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my 50 cent - 8/15/2003 1:30:25 AM   
Khushrenada

 

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well... first i thought cool music...
well, the grafic would have been cool 15 years ago...

nevertheless i started playing. first few missions were ok. then i got this mission 5 thingy... my 3 scouts against 4 LIGHT titans... well, the mission goal was to rush through those guys... ok i tried...
everytime i tried i got beaten up by this fellow with his large lasers, firing all over the map bombing me back to stone age....

i finally managed to make it through but one pilot died. i thought, "ok lets start over again, it must be possible to do it without losing a pilot or titan"
there was my mistake... the squad data was already saved and because you get sooooooo MUCH money on this missions i`m not able to buy myself another titan and pilot.
next mission is not playable with 2 scouts...

so the whole campain is scrapped and i have to start all over again... what if this happens in map 15???
starting all over again, cause the squad data is saved unchangeable all the time? great concept to annoy people...
also "exiting an battle" (maybe because you cannot continue playing? you ever thought of something like this might happen to people with a life...) leads to MIA status of all your pilots... *lol*!!!!!!
and again you can start all over...

well, i think this game had some potential... on the strategic side... but with all this annoying stuff around it... no thanks!
Post #: 1
- 8/15/2003 2:51:16 AM   
Iskandar

 

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shrug, if you need to exit the battle, there is this neat feature. It is called saving your game.

then when you come back, there is this other neat feature, called loading your game.
heck, the game even autosaves your game every few seconds, just in case.


as far as saving the squad data, yeah, that can get kinda irritating. there, is however, a fairly easy cheat to get around it.

in your titans of steel folder, there should be a folder called data. inside of that folder should be a folder called squads.

there should be 1 to 4 files there named squadA.dat, squadB.dat etc.

just copy the appropriate squad file somewhere safe before a hard mission. if you really screw up, or wish to try again, copy it back, and voila, instant back up.


it is a cheat. but a fairly mild one if you don't abuse it.

I personally back up my squad every 5 battles or so, or before a battle that i know is going to be rough.

(in reply to Khushrenada)
Post #: 2
- 8/15/2003 3:02:08 AM   
Voidhawk

 

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There are a couple of things you can do to avoid losing your jocks and titans:

-Save at the start of each battle, and if things don't go your way, restore the game before you finish the mission and try again.

-Copy your squad data file to a new location and restore it later if you don't like the way the fight turned out.

Losing jocks and titans is very much a part of ToS. That's why the game doesn't make it easy for a player to get away with everything he would like to. If you'd rather play it in a way it was not intended to be played, it's easy enough to take one or both of the above precautions; and it is your game after all, so the only important thing is that you play it the way you most enjoy playing it. "Cheating" is a term I reserve exclusively for multiplayer.

But it is a hardcore game, and one that's definitely not for the easily annoyed. It takes lots of patience to succeed at crafting the perfect custom squad. This is not a game of instant gratification, but it is flexible enough so you can make it one with a little effort (or at least keep it from annoying you ;)).

When I was going through the rookie campaign, I would do a few random battles in between some of the missions to keep my money and jock skills at competitive levels. Always have some money put back for those rainy days!

Jocks who are MIA are still in the battle you left them in when you saved and exited. Restore the game and they will still be there, awaiting your orders. You can also pay LOTS of money to extract them if you have it.

Better luck on your next attempt, Commander!

(in reply to Khushrenada)
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- 8/15/2003 9:00:12 AM   
rosary

 

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Have your jock with the highest movement skill and recon without a negative modifier to the movement cross straight over the water. New jocks look at water as a hazard and avoid it. Don't fall into this trap. Whichever jock succeeds at this will have a nice experience boost.

If you're afraid you'll fall and never get up save before you start running across. Or if you time it right just use jump jets and go kitty corner. Mission 5 is one of the easiest to win. You actually don't even have to fight at all.

Remember to save your game and run the water. If you're far enough away from the enemy they will target toward 'Suthira'.

You'll beat the level when you reach the exit zone.
Press E to have it come up on your tactical map. Notice I wrote E and not e.

And Map 15 or Map 1 of 'The metaborator' is a lot of fun. By the time you get to it and past it, Your squad will feel mighty.

There is also an autosave and 9 save game slots. use this. OR rescue them in HQ. I've beaten the map with only one recon.
At that point I didn't see any point at making it easier.

(in reply to Khushrenada)
Post #: 4
- 8/15/2003 11:19:54 AM   
Voidhawk

 

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I guess I must've gotten lucky or something, I beat that mission on my first try and never even saw the right side of the map. I stayed right around the mountain where Suthira airdrops and picked the bad guys off as they came at me.

I had 2 lights and 2 recons. Three of my guys got smacked down pretty good, but with Suthira's help we pulled it out with no losses.

Had to do a couple of random battles after that to get my cash flow back up though.

(in reply to Khushrenada)
Post #: 5
Re: my 50 cent - 8/15/2003 1:08:25 PM   
LarkinVB

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Khushrenada
[B]well, i think this game had some potential... on the strategic side... but with all this annoying stuff around it... no thanks! [/B][/QUOTE]

Sad that you didn't consider one of the multiple options to avoid being annoyed. Its not the game, its a lack of knowing the alternatives.

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- 8/15/2003 4:05:24 PM   
Thorgrim

 

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Don't go expanding your squad too soon. Keep at 3 jocks till the end (or close) of campaign 1.

There's a patch of trees in the lower left corner of the map in Gunner's Bridge. It's not there for cosmetic reasons :D
Hide there, the AI will target Suthira, cross the quicksand. Then spring out, and either head for the exit, or pound them from across the water/quicksand.

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Post #: 7
- 8/15/2003 6:47:44 PM   
Khushrenada

 

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thx for the advice, the bad thing is my savegame is already screwed...

i finished the mission just to see what exactly it takes to finish it and the game saved my squads with the lost jokey and titan... everytime i load a savegame and retry the mission now, i get the same endresult: titan and jokey lost... :(

its ok when there is a possibility to "save" your squad by copying the data to another location, but it still seems like some sort of bug to me...
it seems a little odd to me when a player has to take such steps to be able to make it through a "rookie" campaign...

maybe if i find some time and will i restart from mission 1....

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Post #: 8
- 8/15/2003 7:27:11 PM   
LarkinVB

 

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Perhaps the map is a bit to hard and should get the internal 'Retry Mission' flag which allows to replay without saving the losses.

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Post #: 9
- 8/15/2003 8:36:40 PM   
AStott

 

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I think it would be really nice to have that retry flag as optional. I can see the usefulness of it for some people, but personally, I want to take my lumps as they come. If I lose, I want to accept the consequences. Perhaps if you lose a mission with that flag it'll ask you at the end of the game if you want to save the results...

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Post #: 10
- 8/15/2003 8:59:28 PM   
Khushrenada

 

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well, it says at the end of the missoin "accept it or try to replay the mission" or something like that... the problem is, you simply CAN`T replay it, cause you don`t have the option to do so...

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Post #: 11
- 8/15/2003 11:42:03 PM   
Rebel Yell


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by AStott
[B]I think it would be really nice to have that retry flag as optional. I can see the usefulness of it for some people, but personally, I want to take my lumps as they come. If I lose, I want to accept the consequences. [/B][/QUOTE]

Amen.

This is not a game with a beginning and an end, like your little xbox games. This is a sim-u-la-tion of combat. In combat, you don't always get to heroically stomp the enemy, make gobs of cash, and pilot 8 assault mechs within 14 minutes of engaging the enemy.

I have never had any interest in playing a game that requires replaying anything if you fail, because you're just a monkey pushing buttons until the endgame is reached. Hey,...wow,...great,....that was satisfying. Can't wait for "Scripted Adventure Game II" to come out.

I respectfully suggest that anyone that hasn't played for several hours doing hotseat, randoms, etc, shouldn't expect to start a campaign and do anything but die.

That being said, all games must have maximum customer friendliness if they want to succeed commercially, and being able to save, restore, whatever it takes, is a necessary evil. Folks who actually like the challenge of winning without a crutch just won't use it.

Sorry if this sounds like a flame, but,...well,...it is. Its a flame against the mindset that you have the right to succeed, rather than the priviledge to try.

/rant off

(in reply to Khushrenada)
Post #: 12
- 8/16/2003 2:14:21 AM   
AStott

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Khushrenada
[B]well, it says at the end of the missoin "accept it or try to replay the mission" or something like that... the problem is, you simply CAN`T replay it, cause you don`t have the option to do so... [/B][/QUOTE]
This didn't happen to me when I lost the first mission of the Savannah campaign. It just had an exit "button".

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Post #: 13
- 8/16/2003 2:41:11 AM   
Lypheus

 

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Maybe I'm a bit hardcore, but I like to play ToS "as she flies", meaning if ya die or lose a titan - so be it.

I finished JA2 this way (after being a panzy the first time), and man o man was THAT hard.

But how gratifying ....

My only exception to this rule in most games is if you do something by accident (i.e. it is easy to accidently end a turn in JA or Fallout for instance) ... thats annoying and in most games your buggered anyhow.

Anyhow, be a man and take it!

(in reply to Khushrenada)
Post #: 14
- 8/16/2003 5:26:58 AM   
Khushrenada

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by AStott
[B]This didn't happen to me when I lost the first mission of the Savannah campaign. It just had an exit "button". [/B][/QUOTE]

right happened to me also... but there is no "replay" button... if you hit the exit button, your squad gets saved (actually i think the squads are already saved at that screen, what makes a replay button useless...) as it is then... means if you loose an pilot and titan, it is gone for good as often you try to "replay" it by loading a saved game...

besides, a game is a game... it is supposed to make fun... fun is only if you win after all...
it is also a matter of fact, that not all people are the reincarnation of Rommel or any other great tactician and for those people there should be somewhat like difficulty level chooseable....
where "easy" is EASY and "nightmare" is what you can expect of its title...
so everyone would be able to play the game for his most fun...

p.s.: if you guys want something so realistic without a saveoption, why don`t you just join the military??? you will get lots of realism there and you have to take what you get...
i for myself want to play a GAME....
besides you don`t have to use a save option, if you don`t like it...

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- 8/16/2003 5:30:57 AM   
LarkinVB

 

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Seems we should agree to disagree.

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Post #: 16
Re: Re: my 50 cent - 8/16/2003 6:04:44 AM   
RamaLlama

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by LarkinVB
[B]Sad that you didn't consider one of the multiple options to avoid being annoyed. Its not the game, its a lack of knowing the alternatives. [/B][/QUOTE]

Hmmm... I think the point here is that the game doesn't make the options obvious enough for newbie players.

I think some people have been playing this game for so long that they forget what it's like to have to try to figure it out from scratch.

When the game was shareware/freeware, I think gamers expect to put some work into figuring a game out and will forgive quite a bit. Once they plunk down 30 bucks at EB for a packaged game, however, people have much less patience for things that aren't absolutely clear.

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Post #: 17
- 8/16/2003 1:01:25 PM   
LarkinVB

 

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I think that its pretty obvious that you can save a game or retrieve the squad in the hq. You do have to read the manual of course. If you are a player jumping right into the game, building a squad and playing the campaign you shouldn't wonder that your squad gets wipped out soon. This has nothing to do with the retail price. I can understand the frustration but that won't make me add a autosave squad before battle function. Lots of players do think the game is fun because you have to care for your squad and what you are doing. I had battles were I recognized that I couldn't win and retreated to the map borders and saved the rest of my squad. There is some danger loosing the squad and thats part of the game. Some players can call it bad design others do like it.

Perhaps you are right and we should have added a special rookie section in the manual. But I guess that some players whould still start without reading it and would get frustrated loosing their first squad.

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- 8/16/2003 3:34:21 PM   
Thorgrim

 

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Exactly. s complete as a manual may be, people will always start playing first and maybe, just maybe, read it after. And still some people will complain the info is not there, even if it actually is.
One of the first things the manual says is F1 will show help screens almost anywhere in the game. Lots of people missed this. It also says the tutorial explains in detail the intrincacies (?) of combat.

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Iceman

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Post #: 19
- 8/16/2003 4:38:21 PM   
PrinceCorrin

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Khushrenada
[B]right happened to me also... but there is no "replay" button... if you hit the exit button, your squad gets saved (actually i think the squads are already saved at that screen, what makes a replay button useless...) as it is then... means if you loose an pilot and titan, it is gone for good as often you try to "replay" it by loading a saved game...

besides, a game is a game... it is supposed to make fun... fun is only if you win after all...
it is also a matter of fact, that not all people are the reincarnation of Rommel or any other great tactician and for those people there should be somewhat like difficulty level chooseable....
where "easy" is EASY and "nightmare" is what you can expect of its title...
so everyone would be able to play the game for his most fun...

p.s.: if you guys want something so realistic without a saveoption, why don`t you just join the military??? you will get lots of realism there and you have to take what you get...
i for myself want to play a GAME....
besides you don`t have to use a save option, if you don`t like it... [/B][/QUOTE]

Well I don't presume to be a reincarnation of Rommel. Hey Rommel lost. How about that ...
But anyway. The reason ToS is the way it is has already been mentioned. It's a simulation game. It's a HARDCORE simulation game. There are ways around this. They take effort on your part. They've already been explained.
By the way, I am in the military.
And games are not only fun if you win. I don't know if you play Chess, but if you go into that kinda game expecting to win every game against everybody you come accross you are not going to have any fun at it. Ever.
Same with ToS. When you win, hooray!. It means you did what you were supposed to do when you lost. You know what I do when I lose all my jocks in a horrible fireball of nukelear death?
I learn.
How the **** did that happen? That's what I ask. Then I say, Oh. Well maybe I won't do that next time.
And I start again.
Now in reference to your reference to Rommel. The desert fox was beaten by George Patton.
You know how Patton beat him?
He read Rommel's book.

_____________________________

I see your lips moving, but all I hear is: Blah Blah Blah, I'm a friggin moron.

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Post #: 20
Re: Re: Re: my 50 cent - 8/16/2003 4:43:35 PM   
PrinceCorrin

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by RamaLlama
[B]When the game was shareware/freeware, I think gamers expect to put some work into figuring a game out and will forgive quite a bit. Once they plunk down 30 bucks at EB for a packaged game, however, people have much less patience for things that aren't absolutely clear. [/B][/QUOTE]

So what ur saying is:
Free stuff is for smart people. And only dullards buy it at EB, so you hafta use really small words? You insult the intelligence of too many people just because they pay for it I think.

I thought the manual was very clear.

Don't mind me, I'm havin a bad day.

_____________________________

I see your lips moving, but all I hear is: Blah Blah Blah, I'm a friggin moron.

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Post #: 21
- 8/16/2003 9:41:12 PM   
Khushrenada

 

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hmm reading the manual is the final cure isn`t it...?

i don`t see how that helps me in setting a non existant difficulty level or change the fact, that my squad data gets saved everytime i don`t want to...

i`m a person, that plays a game on the easy mode first time, to just see what the game "has to offer"... in a relaxed atmosphere... THEN i play it through again, on a challanging difficulty... unfortunatelly its not possible to do here.

i just think nowadays the game AI has to be settable to a state, that every player is able to find a setting suitable for him to have fun HIS WAY... otherwise the product won`t sell, except to those guys fitting in the very close range of gamers that like it how it is...

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Post #: 22
- 8/16/2003 11:40:33 PM   
rosary

 

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n/t

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Post #: 23
- 8/16/2003 11:47:07 PM   
rosary

 

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Here's is a jpg of me starting my run past the evil enemies. Dont mind the desert background.

Notice all the enemy are zeroing in on Suthira. If timed right you can just run past them on land. If not timed exactly right just cross the water. If you have better than 47% to pass your move skill check you should be o.k. Maybe save before just in case you have a stroke of severely bad luck.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 24
- 8/16/2003 11:48:26 PM   
LarkinVB

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Khushrenada
[B]hmm reading the manual is the final cure isn`t it...?

i don`t see how that helps me in setting a non existant difficulty level or change the fact, that my squad data gets saved everytime i don`t want to...
[/B][/QUOTE]

OK. I try it a last time. The game offers to play the tutorial to learn. Afterwards it does offer random battles were you can set the difficulty level to your liking. You can set your team to hero rank and the enemy to rookie. You can give yourself additional 100% weight advantage.


[QUOTE][B]i`m a person, that plays a game on the easy mode first time, to just see what the game "has to offer"... in a relaxed atmosphere... THEN i play it through again, on a challanging difficulty... unfortunatelly its not possible to do here.

[/B][/QUOTE]


As I stated above you can EXACTLY do that. Its in the game, at your fingertips, right now.

Instead you did choose to do it the hard way, building a squad which obviously started at rookie rank. Ok, you could have choosen to play a random battle with it, still with 100% weight advantage. But no, you selected to play the campaign and now your are sad that you lost your squad and couldn't play it at sub rookie AI rank to make it real easy.

Dear Khushrenada, you CAN complain that the manual should have made it more obvious how to learn but you can't prove that it can't be done. Instead of learning the lesson you try to convince me that its all the fault of the game. Sorry, its not.

Come on, lets go on. I wish this topic to be closed and offer you to do the final statement so noone can accuse me to be eager to have the final word.

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Post #: 25
- 8/17/2003 12:02:34 AM   
cyavhn

 

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i am by no means a seasoned player...i play casually because the game requires some degree of intelligence, and when you get a good game it has the feel of chess moves to it...when i started 1.4 i was a little daunted by the complexity of it...real information overload...but i learned by degrees and when i got to understand something in the game i went back to the manual and read and reread...that`s the way to learn...even then i was using cheats because it was just too hard to spends hours of of brainstrain and get it wiped out in a ToS minute...losing easily in the beginning is more due to the fact that the nOOb does not understand the basic moves than any deficiency in the game...ok...i looked at the new manual and i can see that somebody seeing it for the first time will get info overload syndrome, but heh, the manual is linear perception, the game itself is layered, so just try to understand basic concepts and you`ll soon be serving headsup soup at your own diner...in WS, starting my first squad of jocks was ridiculously easy with the weight ratio at +50%...so i think if the nOOb just hangs in there, he`ll be okay... :D

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Post #: 26
- 8/17/2003 12:30:45 AM   
rosary

 

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n/t

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Post #: 27
- 8/17/2003 7:11:11 AM   
Khushrenada

 

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erm... ok... now i`m wrong to choose the campaign.... stupid me... i actually searched for some story line in here... my bad...

i know that i can play skirmish games and scenarios with this settings, but i was talking about playing the CAMPAIGN in various difficulty levels...

i wanted to build my squad up and see their skills improve... not just setting them on elite and play just single scenarios.

one last thought to those who like the realism... how realistic is it to move into a campaign, then get out of it, do some other battles and then move back in...? just tell your foe "hey mate wait a few weeks, we are right back after we did some other jobs... just wait for us..."

but as you said, we seem neither to be able to agree on something nor can we understand each other as it seems, this leads to nothing, so i`ll rest my case.

(in reply to Khushrenada)
Post #: 28
- 8/17/2003 8:37:37 AM   
rosary

 

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To beat c1m5 do the following.

When you get to the exit zone the following happens
1- a transmission comes to you from master suthira saying exit the map and he'll take care of the enemies.
2-Close this incoming message.
3-A popup window pops up:) and asks Do you want to flee the battle?
4-Choose NO
5- Don't exit the map. If you turn left or right you will win this map and get the reward.

(in reply to Khushrenada)
Post #: 29
- 8/17/2003 10:25:59 AM   
Neekirul

 

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If you just hit F7 and save at the beginning of every battle you really can't go wrong. You can always then replay it if it doesn't end the way you wish.

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Post #: 30
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