw the US carriers into a battle with KB as early in the war as possible. A big push in the South Pacific should do that. I don't plan on heavily defending these gains. I'll defend minimally on the ground while defending more strongly with air and naval assets. I want the US carriers. I'll take whatever else I can destroy. And delaying a build-up in Australia and action in the Solomons would be nice.

Elsewhere, not too much unusual. I'm landing in the Philippines, initially at Aparri, Laong and Vigan. I'll land somewhere near Legaspi in a bit. For Malaya, I'm doing the normal landings while also landing at Kuantan on day one. It's not a day 1 Mersing landing, but it's more than will be expected. Hopefully OPilot thinks that it is within the realm of possibility. I think it is.

Other than the South Pacific, my pace will be measured. There's no rush elsewhere. If things work out just right, the most adventurous I will get is a Ceylon landing, with the objective to be a roadblock to Burma. That may or may not happen.

The big plan is that I'm going for China. When I'm ready to stop expanding, after taking the usual Malaya, Burma, Sumatra, Java etc etc, I'm sending divisions back into China. I know the pain of the Allies in China. I don't know if I will conquer China, or just completely isolate it from Burma and keep it isolated. We'll see.

All of this is tentative, of course. The enemy might have something to say about things.
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by apbarog »

7 Dec 41

Midget subs tried to get into Pearl Harbor. Two succeeded. SSX Ha-22 hit Tennessee with a torpedo, and SSX Ha-18 hit California with a torpedo. That's the best I've ever seen from the tiny subs.

I-157 sank xAKL Dai Tung east of Kota Bharu. That ship starts in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Destroyer Ward left Pearl and headed east. I-3 hit it with a torpedo, sinking the ship that should have been going after the midget subs.

KB moved to a point 6 hexes northwest of Pearl Harbor. This is not a drill.

Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 44 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 66
B5N2 Kate x 144
D3A1 Val x 135

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 12 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 4 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 16 damaged
D3A1 Val: 6 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-1 Dauntless: 27 damaged
SBD-1 Dauntless: 1 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 11 damaged
A-20A Havoc: 1 destroyed on ground
P-40B Warhawk: 17 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 2 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 95 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 2 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 16 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 10 damaged
F4F-3 Wildcat: 7 damaged
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 23 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 1 destroyed on ground
R3D-2: 1 damaged
O-47A: 3 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 10 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 1 destroyed on ground
C-33: 2 damaged
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AE Pyro, Torpedo hits 1
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1
AM Grebe, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
BB California, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 3, on fire
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1
AG Aries, Bomb hits 1
DM Tracy, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1
DM Sicard, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AV Tangier, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1, on fire
PT-27, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
DD Case, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL St. Louis, Torpedo hits 1
AD Dobbin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Cassin, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Repair Shipyard hits 3
Airbase hits 18
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 51
Port hits 21
Port fuel hits 2

Magazine explodes on BB Pennsylvania


All Kates went after the ships in port. Some Vals switched to hitting the airfield to make up for the Kates. The flak was rough. 25 or so bombers and highly trained crews lost. Just one battleship sunk outright, with Pennsylvania exploding. Lots of battleship damage, and more than the average of other ships hit.

Japanese bombers hit Iba, Clark Field and Manila. Some enemy planes destroyed but mostly damaged planes. Iba's field is moderately damaged, but Clark and Manila are barely damaged. Aparri, Laong and Vigan are invaded.

Kates from a CVL hit Davao's port, badly damaging AVD William B. Preston and xAKL Montanes. Davao is invaded.

Sallys and Lilys hit 4 cargo ships in Hong Kong's port and damaged some Walrus aircraft on the ground. Pakhoi and Kwangchowan were invaded. I decided to take out the Allied bases on the Chinese coast right away. Pakhoi is defended by more than planned for.

Alor Star and Georgetown bombed. Buffalos got a few Sallys over Georgetown. Kota Bharu bombed. Kota Bharu and Kuantan are invaded. Allied bombers went after shipping at Kuantan. Zeros on very long LRCAP provided some protection. Bombers got through but mostly targeted the battleships. Kongo was hit by 2 bombs dropped by Swordfish. Haruna was hit by a bomb. None of the bombs did much damage at all.

Miri was invaded.

I went into the war planning on a 2 day attack of Pearl Harbor. I'm going ahead with that plan. Flak losses were high on day 1, and that was with surprise. Flak will be very rough on day 2. Flak is more effective in DBB than in a stock game. It may not be worth all the pilots that I'm going to lose, but I want to sink more battleships. I figure, if it were 6 months from now, and I knew that the enemy battleships were in some port location, and KB could attack it, I would. I'm already right there, so they are going in again.
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by apbarog »

The game may need a restart.

I'm getting the old Mukden bug, where the required garrison is showing 2000 instead of 200. This is a bug in version 14 of DBB which was fixed in version 15.

OPilot and I just finished a game and we're using the same directories for this game. Everything was fine last game, but OPilot was Japanese last game, and I am Japanese this game. It appears that I have the old version of DBB, and it's just showing up now because I'm the Japanese player. My last 2 games were as the Americans, with whatever version of DBB that I have now. I didn't know that my version was old, and apparently it didn't matter.

I'm trying to verify that I indeed am running the old version. Early indications are it is the old version. I'll make sure that his version is 15. I'm fairly sure it has to be, considering that he didn't have this problem in our last game and we are using the same files.

I've read that it may be possible to edit the Mukden garrison in the scenario file and have it update an existing game. But I know that there are other fixes in version 15. I just don't know what they are, and if it's much of a problem to not worry about them.

I suspect that the right answer is to install version 15 and restart the game. I'm discussing this with OPilot and we should come to a conclusion tomorrow. I don't want to do that first turn over again, and I'm sure he doesn't either, but that may be best for the long run.
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by Evoken »

Garrison requirement can be changed with the editor on a started game, i can help you if needed. I dont see a need for you both to re-do entire turn 1 again
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by apbarog »

I am the Japanese player. I'm assuming that I edit the 028 file, the DBB scenario file. Does my opponent need to edit his also?
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by apbarog »

I did a test, copying over the whole game install to a new directory so I could test. I reinstalled the DBB scenario 28 files and started a new game, so that I could check Mukden and see if it looked ok. It did not. Still showed 2000 garrison. I had reinstalled version 15 of DBB-B, downloading BigBabes_B_AEScen028_v15.zip. Didn't seem to help. I don't understand something.

Editing would be easier, assuming that other fixes in version 15 aren't as important as Mukden.
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by apbarog »

I downloaded version 15 of DBB scenario 028, which was file BigBabes_B_AEScen028_v15.zip at: DBB Scenario 28 version 15

I started up a new game and it still had Mukden's 2000 garrison error. I checked the database, and it is still wrong. Is the latest version 15 download still wrong?

In my test install, I then edited scenario 028 and changed Mukden's Japanese garrison requirement to 200 instead of 2000. I started a new game and it worked.

Now I need to test moving over the saved game in progress to the testing install and see if it will update the Mukden garrison in the existing game.

[EDIT: I'm assuming that only the above file is needed for the fix, not the map files]
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by Evoken »

After you do the changes to scenario , when you are in the turn press P and at the bottom game should ask you if it should integrate changes to the scenario , click on that and it will update your existing game. Just send the updated files to your opponent and you should be set , otherwise it might lead to some extra Allied replay desync (anectodal but seems to be the case)
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by apbarog »

ORIGINAL: Evoken

After you do the changes to scenario , when you are in the turn press P and at the bottom game should ask you if it should integrate changes to the scenario , click on that and it will update your existing game. Just send the updated files to your opponent and you should be set , otherwise it might lead to some extra Allied replay desync (anectodal but seems to be the case)

I tested it. When I loaded my turn, which I saved right after watching the replay, but before plotting anything, it asked me about updating. I said yes and it said it was successful. I went into the turn and it indeed changed the garrison to 200.

So you are recommending that I send my edited scenario 028 file to my opponent?
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by apbarog »

I would like someone to look at the latest download for version 15 and see if it fixes the Mukden problem. It didn't for me.


DBB 028 version 15
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by Evoken »

ORIGINAL: apbarog

ORIGINAL: Evoken

After you do the changes to scenario , when you are in the turn press P and at the bottom game should ask you if it should integrate changes to the scenario , click on that and it will update your existing game. Just send the updated files to your opponent and you should be set , otherwise it might lead to some extra Allied replay desync (anectodal but seems to be the case)

I tested it. When I loaded my turn, which I saved right after watching the replay, but before plotting anything, it asked me about updating. I said yes and it said it was successful. I went into the turn and it indeed changed the garrison to 200.

So you are recommending that I send my edited scenario 028 file to my opponent?
Yes you should , matching files are kinda important
Evoken
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by Evoken »

ORIGINAL: apbarog

I would like someone to look at the latest download for version 15 and see if it fixes the Mukden problem. It didn't for me.


DBB 028 version 15
Same for me Mukden has 2k Garrison requirement
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by apbarog »

ORIGINAL: Evoken

ORIGINAL: apbarog

ORIGINAL: Evoken

After you do the changes to scenario , when you are in the turn press P and at the bottom game should ask you if it should integrate changes to the scenario , click on that and it will update your existing game. Just send the updated files to your opponent and you should be set , otherwise it might lead to some extra Allied replay desync (anectodal but seems to be the case)

I tested it. When I loaded my turn, which I saved right after watching the replay, but before plotting anything, it asked me about updating. I said yes and it said it was successful. I went into the turn and it indeed changed the garrison to 200.

So you are recommending that I send my edited scenario 028 file to my opponent?
Yes you should , matching files are kinda important

Will do. I will also post on the tech support about getting someone to check out the download file and see if it is still truly version 15. I asked my opponent to send me his zip file of his version 15 download. We know that his version worked for our last game. It could prove that the current files on the download server aren't what they are supposed to be.

Thank you for your help.
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by apbarog »

OPilot said that he had the Mukden issue in our last game. He moved enough Manchurian units to Mukden to cover the high garrison requirement. We could do the database fix, but we've decided just to continue on. I will move units there also.

The replay for December 8th has been watched. Pearl Harbor was struck on day 2. Results? Same bat time. Same bat channel.
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by apbarog »

8 Dec 41

Troops continue to land at the invasion spots. Disappointingly, enemy minesweepers fleeing Manila immediately find and sweep mines at Lubang, near Bataan. None of the fleeing ships hit mines. They've left Manila, but nothing is spotted.

Japanese ships at Kuantan are most exposed, being closest to Singapore and furthest from a friendly base. 4 Japanese cruisers bombarded Kuantan to good effect. Multiple enemy strikes went after Japanese ships at Kuantan, mostly the battleships. Just 4 Zeros were on very LRCAP, and the Zeros did well until they had to leave. Swordfish, Vildebeests and Hudsons attacked, using torpedoes and bombs. Some strikes had Buffalo escorts. All torpedoes and most bombs missed. One bomb hit Haruna but left just a scratch. Very fortunate. A battleship could easily have been hit by torpedoes. All troops are unloaded and so is enough supply, so the ships will now leave.

Lilys bombed Victoria Point, hitting some Blens on the ground there. Victoria Point took moderate airfield damage. I want to discourage its use as a transfer point to Rangoon.

On Luzon, Vigan is more exposed than Laoag, so I moved the supply convoy from Vigan to Laoag to continue unloading. 3 Japanese cruisers and 2 destroyers remained at Vigan, and fought 6 PT boats during the daytime. One PT was sunk. The PT boats did engage a cargo TF, escorted by a single destroyer, at Vigan, but both sides chose to withdraw.

45 Zeros swept Clark, finding a few P-26As and about 18 P-40s. The Zeros did well. I rested my bombers today, leaving it to the Zeros to reduce the enemy CAP. Other Zeros swept Manila, finding about 36 P-40s, and the Zeros did well here also.

Kates from a CVL sunk xAP Elcano at Cebu. A couple of fleeing cargo ships are spotted east of the Leyte area. But none of the miscellaneous US fighting ships are spotted in the Philippines, and none of the ships that were in Manila are seen.

At Pearl Harbor, 18 Zeros swept and found a non-surprised force of 34 P-36As, 65 P-40Bs and 4 F4F-3s. The Zeros did well but a few were lost. More enemy lost. I should have sent more sweepers. Time for a Day 2 strike of Pearl.

Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 118 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 39 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 72
B5N2 Kate x 107
D3A1 Val x 116

Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 21
P-40B Warhawk x 54
F4F-3 Wildcat x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 5 destroyed, 7 damaged
D3A1 Val: 8 destroyed, 21 damaged
D3A1 Val: 4 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB California, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AV Curtiss, Bomb hits 1
DMS Zane, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 7, on fire
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 1
AV Wright, Bomb hits 1
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
DM Gamble, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Repair Shipyard hits 7
Port hits 9
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 1


No torpedoes dropped. Some big bombs dropped by the Kates. Lots of smaller Val bombs did little to the battleships. Stoked the fires on the battleships but didn't sink anything outright. Losses weren't outrageous. It was acceptable. KB will now head towards Wake to cover a landing there, then on to Truk.

Kuantan is captured, as is Kota Bharu, Miri, Vigan, Aparri and Laoag. On the Chinese coast, Kwangchowan is captured. Pakhoi will be attacked today. It should have been attacked already, but apparently the message didn't get through.

Air losses for the day were:

28 P-40E
22 P-40B
15 P-36A
12 Vildebeest II
5 Blen
4 P-26A
4 Swordfish
4 Buffalo
3 Hudson

for the cost of:

25 Val (9 flak)
12 Kate
7 Zero


I started work on the Japanese economy and production. Need to draw supply to a number of cities in Japan to make the aircraft research changes I want. This is a MUCH more difficult job with PDU-OFF. Anticipating how many airframes are needed at any given time in the future is nearly impossible, with units having their own set of upgrade plans, or none at all. I'll be reacting more to needs as I go. There's no switching everything to Tojos and Helens and streamlining production. Need to keep many less effective aircraft in production. It's a more interesting air war with PDU-OFF, but quite a challenge for the Japanese to plan for.

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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by apbarog »

8 Dec 41 - Malaya

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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by IdahoNYer »

Looking forward to keeping tabs on your progress here apbarog as Large Slow Target and I also reversed roles and just started last month or so.

Do you have any noteworthy house rules?

Also, curious why you chose to land at Kuantan - slow progress inland from there. Good 2nd PH strike - where's KB going after Truk?

In any case Good Luck to the Red Team!
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RE: Deja Vu All Over Again - apbarog(J) vs OPilot(A)

Post by IdahoNYer »

Looking forward to keeping tabs on your progress here apbarog as Large Slow Target and I also reversed roles and just started last month or so.

Do you have any noteworthy house rules?

Also, curious why you chose to land at Kuantan - slow progress inland from there. Good 2nd PH strike - where's KB going after Truk?

In any case Good Luck to the Red Team!
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