Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

How does the gear get to the rear?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> How does the gear get to the rear? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/21/2020 11:22:47 PM   
Randy Stead


Posts: 454
Joined: 12/23/2000
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
I hope to finish reading the manual tonight. A few things came up today at home to derail my plan to start playing today.

I've been through the replacements and reinforcement sections and have an idea of how it works. It seems to me that the new stuff from the "production" in the U.S. and elsewhere goes into pools. Stuff like new planes, equipment and replacement personnel for LCUs. My understanding is that it flows to the units that need them by going through HQs, correct? At-sea carriers get new planes by going back to base or having them flown out to them from a "truck" carrier.

My puzzlement has to do with trying to envision, "in the game" how a replacement squad, say of Marines, gets from the personnel pool [where is it in the game, is it an abstract concept] to its ultimate home. Do you have to physically load up a bunch of FNGs [f* new guys] from San Diego, put them on a ship and then send them to an HQ somewhere in the Pacific, from whence they flow through the pipeline? Or does the game take care of that through an out of sight routine? I'm just trying to see in my mind how the new aviator or grunt gets from the mainland to where he is needed somewhere like Guadalcanal or Tarawa.

< Message edited by Randy Stead -- 12/21/2020 11:24:24 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/21/2020 11:30:20 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3332
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
Marines, in your example, pop out of existence from supply.

The aviators have a super efficient transport service that can get them where they need to be in a few turns at most.

(in reply to Randy Stead)
Post #: 2
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/22/2020 2:06:47 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3242
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

.... how a replacement squad, say of Marines, gets from the personnel pool [where is it in the game, is it an abstract concept] to its ultimate home. .


You also need to differentiate replacements from upgrades. In both cases, imagine you have an able staff of Majors and Sergeants whose job it is to predict what will be needed where, and when, and they sort out what a supply point is made up of for any specific destination. You do have some tools available to influence this - the unit controls (replacements and upgrade switches) and the pool controls (stockpiling switches). How you can pull those levers is something that can be explained by looking at some upgrading examples.

Squads a re a special case - squads include infantry squads, combat engineer squads, LMG squads Vickers squads, etc. When enough new squads are available, there is enough supply, etc etc, the new squad replaces the old squad, and as Andymac describes it, at the end of the process the progam puts the old 42 squads back into the pools but converting them into new 43 squads on the way in. So basically what is happening here is that the net effect is your 1942 marines are converted into 1943 marines squads - think of it as them being issued with new M1 garands, a higher ratio of automatic weapons etc.

There are a couple of phases in the day when those device upgrades can take place, and if the stars align, and you have a division's worth of 1943 marine squads in the pool, you can get a cascade of upgrades all through your marine divisions, defence battalions, and USN bases. There is, in theory, a possibility they can all upgrade in a day... but in practice that won't happen.

Other devices - tanks, guns, radars etc - I suggest you you turn those to stockpile in the device pools screens, because the old ones are put in a depot somewhere for use by other units. And only release them in two situations:

(a) You have upgrades globally turned off. Globally turn off all stockpiling. Turn replacements on in the units you actually want to get them - e.g. there are certain west coast US units that eventually withdraw out of theatre. Unless the IJ invade the CONUS, keep replacements and upgrades off. Before you start handing out equipment upgrades, globally turn everything off replacements or upgrades and pick the units you want the supply driven system to prioritise to get it done quicker.

(b) When you are dealing with scarce commodities like tanks things get fiddly...

You want to upgrade a tank brigade's tanks. For this example we will use the Indian 254th tank brigade. It starts in Hyderabad or possibly over at Ahmadabad, and takes many months to build up to WE* and train to combat readiness. It starts with, IIRC, improvised AFVs (civilian trucks masquerading as armoured cars, substituted for tanks for training). So you set it to the future objective of Mandalay on day 1, and many months later when PP allow, swap in an aggressive brigadier with a good land rating to command it in battle.(*War Establishment, the Commonwealth equivalent of TOE.)

At the beginning of the war you started with very few available Commonwealth tanks. Over time tanks dribble in at monthly rate, and more importantly convoys arrive at (usually) Capetown which include battalion multiple sized blocks of Valentines, Stuarts & General Lees, etc. So, you start with those all stockpiled. At some point you will have enough in the pool to outfit a brigade.

Once the 254th Brigade has trained up over the 50 mark, and you put a decent CO in to move things along, you decide to replace its improv AFV, light and heavy, with proper tanks. In order to make sure it all goes to plan you need to do this -

1. Turn off upgrades/replacements for all Indian and British armoured units, globally.

2. If you are replacing the armoured car elements with Humbers/Daimlers as well, then you also need to globally turn off Aust/NZ/Canadian and Dutch armoured units replacements (and even then there are some base forces and infantry units that have armoured cars, so to be sure turn the whole of the Commonwealth armies off upgrades/replacements).

3. Open the editor, look at the 254th armoured brigade devices in its location entry, then look at those devices in the device list, and check their upgrade path to make sure you are 5x5. IIRC, you are looking at the light tank element upgrading to Stuart 1s, and the medium tanks to General Lees.

4. Note that those upgrades may themselves have upgrades, and if you leave the latter turned on, there are two phases in a day so you may end up with something you didn't intend, therefore have everything stockpiled except the immediate upgrade (Stuart 1 & General Lee, and possibly Humber armoured cars).

5. Make sure that there is plenty of supply available (although the big ports like Bombay and Madras will throw devices to other cities to provide the upgrade).

6. Turn the 254th to upgrades on, and you may as well have replacements on.

Run turn.

If all goes according to plan, you should have organised a controlled issue of new tanks to that brigade, only.

< Message edited by Ian R -- 12/22/2020 2:14:54 AM >


_____________________________

"You may find that having is not so nearly pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
- Cdr Spock


Ian R

(in reply to Randy Stead)
Post #: 3
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/22/2020 3:40:50 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7474
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

*War Establishment, the Commonwealth equivalent of TOE.


Good, learned something today.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 4
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/22/2020 8:58:32 AM   
Ambassador

 

Posts: 1674
Joined: 1/11/2008
From: Brussels, Belgium
Status: offline
Excellent post, Ian R !
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R
1. Turn off upgrades/replacements for all Indian and British armoured units, globally.

This really must be the default state of all LCU’s, it can never be stressed enough how important this is. You turn them on, let them finish upgrading/replacing, then turn them off before shipping them back to combat.

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 5
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/22/2020 10:42:20 AM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

Excellent post, Ian R !
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R
1. Turn off upgrades/replacements for all Indian and British armoured units, globally.

This really must be the default state of all LCU’s, it can never be stressed enough how important this is. You turn them on, let them finish upgrading/replacing, then turn them off before shipping them back to combat.


The same goes for air units, especially restricted ones.. Set them to upgrade carelessly, and your pool of carefully scraped together P-38E's and B-17E's will spent the rest of the war in Stockton.

(in reply to Ambassador)
Post #: 6
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/22/2020 11:25:33 AM   
Randy Stead


Posts: 454
Joined: 12/23/2000
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
Just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly. Is it suggested playing with the option to accept replacements and upgrades turned off at the game start option panel, then turn them on individually? I think that's what is being suggested. In other words, if you start with everything turned off and then only turn it on for the vital front units, they will get the priority for replacements and upgrades. That would be the logical deduction.

Sorry for being thick.

(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 7
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/22/2020 11:36:16 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3242
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

Just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly. Is it suggested playing with the option to accept replacements and upgrades turned off at the game start option panel, then turn them on individually?



Yes. Do it. Otherwise all the good kit will end up in units that don't need it.

_____________________________

"You may find that having is not so nearly pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
- Cdr Spock


Ian R

(in reply to Randy Stead)
Post #: 8
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/22/2020 12:05:55 PM   
Randy Stead


Posts: 454
Joined: 12/23/2000
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

Just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly. Is it suggested playing with the option to accept replacements and upgrades turned off at the game start option panel, then turn them on individually?



Yes. Do it. Otherwise all the good kit will end up in units that don't need it.


Got it, thanks. Yes, makes sense. Why should some basa walla 1500 miles behind the lines get the newest gear?

So, I will turn off in the start options:

Auto upgrade of ships and air groups

Accept air and ground replacements

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 9
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/22/2020 2:39:27 PM   
Ambassador

 

Posts: 1674
Joined: 1/11/2008
From: Brussels, Belgium
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

Just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly. Is it suggested playing with the option to accept replacements and upgrades turned off at the game start option panel, then turn them on individually?



Yes. Do it. Otherwise all the good kit will end up in units that don't need it.


Got it, thanks. Yes, makes sense. Why should some basa walla 1500 miles behind the lines get the newest gear?

So, I will turn off in the start options:

Auto upgrade of ships and air groups

Accept air and ground replacements

That’s it.

Use Tracker, check your devices, and when you get a certain number, check the pool history to see which units require them, and pick the right ones to turn replacements on (same with upgrades, except you check the units which have the device upgrading to the new one).

« Right » units to fill are those which you’ll keep and use to the end. Static restricted to the West Coast ? Useless, unless your opponent invades Canada. Unit has a withdrawal date ? Check the date, and only fill if you get to use it for a long enough time (this is personal appreciation, to each his own). Choice between two units ? Check the one which will be more immediately useful (namely, XP, morale, location).

If air units, remember to move the pilots. Moving the pilots doesn’t require any PP, and never send rookies to the front (especially with those brand new P-38’s).

(in reply to Randy Stead)
Post #: 10
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/22/2020 10:08:38 PM   
Moltrey


Posts: 285
Joined: 4/11/2010
From: Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador
That’s it.

Use Tracker, check your devices, and when you get a certain number, check the pool history to see which units require them, and pick the right ones to turn replacements on (same with upgrades, except you check the units which have the device upgrading to the new one).

« Right » units to fill are those which you’ll keep and use to the end. Static restricted to the West Coast ? Useless, unless your opponent invades Canada. Unit has a withdrawal date ? Check the date, and only fill if you get to use it for a long enough time (this is personal appreciation, to each his own). Choice between two units ? Check the one which will be more immediately useful (namely, XP, morale, location).

If air units, remember to move the pilots. Moving the pilots doesn’t require any PP, and never send rookies to the front (especially with those brand new P-38’s).


RS:
The Kull spreadsheet does a pretty good job of first turn air unit recommendations, if he suggests you Disband an air group, he is good at reminding you to "send the pilots to the pool FIRST!", then disband, which can earn you precious Political Pts.
Unfortunately, WITP:AE is a rather complex game, sometimes a bit complicated too. I generally start a Allied Cmpn and then play a few turns or weeks, then - "lessons" in hand, start over if I am feeling a different strategy path might work better. I keep a separate copy of Kull's spreadsheet with my "improvements/modifications" that is my personal guide. Then I always have the original as reference and backup.

Cheers! Good luck and keep plugging, you will get there eventually.

(in reply to Ambassador)
Post #: 11
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/22/2020 10:23:35 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 17645
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador
That’s it.

Use Tracker, check your devices, and when you get a certain number, check the pool history to see which units require them, and pick the right ones to turn replacements on (same with upgrades, except you check the units which have the device upgrading to the new one).

« Right » units to fill are those which you’ll keep and use to the end. Static restricted to the West Coast ? Useless, unless your opponent invades Canada. Unit has a withdrawal date ? Check the date, and only fill if you get to use it for a long enough time (this is personal appreciation, to each his own). Choice between two units ? Check the one which will be more immediately useful (namely, XP, morale, location).

If air units, remember to move the pilots. Moving the pilots doesn’t require any PP, and never send rookies to the front (especially with those brand new P-38’s).


RS:
The Kull spreadsheet does a pretty good job of first turn air unit recommendations, if he suggests you Disband an air group, he is good at reminding you to "send the pilots to the pool FIRST!", then disband, which can earn you precious Political Pts.
Unfortunately, WITP:AE is a rather complex game, sometimes a bit complicated too. I generally start a Allied Cmpn and then play a few turns or weeks, then - "lessons" in hand, start over if I am feeling a different strategy path might work better. I keep a separate copy of Kull's spreadsheet with my "improvements/modifications" that is my personal guide. Then I always have the original as reference and backup.

Cheers! Good luck and keep plugging, you will get there eventually.

Yes - when you do embark on a grand campaign, save the first few turns and do not overwrite them. Then when you decide to restart you have most of the setup already in place and just need to make the changes you want from lessons learned.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Moltrey)
Post #: 12
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/22/2020 10:49:08 PM   
Ambassador

 

Posts: 1674
Joined: 1/11/2008
From: Brussels, Belgium
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador
That’s it.

Use Tracker, check your devices, and when you get a certain number, check the pool history to see which units require them, and pick the right ones to turn replacements on (same with upgrades, except you check the units which have the device upgrading to the new one).

« Right » units to fill are those which you’ll keep and use to the end. Static restricted to the West Coast ? Useless, unless your opponent invades Canada. Unit has a withdrawal date ? Check the date, and only fill if you get to use it for a long enough time (this is personal appreciation, to each his own). Choice between two units ? Check the one which will be more immediately useful (namely, XP, morale, location).

If air units, remember to move the pilots. Moving the pilots doesn’t require any PP, and never send rookies to the front (especially with those brand new P-38’s).


RS:
The Kull spreadsheet does a pretty good job of first turn air unit recommendations, if he suggests you Disband an air group, he is good at reminding you to "send the pilots to the pool FIRST!", then disband, which can earn you precious Political Pts.
Unfortunately, WITP:AE is a rather complex game, sometimes a bit complicated too. I generally start a Allied Cmpn and then play a few turns or weeks, then - "lessons" in hand, start over if I am feeling a different strategy path might work better. I keep a separate copy of Kull's spreadsheet with my "improvements/modifications" that is my personal guide. Then I always have the original as reference and backup.

Cheers! Good luck and keep plugging, you will get there eventually.

Yes - when you do embark on a grand campaign, save the first few turns and do not overwrite them. Then when you decide to restart you have most of the setup already in place and just need to make the changes you want from lessons learned.

Yep, sound advice.

I’d also add not to worry too much at start. Odds to finish your first GC are low, I never heard anyone doing it. Start a GC, learn something, two-things, three-things, and restart after a couple of errors are made. If you want to see how fast you can reinforce SoPac, don’t worry about Chinese units, or India, but focus on what you’re trying to learn. If you try to learn from every area of operation at once, you’ll be overwhelmed and might fail to notice important lessons, because it happens on too large a time scale.
In fact, for the first one, don’t make grand plans, just run the turns quickly, to see what the AI would do, how fast they can invade Malaya, then switch side and see how fast YOU can run down III Indian Corps.
Starting a GC is an investment in time, and you’ll be sorry if you make grand plans and happen to have them screwed one month in the game.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 13
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/22/2020 10:53:38 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13209
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: online
A question that I have, which may seem strange since I have played the game for awhile, is if you disband the air unit early for PPs, do you get to keep the airplanes or not? I would rather have the airplanes than the few PPs that I get from disbanding the unit early.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 14
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/23/2020 9:31:40 AM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

A question that I have, which may seem strange since I have played the game for awhile, is if you disband the air unit early for PPs, do you get to keep the airplanes or not? I would rather have the airplanes than the few PPs that I get from disbanding the unit early.



You do lose the planes.

Some B17-E units, restricted to the continental U.S., will bag you 60+ pp when disbanded. If you play PDU off, there is no way to get them out of the unit.

Quite a lot.
I think it is worth it, just to get a little extra PP in the early game.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 15
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/23/2020 3:54:17 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13209
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

A question that I have, which may seem strange since I have played the game for awhile, is if you disband the air unit early for PPs, do you get to keep the airplanes or not? I would rather have the airplanes than the few PPs that I get from disbanding the unit early.



You do lose the planes.

Some B17-E units, restricted to the continental U.S., will bag you 60+ pp when disbanded. If you play PDU off, there is no way to get them out of the unit.

Quite a lot.
I think it is worth it, just to get a little extra PP in the early game.


There IS a way to keep at least some of those aircraft but I won't tell it here. Probably not in a PM either!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 16
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/23/2020 4:35:54 PM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: offline
Really? you can pm me that, right?

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 17
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/23/2020 4:40:45 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13209
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: online
I could but I won't.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 18
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/23/2020 6:07:25 PM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I could but I won't.


good for you

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 19
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/23/2020 8:27:06 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline
odd RJ - I always had the same thought - I would rather have the airframes than the PPs for certain planes (17s and 38s being the obvious, but 40s as well).

And the trick to keeping more is very helpful, though I will keep to myself as well. One thing I will share is if you have the chance to replace/retire enough P-36s to swap out better airframes.....do it. Esp the ones in the PI. I even had a game once where I saved enough P-35s to swap out for better planes.

(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 20
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/23/2020 10:15:46 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13209
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

odd RJ - I always had the same thought - I would rather have the airframes than the PPs for certain planes (17s and 38s being the obvious, but 40s as well).

And the trick to keeping more is very helpful, though I will keep to myself as well. One thing I will share is if you have the chance to replace/retire enough P-36s to swap out better airframes.....do it. Esp the ones in the PI. I even had a game once where I saved enough P-35s to swap out for better planes.


The way that I found out how to do it takes time and a little work. You only get one airplane every now and then. But that is better than nothing and even the old planes will work for trainees.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 21
RE: How does the gear get to the rear? - 12/23/2020 11:10:57 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3242
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

Really? you can pm me that, right?


It requires a level 1 airbase on one of the channel islands, a few aviation support squads, and insufficient supply.

< Message edited by Ian R -- 12/23/2020 11:12:14 PM >


_____________________________

"You may find that having is not so nearly pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
- Cdr Spock


Ian R

(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 22
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> How does the gear get to the rear? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.191