Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Too much detail? Does it matter? Who cares?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> The Operational Art of War IV >> Too much detail? Does it matter? Who cares? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Too much detail? Does it matter? Who cares? - 12/16/2020 8:31:52 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 5780
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline
So I went off adventuring again, and using both online resources and Steel Panthers I started to create another WW2 type of database.

But is this too much info, not enough, who cares, why you asking me this Don?



Thoughts?

_____________________________


Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator
Post #: 1
RE: Too much detail? Does it matter? Who cares? - 12/17/2020 2:26:16 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 4906
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
There are lots more equipment slot than there used to be. Might as well use them if you have the desire.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Wearing blinders and earplugs everything you do is correct.

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 2
RE: Too much detail? Does it matter? Who cares? - 12/17/2020 12:11:35 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4639
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
There are lots more equipment slot than there used to be. Might as well use them if you have the desire.

Dunno about that; sure no problem including them in the database, but using this kind of fine-grained equipment in a scenario, at least a longer scenario, could be problematic for the reasons described in the thread about equipment transitions.

For instance, at the operational scale, is there any real difference between a Pzkw IV E and a Pzkw IV F1? By including both in a scenario you introduce problems with replacements: if your scenario is short enough, or there are few enough units using this equipment, no big deal. Otherwise, your unit with an E won't get an F1 as a replacement unless it is also included in the unit, which will allow you to have twice as many tanks, etc.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 3
RE: Too much detail? Does it matter? Who cares? - 12/17/2020 4:53:58 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 4906
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
The game doesn't do equipment transitions well. That's why people pull out entire units if major pieces of equipment are involved.

The F1 had more better armor, weighed more but had the same engine as the E and had a wider track. The E did have some extra armor applied that somewhat equaled the F1 in the hull/super structure, not in the turret. But it was either welded or bolted on, neither a good solution but a stop gap measure until the F1 could roll out of the factories. So yeah, enough of a difference to include both models.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Wearing blinders and earplugs everything you do is correct.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 4
RE: Too much detail? Does it matter? Who cares? - 12/17/2020 5:13:27 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4639
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
The F1 had more better armor, weighed more but had the same engine as the E and had a wider track. The E did have some extra armor applied that somewhat equaled the F1 in the hull/super structure, not in the turret. But it was either welded or bolted on, neither a good solution but a stop gap measure until the F1 could roll out of the factories. So yeah, enough of a difference to include both models.

Sure, the models were different, but you often have problems when you try to reflect those differences in the equipment database. The problem is that in the database you have to (AFAIK) use integer rather than decimal values, so you can't reflect incremental improvements.

In the database that I'm using, yes, there are different entries for the E and the F1 (with slightly different armor ratings, etc), but for many other types of vehicles the small differences in performance between various models simply cannot be modeled in the equipment database. That's fine--this is an operational game after all--but it is a reason not to go too crazy with including various vehicle variants.

And this is not just an issue of equipment transitions--it is relevant for replacements as well, even if you don't have any equipment transitions. Let's say you have 20 units equipped with short-barreled Pzkw IVs--half the Es and half the F1s. That of course means that if you have Es on hand, the units with the Fs won't get them, and vice versa, when IRL I expect that units would get either.


< Message edited by 76mm -- 12/17/2020 5:17:01 PM >

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 5
RE: Too much detail? Does it matter? Who cares? - 12/17/2020 6:19:02 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 4906
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
While it is true that this is an operational game there are tactical elements that apply mainly to armored vehicles. 19.2. Notes On Combat Resolution

As for replacements, that part of the game is afu. It needs some work.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Wearing blinders and earplugs everything you do is correct.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 6
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> The Operational Art of War IV >> Too much detail? Does it matter? Who cares? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.336