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Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/18/2020 8:02:02 AM   
stockwellpete

 

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I usually start now with what I call "the Ottoman gambit", which is to buy the 2 Mountain Corps as quickly as I can, pretty much before I spend any MPP's on anything else. The reason I do this is that it means I can eventually deadlock the Caucasian front and move the 2 Cavalry Corps south to Iraq and/or confront the Arab Revolt.

Is this a good strategy? What other ideas do players have when playing as the Ottomans?
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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/18/2020 9:29:31 AM   
1775Cerberus

 

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I have always views securing the coasts and holding a Gaza-Dead Sea line to be the top priorities for the Ottomans. Then beginning to long game to 1917 where your economy should be built up enough to have a decently trained Army to stand against anything coming out of Egypt and counter attacking against the Russians. Those mountains and limited supply make for great defensive positions.

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/18/2020 10:04:31 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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I would get trench and infantry tech pronto. The mountian corps are nice and that can come later.

Losing Ezerum and Trapazon isn't a war ender for the Ottomans in case you can't hold it against a determined Russian player, who has Yudenich as commander (The Russians top commander) and possibly all of Russia's mountain corps from the early part of the war.

The cavalry should go though, and use them as you see fit, as they are useless in those mountains and won't survive long if attacked by those mountain troops.

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/18/2020 11:42:47 AM   
stockwellpete

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1775Cerberus

I have always views securing the coasts and holding a Gaza-Dead Sea line to be the top priorities for the Ottomans. Then beginning to long game to 1917 where your economy should be built up enough to have a decently trained Army to stand against anything coming out of Egypt and counter attacking against the Russians. Those mountains and limited supply make for great defensive positions.


OK. Are you talking more about what happens in MP? IN SP it is relatively safe to start moving infantry Corps from west to east right from the start, just leaving one Corps near Gallipoli. And then I feel safe in buying my 2x Mountain Corps. But presumably in MP you start by buying a few more detachments, do you? And do what OldCrowBalthazar does in terms of research. How many more detachments might you buy? 3 or 4 over the first 2-3 turns?

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/18/2020 12:52:00 PM   
Dazo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

I usually start now with what I call "the Ottoman gambit", which is to buy the 2 Mountain Corps as quickly as I can, pretty much before I spend any MPP's on anything else. The reason I do this is that it means I can eventually deadlock the Caucasian front and move the 2 Cavalry Corps south to Iraq and/or confront the Arab Revolt.

Is this a good strategy? What other ideas do players have when playing as the Ottomans?


Depends on the situation but usually it's at least 1 chit in trenches and 1 in infantry. They'll keep going whatever you do after that so it's sound investment. After that, detachments because they're cheap and arrive quickly. The more you have the more weak points you can protect (and you can free up corps).

Also, summer monthes are longer (more turns) so it's better to launch research in August right at the start while delaying detachments 2-3 turns won't make a big change in their arrival date. That's also why it's usually better to buy new units in autumn/winter since they'll arrive "faster".

Special tip: even if you still can't use the railroad to OE going through Serbia you can send AH or german air units to occupy some hexes. Won't do much against a proper attack but it can help with partisans hexes and it's better than leaving a port empty ! Can at least give you a chance to repel an amphibious move by a lone detachment.

< Message edited by Dazo -- 12/18/2020 1:01:43 PM >

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/19/2020 9:24:07 AM   
stockwellpete

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dazo

Depends on the situation but usually it's at least 1 chit in trenches and 1 in infantry. They'll keep going whatever you do after that so it's sound investment. After that, detachments because they're cheap and arrive quickly. The more you have the more weak points you can protect (and you can free up corps).

Also, summer monthes are longer (more turns) so it's better to launch research in August right at the start while delaying detachments 2-3 turns won't make a big change in their arrival date. That's also why it's usually better to buy new units in autumn/winter since they'll arrive "faster".

Special tip: even if you still can't use the railroad to OE going through Serbia you can send AH or german air units to occupy some hexes. Won't do much against a proper attack but it can help with partisans hexes and it's better than leaving a port empty ! Can at least give you a chance to repel an amphibious move by a lone detachment.


Thanks. So you are the second player to emphasise detachments early on for the Ottomans. The infantry Tech you are talking about - is it the Weapons Tech, or is it the Warfare Tech for morale?

< Message edited by stockwellpete -- 12/19/2020 9:25:20 AM >

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/19/2020 10:16:42 AM   
ThisEndUp

 

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Force march the detachments you have at the beginning to Iraq and attempt to surround the lone British detachment at Basra when war breaks out. Move all your cavalry there as well. Push them out of there as quickly as possible. Letting them retain a toehold would just result in future headaches, since they can get an artillery there by event.

The caucuses are impossible to hold without artillery support, which will likely take too long to show up anyway. Losing eastern Anatolia is pretty much inevitable, but not lethal. Sinai should be relatively easy to seize in 1914. Entrench one hex away from the canal proper, and use it as a choke point.

I agree with the direction that the others have mentioned: invest in entrenchment and build detachments to protect your ports, for 1914-1915. Once those are done, you should go full steam ahead for artillery pieces, along with the relevant techs.


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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/19/2020 3:24:18 PM   
Dazo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete
Thanks. So you are the second player to emphasise detachments early on for the Ottomans. The infantry Tech you are talking about - is it the Weapons Tech, or is it the Warfare Tech for morale?


You're welcome, infantry tech is the weapons one at 125 MPPs per chit (top left corner of research screen).

I'd add you can decide your investments depending on how much MPPs you'll have next turn since OE has growing MPPs with increasing mobilization. So you can invest first in what costs the less and wait to be at 70-80% mobilization for infantry tech since the one time cost is more than trench or detachments.

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/24/2020 9:53:42 AM   
stockwellpete

 

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How do people deal with the Arab Revolt?

From what I can make of it the rebels seem to spawn from the same hexes. If this is the case, can you actually stop further spawning by putting detachments on those hexes, or will the rebels then spawn from other hexes?

At the moment I tend to send the 2 cavalry units that start in the Caucasus down towards Jerusalem - and once I have the Infantry Weapons Tech 1 I send them off to deal with the Revolt. With the Infantry Corps entrenched at Medina throughout, it is relatively easy to defeat the Arab units, but afterwards you obviously need some sort of occupying force.

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/24/2020 6:31:16 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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Putting units on or adjacent to the Partisan spawning hexes will stop them spawning, but of course it means that you have forces tied up in that duty rather than being available for use elsewhere.

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/25/2020 7:34:44 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

How do people deal with the Arab Revolt?

From what I can make of it the rebels seem to spawn from the same hexes. If this is the case, can you actually stop further spawning by putting detachments on those hexes, or will the rebels then spawn from other hexes?

At the moment I tend to send the 2 cavalry units that start in the Caucasus down towards Jerusalem - and once I have the Infantry Weapons Tech 1 I send them off to deal with the Revolt. With the Infantry Corps entrenched at Medina throughout, it is relatively easy to defeat the Arab units, but afterwards you obviously need some sort of occupying force.


3 detachments are what need to be placed to cover the partisan hexes to thwart their spawning in the early stages of the Arab Revolt, although I usually keep a fourth on Medina in case of any Entente shenanigans at Yanbo. This should be done by early 1915.

The other partisan hexes up by Damascus and Derra can be covered later but probably best by 1916.

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/26/2020 6:06:27 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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Locations to place Ottoman (or other CP detachments) in the Hejaz to ward off partisans.

Like I posted previously, I'm a little paranoid of leaving Medina unoccupied, so either I throw a fourth detachment down there when I can, or if things are really tight..leave Ha'il unoccupied for a time. The danger of leaving Ha'il unoccupied of course, is that the partisan that rises there can make a bee line straight across the desert to Tayma..and they are not hampered by supply considerations.




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< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 12/26/2020 6:28:16 AM >

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/26/2020 11:37:34 PM   
Chernobyl

 

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I noticed that eventually the Entente gets an event The Arab Revolt I believe it's called.

Does keeping units adjacent to those P hexes prevent this event indefinitely, or does the event fire eventually at a historical time no matter what?

Also, I've never seen an arab partisan spawn in 1914/early 1915. Is there a certain time when they begin to spawn or have a higher chance to spawn? I also never seem to see any arab partisans spawn in the Levant, only down south in Arabia. Is there some time constraint or difference in chance or are all partisan hexes equally likely at all times?

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/26/2020 11:42:39 PM   
Chernobyl

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor
I throw a fourth detachment down there


Yes I am not sure if you are truly safe if you have a unit outside Media blocking all the P hexes. Could one spawn via event somehow? Could a landing from the sea race into Medina in one turn? Because I'm not absolutely certain, I leave 4 units there. Ottoman and Bulgarian detachments, and Ottoman or Austrian cavalry are my favs.

Also I will note those P hexes are not always the same. They vary somewhat. Not sure if it's a turn by turn change or just different at the start of every game.

< Message edited by Chernobyl -- 12/26/2020 11:43:32 PM >

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/27/2020 1:20:13 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

I noticed that eventually the Entente gets an event The Arab Revolt I believe it's called.

Does keeping units adjacent to those P hexes prevent this event indefinitely, or does the event fire eventually at a historical time no matter what?

Also, I've never seen an arab partisan spawn in 1914/early 1915. Is there a certain time when they begin to spawn or have a higher chance to spawn? I also never seem to see any arab partisans spawn in the Levant, only down south in Arabia. Is there some time constraint or difference in chance or are all partisan hexes equally likely at all times?


I believe keeping units next to these P hexes does indeed prevent a partisan to spawn indefinitely, as is the case in WiE and WaW. I have never seen them move from game to game. They are fixed, though it would be fun if they did move..

You are right, they won't spawn until the Entente player gets a decision to 'Bankroll' the Arab Revolt, which comes up midish to late 1915. So the Ottomans have some time to get the partisan areas in the Hejaz area of Arabia covered. The two partisan hexes up in Syria can cause trouble sometime in 1916-17 I believe.

I also try to get 4 detachments down in and around Medina, even though 3 is sufficient. Also, another cheap alternative to block those partisans from spawning is to buy AA units. Those detachments are actually quite valuable to the Ottomans, and are better suited near active fronts or ports and towns covering the Levant and Anatolian coasts.

A lot a CP opponents don't consider Yanbu as a source of any kind of a possible problem, for it is expensive for the Entente to AV a marine down there from Suez for example. However, I have done that as an Entente player occasionally, if I can afford such an extravagance, to stick another thorn in the Ottomans hide. Historically, the British and French did seize Yanbo to help further the Arab Revolt, so I've given it a try, and it does make the Sultan squirm

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 12/27/2020 4:20:09 AM >

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/27/2020 4:58:59 AM   
Chernobyl

 

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I do see the P icons in different hexes depending on the game. They are always in the same general area but there is some variation.

However, this might be due to a graphical glitch. I notice when I scroll away from the bottom of the map, sometimes my units appear to be placed in the middle of the desert or the sea, until I click or re-scroll to check out the area again.

Anyhow, now that we have established that partisans will not spawn if you have units adjacent to every P hex, the question is would any of us be bold enough to leave Medina open to save a unit from guard duty? Sometimes you can cover three partisan hexes with a single detachment one hex northwest of Medina. Would anyone actually do this, leaving Medina itself open?

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/27/2020 5:12:09 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

I do see the P icons in different hexes depending on the game. They are always in the same general area but there is some variation.

However, this might be due to a graphical glitch. I notice when I scroll away from the bottom of the map, sometimes my units appear to be placed in the middle of the desert or the sea, until I click or re-scroll to check out the area again.

Anyhow, now that we have established that partisans will not spawn if you have units adjacent to every P hex, the question is would any of us be bold enough to leave Medina open to save a unit from guard duty? Sometimes you can cover three partisan hexes with a single detachment one hex northwest of Medina. Would anyone actually do this, leaving Medina itself open?


Thats a Graphical Glitch! Beware of that when zooming in and out. Its a major issue with the SE corner of the map. Its the same with the Ludendorff and Rush for Paris games also. The Devs are aware of it...but until they fix it...it could be disaster for anyone moving down there. You got to fiddle with it with your mouse to square it back up. I didn't realize this till in my first PM game back in Feb 2020 I had moved a detachment down there...but it wasn't in the right spot in Medina..it was a few hexes above it.

I have been leaving something extra in Medina regardless of the Map Glitch. I am not sure if an event is triggered after the Arab Revolt starts but the CP player has the P hexes covered but not have a unit in Medina at the same time...

Edit: Maybe we should bring up the Map Glitch in a new thread...there was a post about this issue somewhere before.

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 12/27/2020 5:14:05 AM >

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/27/2020 3:26:20 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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Hey guys, regarding the graphical glitch, is this with the latest version? I just ask as I had thought this had been fixed on my end and want to make sure.

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/27/2020 5:19:50 PM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

Hey guys, regarding the graphical glitch, is this with the latest version? I just ask as I had thought this had been fixed on my end and want to make sure.


Hi Hubert,

Yes it is with v. 1.03.00

It looks like its still happening apparently with players making them think the fixed partisan 'P' hexes are shifting when scrolling out then back in with the map.

(It is in my game with Tanaka at least, where we've been busy trying to find 'other' things to break)

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 12/27/2020 5:35:57 PM >

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/27/2020 9:33:27 PM   
Bavre

 

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Same here, also with 1.03.00.

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 12/31/2020 1:27:01 AM   
Hubert Cater

 

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Thanks and I will take a look again.

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 1/6/2021 5:18:35 AM   
Chernobyl

 

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There was some discussion on the other Ottoman thread about how the Ottomans could use another HQ

I thought the most appropriate would be Enver Pasha commanding in the Caucasus. Historically he attempted to attack Kars against the advice of Hasan İzzet and lost 90% of his men to Russian bullets and the cold. Then he blamed the Armenians.

Placing Enver where he belongs frees up von Sanders (historically he helped defend Gallipoli along with Ataturk) and lets face it I think most of us send von Sanders to the Caucasus because the Ottomans need a HQ there badly and that isn't historical at all.

Here's what it looks like when Ottomans mobilize in my scenario:




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Chernobyl -- 1/6/2021 5:26:32 AM >

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 1/6/2021 6:35:53 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

There was some discussion on the other Ottoman thread about how the Ottomans could use another HQ

I thought the most appropriate would be Enver Pasha commanding in the Caucasus. Historically he attempted to attack Kars against the advice of Hasan İzzet and lost 90% of his men to Russian bullets and the cold. Then he blamed the Armenians.

Placing Enver where he belongs frees up von Sanders (historically he helped defend Gallipoli along with Ataturk) and lets face it I think most of us send von Sanders to the Caucasus because the Ottomans need a HQ there badly and that isn't historical at all.

Here's what it looks like when Ottomans mobilize in my scenario:



Looks good. Yeah I used to send von Sanders to the Caucasus via transport to Trabazon, and use him instead as the over all commander in the Caucasus, reinforce the HQ in Mus to 10 then the 2 cavalry to 10 next turn, then send the latter off down Mesopotamia way.

A few times I kept Sanders in Turkish Thrace on a RR, saving the transport and operational MMP for awhile during the early stages, and see how strong or not the Germans did on the Western Front. If I don't start seeing as many British units as I think should be in France, or get a hint of something else..I get him down to the Levant and start walking him to Baghdad asap.

In one match, I kept him in or near Istanbul with 3 Ottoman corps after I botched an attack in Serbia in 1914..I was worried that the Entente or at least Greeks would tip the balance in the area even when I got Bulgaria in the war. Well I got Bulgaria in but still didn't have enough hummph at Uskub and Nish, but that Ottoman group with Sanders did the trick. Oddly, Nish fell last, and the only thing left nearby that could enter the last Serb capital was an Ottoman detachment. Serbia surrendered..and for the rest of the war it showed Ottoman 'brown' on the map. Also Turkey got the plunder MMP's which was a nice unplanned score for them.

Its a hard cruel world for the Ottomans, and when things break and get real dynamic in the war, more times than not its on the periphery of this sprawling empire.

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 1/6/2021 6:51:13 AM >

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 1/6/2021 9:10:25 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor
Hi Hubert,

Yes it is with v. 1.03.00

It looks like its still happening apparently with players making them think the fixed partisan 'P' hexes are shifting when scrolling out then back in with the map.

(It is in my game with Tanaka at least, where we've been busy trying to find 'other' things to break)


Just circling back to this, do you have by any chance specific steps that would help me repeat this?

I'm having trouble recreating the issue.

Thanks,
Hubert


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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 1/6/2021 9:59:09 PM   
Chernobyl

 

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I'm having difficulty recreating it even though I've seen it multiple times including recently.

I'm not sure if it involves zooming in and out or not, but often when I look at the units at the bottom of the map (around medina) they appear temporarily out of place until I scroll up and then down again, or zoom in and out again. Generally it appears as though all the units I have down there have scrolled up a few hexes and they're in the desert to the north of where they actually are.

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 1/7/2021 2:01:18 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

I'm having difficulty recreating it even though I've seen it multiple times including recently.

I'm not sure if it involves zooming in and out or not, but often when I look at the units at the bottom of the map (around medina) they appear temporarily out of place until I scroll up and then down again, or zoom in and out again. Generally it appears as though all the units I have down there have scrolled up a few hexes and they're in the desert to the north of where they actually are.


Yeah, it only happens in the SE corner.. showing the Red Sea and Arabia, it can shift all the units 2 hexes up, for example...the Turkish corp in Medina will look like its 2 hexes above the down..then if you scroll up and back down it will correct it. I will screen shoot it next time it happens, but I'm also having difficulty 'making it' happen.

btw, I think it only happens if there are units placed in that corner. I can't make it do it on an opening game turn 1 test because no units are down there. I have 3 PMs going that got units down there so I will screen shoot it in one of those when it happens. I just had it happen in WiE last night where some ships in the Red Sea were going to use the transit box to the Atlantic but they didn't disappear at the end of the turn. When I received my turn the next day, they were 2 hexes above the box.

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 1/7/2021 2:23:12 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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Screen shot of SE corner of March to Paris game. Same behavior as in Call to Arms latest version. The screen as you can see is split horizontally. All the units BELOW the split are shifted up 2 hexes, and the same town is shown. When this happens in Arabia/Red Sea, its harder to notice because there's less features or units to notice it.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 1/7/2021 2:28:30 AM >

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 1/7/2021 2:45:34 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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Closer look of behavior on SE corner of game map when zoomed in and then scrolling up or down.

The units with the yellow arrows will shift up 2 hexes. If a unit is moved down and placed while this behavior is happening, but isn't noticed, those units will be placed on the hexes to the north. e.g. as example, I moved a corp out of Medina operationally and moved a detachment on to the city to replace it...or thought I did. When I received my next turn, scrolling down to take a peak I noticed it was 2 hexes in the desert. (not a good thing if the Arab Revolt is going because theres a partisan node there) :((




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< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 1/7/2021 6:52:36 AM >

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 1/7/2021 4:01:58 AM   
Chernobyl

 

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Back to Ottomans, what usually happens for you guys in Egypt? Because for me, I usually just sit in the trenches and defend and my opponent sits behind the Suez and defends. I don't feel like the supply values or geometry is very good for attack against Egypt. I think if all fronts were stalemated with DMZ hex stripes I might try pushing into Egypt if I had a spare artillery somehow, but it's never happened so far.

I even have one opponent who bombards Gaza and lowers my supply. He's not attacking me on land so far. I believe he's just trying to ruin my supply in case I wanted to attack (I have no plans to). In any case, his battleships have reduced Gaza to strength 0 out of 6, and my HQ which was sitting there wasn't providing much supply and had to fall back. This would be very effective at stopping any attack into Egypt because your front line units will have very low supply values (less than 5) if you try to attack Egypt.

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RE: Playing the Ottomans . . . - 1/7/2021 5:09:07 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

Back to Ottomans, what usually happens for you guys in Egypt? Because for me, I usually just sit in the trenches and defend and my opponent sits behind the Suez and defends. I don't feel like the supply values or geometry is very good for attack against Egypt. I think if all fronts were stalemated with DMZ hex stripes I might try pushing into Egypt if I had a spare artillery somehow, but it's never happened so far.

I even have one opponent who bombards Gaza and lowers my supply. He's not attacking me on land so far. I believe he's just trying to ruin my supply in case I wanted to attack (I have no plans to). In any case, his battleships have reduced Gaza to strength 0 out of 6, and my HQ which was sitting there wasn't providing much supply and had to fall back. This would be very effective at stopping any attack into Egypt because your front line units will have very low supply values (less than 5) if you try to attack Egypt.


Well, that opponent understands the supply mechanism, which is optimal if you want a good match :)

Its hard to get an offensive going out of Egypt until the Entente can take Al'Arish. The supply is also bad so to be really successful the British need two HQ's down there, which I'm sure you know, come at a premium.

Early game, I personally am happy just to make sure the Suez Canal is secure. An artillery unit becomes available later on...and usually I don't start pushing down there until 1916.

A lot depends on whats happening on the Western Front too, especially in 1914-15. In one match, my opponent hit me so hard there that when the decision came to whether to send the first wave of Anzacs to Egypt(early) or Britain(later) I picked Britain because the situation was so dire. Well. I was able to stabilize the situation around Amiems with that, but then I was short manned in Sinai and had my hands full of Turks.

(in reply to Chernobyl)
Post #: 30
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