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Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/18/2020 7:57:24 AM   
stockwellpete

 

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First question - do players generally try and defend the Galician oilfields at the start of the game? Or do you just abandon them? It seems to me at the moment that they cannot be held, and to try and do so means you may lose 2-3 Corps in the attempt. What generally happens in MP?
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RE: Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/18/2020 9:25:49 AM   
1775Cerberus

 

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In my experience in MP, abandon them and focus on trying to not be driven completely into the mountains by winter. That means early focus on Entrenchment and infantry warfare.

(in reply to stockwellpete)
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RE: Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/18/2020 9:31:39 AM   
Chernobyl

 

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You are right. The oilfields are gone. You can't even hold them for one extra turn.

The following is a summary of my experiences against humans:

I always pick send the army to Serbia first. So I'm not sure what it's like when you choose to mobilize 3 armies against Russia.

Generally I try to hold Lemberg for as long as possible but Russia will take it by force eventually. The question is when. Sometimes I am able to hold it until Russia gets upgraded artillery (mid 1915) and sometimes I lose it earlier. A determined Russian player can put extremely intense pressure on the Lemberg area. As long as you keep a full strength unit there (I found out in my most recent game that strength 8 will not do even if not many Russian corps are directly adjacent yet) the Russian player doesn't seem to have a guaranteed kill+occupy on Lemberg.

Around the 3rd or 4th turn I sometimes rail in a HQ and a couple corps from the western front to man the most vulnerable hexes with German units which are stronger. A German corps in Lemberg is also quite strong. This alleviates the pressure somewhat but even so the situation is quite tense.

Around this time you have to also hold the Tarnow area. You don't want to let the Russian player push hard into this region. If they get into the mountains you are probably screwed because you don't have enough corps to block all their potential advances. The rail link from the west is of vital importance. If it gets severed then all your corps in Russia will have low supply and you'll lose the game.

In the southeast, the situation tends to be more stable due to several strong mountain hexes which offer extra defensive power and higher entrenchment. I've found I can even hold some of these mountain hexes with detachments and cavalry. If the enemy attempts to push through the very bottom hex be aware that their supply levels will be extremely low. You can rail in a unit to defend your mine there if you do it at least one turn in advance. You should probably initially have one of your HQ in the mountain rail hex behind Stanislaw to provided decent supply for your mountain defenders. Later on (after Lemberg falls and the enemy advances to the area east of Premysyl) you may have to retreat this HQ to a farther square to prevent it from being attacked.

Be aware of a Russian cavalry dash west of Tarnow, on either side of Krakow. It can sometimes suicide to capture one of your valuable 30 MPP mines. Maybe send your aircraft here to spot for those pesky cavalry and use zone of control to prevent any single-turn incursions which would be unacceptable. Their cavalry are weak and if they poke too far with a cavalry sometimes you can punish them in this area with a combined German-Austrian sortie but be aware that the Russian player has a massive amount of units in Poland and can easily overwhelm any unit you have, especially if yours is understrength after an attack.

With perfect defense and a bit of luck it may be possible to hold Lemberg into 1915 even against the best attacks. But you WILL lose that city eventually and it isn't worth losing your army to try to hold the city. When things look dire you want to retreat in a relatively orderly fashion. Prepared back row lines of trenches can help you safely retreat units which already attacked this turn. Premysyl fort can help harbor a weak unit for a turn. Definitely prioritize keeping units in full strength, and buy back any lost corps promptly because if you lose more than 2 the situation can snowball to a point where there are too many openings at once and all your units are vulnerable.

Overall defending Galacia is quite tough. You should be able to hold Premysyl fort pretty easily until Russian artillery shows up, but the other aspects are difficult. Your main goal actually isn't even to delay the capture Lemberg (it's nice to do that but you won't lose the war just because Russia took it early) so much as simply to get out of there and retreat to the mountains alive. In the long run you're going to be saved by German units which get railed in to Poland/East Prussia or even the Lemberg/Premysyl area with their own HQ as I like to do.

Now Austria has a whole other front called Serbia. I won't write a whole book about attacking Serbia but if you like you can check out one version of my opening move against Serbia in my "how the heck to defend Serbia" thread.

(in reply to stockwellpete)
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RE: Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/18/2020 9:33:33 AM   
Chernobyl

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1775Cerberus
In my experience in MP, abandon them and focus on trying to not be driven completely into the mountains by winter. That means early focus on Entrenchment and infantry warfare.


Oh yes I forgot to mention you have to invest 4 chits into Trench Warfare ASAP. Getting that first extra trench level helps so darn much. If you get extremely lucky with tech breakthroughs it may even be technically possible to defend Lemberg into 1915!

(in reply to 1775Cerberus)
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RE: Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/18/2020 9:42:32 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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The Oilfields are too exposed, though if possible, try to hold Lemburg for awhile...it won't hold forever but as long as its covered on it flanks and you don't move the corp on it, it will entrench to 3. The only way to hold Lemburg into the winter generally is if there German intervention let's say to cover your left around Tarnow-Crakow.

What ever you do don't let the Russians make a dash against Przemsyl, because they will if its weakly held by a detachment or even a cavalry unit. You don't want to lose Przemsyl or Crakow because not only is the NN loss bad, they're loss(es) trigger Romanian mobilization.

Edit: Just read Chernobyls post after writing this...he detailed Austria-Hungary's defensive strategy in a nut shell.

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 12/18/2020 9:49:59 AM >

(in reply to 1775Cerberus)
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RE: Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/18/2020 11:57:43 AM   
stockwellpete

 

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Thanks Chernobyl for taking the time to write that.

(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)
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RE: Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/18/2020 1:45:05 PM   
Dazo


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Same as above, oilfields are undefendable but it's possible to make Lemberg a hard nut to crack for Russians if you're ready to pay the price meaning ignore Serbia for a while.
The 12 supply value of the city is a real boost to any AH corps around and if you upgrade the lvl3 HQ arriving soon to lvl 5 it's even better.

Entrench around the city to gain time for AH reinforcements to arrive in 2-3 turns. Protect the flanks with ZoCs, terrain, space and spread out units. On the right, you can lose the town SE of Kolomea but it's better if you can keep it to anchor your line and use the river as defense. Try to keep Kolomea beacuse it's a bother for Russians. You can advance past the river and entrench there if Russians don't press too much and even try to extend the line SE (south of Proskurov) using the river to protect your move. It will force Russians to divert units from Lemberg or risk raids (cavalry if you can) in their rear.

On the left, try to hold a front a bit north of Przemzysl and on the San towards Krakow. It will help keep an eye on russian movements in southern Poland and cover the left flank of Lemberg. Plus once entrenched there, the clear terrain gap NW of Lemberg can quiclky become a russian cemetery with counterattacks without advance.

You'll soon be able to field 3 armies or 15 infantry corps plus some cavalry vs Russians, enough for a continuous front from the Romanian border to Krakow. That should stop Russians for a while if you counterattack by rotating units in key spots. Always keep a combat unit in Lemberg just in case.

Things you can do to get more AH units in Galicia faster:
- operate 2 of AH starting infantry corps from Serbia/Montenegro, you can defend with 1 HQ, 3 corps and 2 detachments/marines if you took Belgrade quickly.
- send the 2 AH army (1 HQ, 2 infantry corps) to Serbia, then operate them immediately to Galicia. It costs MPPs but you'll gain one turn and be able to deploy them where you need them the most.

Special tip: you can sacrifice one cavalry corps at start by sending it in russian territory to capture Proskurov (and entrench there).
That town is right on the border with AH and having Russians deploy there with a railhead is a VERY bad thing. If you take it, Russians will deploy further east meaning you'll gain at least one turn to build a proper defensive line. You'll usually lose your cavalry corps the next turn but it will slow down the onslaught, cripple a bit supply in the area and prevent Russians from operating more units there straight away.

< Message edited by Dazo -- 12/24/2020 10:47:41 AM >

(in reply to stockwellpete)
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RE: Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/18/2020 6:55:14 PM   
Tanaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

First question - do players generally try and defend the Galician oilfields at the start of the game? Or do you just abandon them? It seems to me at the moment that they cannot be held, and to try and do so means you may lose 2-3 Corps in the attempt. What generally happens in MP?


Depends on vs human or AI. Against human forget about it. You will lose too many units.

_____________________________


(in reply to stockwellpete)
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RE: Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/24/2020 10:02:51 AM   
stockwellpete

 

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I tend to abandon Czernowitz at the start as well in order to pull the Russian line to the east a bit more. When I do this I do not seem to get much pressure on Cracow at the other end of the line, apart from occasional cavalry raids that are easy to cover. Do other people do this?

(in reply to Tanaka)
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RE: Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/27/2020 6:13:12 PM   
hottegetthoff

 

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I try to take belgrade on the first turn, if that fails, i usually send the additional units via event to galicia, and go on the defensive in serbia, as even with entente suppport its not easy to break through. Sometimes german support arrives to help push through montenegro or any Valjevo to belgrade or the Uzice route.

In Galicia, with additional units i defend in lemberg, and try to endanger Radom and Ivangorod if possible. Well placed counterattacks are needed, and german distractions in Prussia or Western poland. Without the additional units, i go to Przemyśl in a fighting retreat to allow my units to mobilize safely on the border. Attacks towards ivangorod can be considered later, and if poland falls a rush to kiev is always fun.

Navy has to contest the port of Serbian allies with subs and mines, maritime bombers should be placed from both germany and austria to support it. Also, german subs should always be built here if given an option, you will have an overabundance of them either way. Other tasks are naval bombarding the italian front, it greatly influences the war, and naval invaions. Your best targets are: Corfu, to give you better support against being blocked in the Adriatic, Bari-Taranto Region to divert italian resources, and open a new front when youre ready, Ancona if the situation is good enough for push to Rome, and sometimes landing in albania/greece is possible.

Italian fleet must be relentlessly pushed out of adriatic, mines are sometimes useless in small waters because of air recon, Naval weaponry is always a good upgrade and can suprise enemies. Naval warfare is useful for morale, but mine limit shouldnt help much against human opponent in this theatre like i said.

Entente can also flood Adriatic with submarines, and you have 1 DD in 1914 with 1 in production (not enough, even with air support), which is why ASW is very useful for A-H, in contrast to the germans. Also a Seaplane tender is not the most expensive unit, and can help against subs or harbours aswell.

Diplomacy for all CP should at first concentrate on getting bulgaria to join, its benefits are huge, and you can help the Ottomans to prevent a domino effect of Ottoss falling then A-H with the convoy support. Romania can be dangerous, but if you have bulgaria in the war, usually wont be a problem.

Techs to prioritize are trench warfare, infantry weapons, inf warfare, fighter development as usual, but depending on the course of war you have to prioritize between those: ASW, Naval weapons, Submarines(forgot the exact name), long range aircraft, Industrial development, ampphibious warfare(its actually not necessary but helps), logistics(to uphold the beachheads in harbours) and thats about what i used.

(in reply to stockwellpete)
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RE: Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/30/2020 7:01:14 AM   
stockwellpete

 

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How do players generally defend the front against the Italians? With just Austro-Hungarian units, or do you deploy German units there as well in 1915? How successful are you at defending Trento?

(in reply to hottegetthoff)
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RE: Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/30/2020 7:51:29 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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I get a German corp early into Trento..usually Dec 1914 0r Jan 1915 to entrench. Combined with trench tech bonus by the spring, it will be hard for the Italians to dislodge it. Italy's entry in the war varies..I've seen it as early as April 15 to as late as June 1915.

The rest of the line a mix of AH and/or German detachments and a few corps..Corps especially mixed with detachments on the Capporetto River and the towns like Klagenfurt etc right behind the line.

It takes some time to kitbash this front together..but the worst thing for the CP player to do is wait till the last minute to put a fence up on those alpine meadows. The longer your units are there, the more entrenched they will be.

Also, don't forget..detachments do not exert a zone of control..they are excellent blockers, but gaps between them can be exploited. Hence, some corps for backbone is desirable, even though it maybe hard to scratch them up early in the war.

The Mountain Troops are nice..but they are expensive since your buying them fresh...I usually try start buying them a little at a time late 1915 or even well into 1916..but there's usually a pile of 'dead' corps that are much cheaper to purchase..but if I can afford the extravagance..I'll buy one. They are useful.

Remember, they don't get their 'MT' bonus if placed on Trento, but right next door on the mountain hex when dug in its hard to knock them off.

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 12/30/2020 7:52:35 AM >

(in reply to stockwellpete)
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RE: Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/30/2020 11:51:33 AM   
stockwellpete

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

I get a German corp early into Trento..usually Dec 1914 0r Jan 1915 to entrench. Combined with trench tech bonus by the spring, it will be hard for the Italians to dislodge it. Italy's entry in the war varies..I've seen it as early as April 15 to as late as June 1915.

The rest of the line a mix of AH and/or German detachments and a few corps..Corps especially mixed with detachments on the Capporetto River and the towns like Klagenfurt etc right behind the line.

It takes some time to kitbash this front together..but the worst thing for the CP player to do is wait till the last minute to put a fence up on those alpine meadows. The longer your units are there, the more entrenched they will be.

Also, don't forget..detachments do not exert a zone of control..they are excellent blockers, but gaps between them can be exploited. Hence, some corps for backbone is desirable, even though it maybe hard to scratch them up early in the war.


OK. I thought so. I have tried to defend that front with just Austro-Hungarian units and it has ended in disaster. It seemed to me that German units had to go there before Italy joined the war. In real life though, they didn't go there until 1917, which makes me think that the 3x Detachments they get when rebuffing the Italian claims is totally insufficient. The Austro-Hungarians did fight very well on this front.

quote:

The Mountain Troops are nice..but they are expensive since your buying them fresh...I usually try start buying them a little at a time late 1915 or even well into 1916..but there's usually a pile of 'dead' corps that are much cheaper to purchase..but if I can afford the extravagance..I'll buy one. They are useful.


Austro-Hungary can buy 3 Mountain Corps units, I believe, but it is hard to buy them before 1916 because a very high % of their MPP's are spent on reinforcing, or remobilising, heavily damaged units.

quote:

Remember, they don't get their 'MT' bonus if placed on Trento, but right next door on the mountain hex when dug in its hard to knock them off.


I hadn't noticed that as all the surrounding hexes are Mountains. I think there is a case for making the Trento hex mountainous too, even though the town itself (it could be a fortified town) is situated in a river valley. The Italians mainly attacked at the Isonzo, which suggests the approaches to Trento were very difficult.

https://www.visittrentino.info/en/guide/must-see/great-war

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205312343


< Message edited by stockwellpete -- 12/30/2020 12:22:37 PM >

(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)
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RE: Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/30/2020 1:17:06 PM   
hottegetthoff

 

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In trento i use usually german units, it still can fall, but if bruneck and hex near it have back up corps it can be usually retaken. Italian AI has hard time postioning units on the eastern part of the line due to clutter, and maybe it could be improved.

(in reply to stockwellpete)
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RE: Playing the Austro-Hungarians . . . - 12/30/2020 5:30:51 PM   
Chernobyl

 

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Yeah I put a German corps in Trent, partly because you just can't get Austrian HQ command over an Austrian unit there and partly because I slightly prefer a German corps for defense.

It sits there in perfect safety until a British or French artillery gets railed over. Not really much you can do to improve the defense beyond that, you can rail over a HQ eventually but even so there's only so many artillery shells and attacks one unit can handle.

(in reply to stockwellpete)
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