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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now

 
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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/20/2020 7:14:16 PM   
ComadrejaKorp

 

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I did not think about that, I did not know that Holland delivered more merchants now, your plan sounds good, my numbers:

Not attacking Holland Axis saves:
- 1 DD = 300pp
-30mm = 300pp
-3 Escort = 120pp
-Not attack not casualties = + - 80pp
Total 800pp (also there will be no losses of SS killing merchant marine, and Allies will suffer losses if they want beachhead in Amsterdam, that area will defend itself, Axis will save garrisons)

Attacking Holland Axis would win the whole game:
-3pp +% E.r. = 4pp * 155 turns = 620pp

HarryBanana sure will correct my numbers (:
It really seems like a great plan to me !!

< Message edited by ComadrejaKorp -- 12/20/2020 7:16:43 PM >

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/20/2020 7:17:23 PM   
Flaviusx


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Bad idea.

The Allies will invade and take those nice big level 9 ports down the line if you leave them alone.

Economics isn't everything. Logistics matter, too.

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/20/2020 7:26:52 PM   
ComadrejaKorp

 

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Usually I would think like you (I usually invade Norway for example, it gives many strategic possibilities), but this case seems very advantageous for Axis, he can leave this invasion for later and take advantage on BoA and a stronger Barbarossa.
Maybe I'm wrong, we'll see how it works.

< Message edited by ComadrejaKorp -- 12/20/2020 8:36:32 PM >

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/21/2020 12:34:12 AM   
Harrybanana

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Bad idea.

The Allies will invade and take those nice big level 9 ports down the line if you leave them alone.

Economics isn't everything. Logistics matter, too.


You're probably right and I may have to invade Holland at some point. Or maybe not, have to see how it plays out. Alvaro says he likes his games to provide the players with lots of options and this one certainly does.

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 12/21/2020 12:35:31 AM >

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/21/2020 12:38:19 AM   
Harrybanana

 

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MAR 29, 1940

Rain. 1 MS sunk. The Germans build 30 supply trucks and 10 LC. The problem with having the LCs building is that it will be awhile before I can build any more subs.

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/21/2020 12:45:02 AM   
Harrybanana

 

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APR 12, 1940

Snow. The U-Boats have another good turn sinking 8 MS. Germany builds 30 supply trucks and a small inf corps. Italy builds a small corps. Forgot to mention that the BEF has arrived in France in strength. 5 units, 1 of which may be an HQ. I think maybe MM was not planning on using UK units in France, but changed his mind when he read Flaviusx's AAR. But I could be completely wrong about this. Either way it doesn't matter, looks like I will have a hard fight in France.

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/21/2020 2:46:12 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

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quote:

The plan is that by not invading Norway or the Netherlands I will deprive the UK of 78 MS and 3 escorts. I figure that is more or less the equivalent of building 3 more U-Boats. But admittedly this is a test and may not work.

Probably a little gamey but works. Also, probably needs the Belgium event added for the Netherlands so you can't just attack one.

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/21/2020 7:19:17 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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I don't think it is gamey at all. It certainly was not a foregone conclusion when the War began that Germany would invade either Norway or the Netherlands. After all they didn't invade either in WWI. I also don't think that the Netherlands would have entered the War if Belgium alone was invaded. Indeed they probably would have just heaved a big sigh of relief, just like they did in WWI. It is different if the Germans invade the Netherlands alone because everyone would then know that Belgium was next target.

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/22/2020 4:32:36 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

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The gamey part is the German knows because its in the rules that Belgium won't join. Germany invaded the Netherlands when they went into Belgium because they could afford to assume that Belgium wouldn't join the Allies and give the French and British a much shorter better defended river line.

It would be an interesting scenario to play though. Netherlands invaded and Belgium joins the Allies so they can move up to the German border.

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/22/2020 7:46:08 PM   
malkarma

 

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Actually this is the present scenario. You DOW Netherlands and Belgium will joion the allies.

Maybe you was thinking about the opposite? By opposite I mean that you DOW Belgium and Netherlands join the allies.

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/23/2020 3:11:14 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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APR 26, 1940,

Snow. So in both games the weather is rain or snow throughout all 5 turns of March and April. Bad weather isn't too bad for me as I have been waiting for my techs to level up and my panzers built last fall to arrive. I want to capture Belgium in 1 turn. The problem is that the last 2 turns (and 3 of the last 4) have been snow. This means that my units are losing effectiveness each turn rather than gaining it. To compensate I burn through about 40 supply trucks this turn. So if next turn is rain I will have wasted 120 production for nothing.

6 MS sunk. Germans build 30 supply trucks and Italians build 10 supply trucks.

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/23/2020 3:27:25 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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MAY 10, 1940

Clear (thank god). Supposedly I sunk 7 MS and an escort.




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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/23/2020 3:29:12 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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But that French escort continues to be invincible. This happened at least once more; so obviously there is a bug some where.




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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/23/2020 3:31:45 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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The map after my first attack. Note that all my armour, mechanized and air units have received a supply bump. I started the turn with 121 supply trucks and ended with 78.




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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/23/2020 3:36:47 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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The map at the end of my turn. I was especially pleased with only 8 total casualties (6 land and 2 air). The French air force was absent, but I did shoot down 12 British fighters. The reasons for my success in the air are superior experience and effectiveness. My fighters were at about 100% effectiveness due to the expenditure of the supply trucks and the bump I got at the beginning of my turn from the improved weather. The UK won't get this bump until their next turn.




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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/23/2020 3:41:57 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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Current Tech Levels. I am really concerned about the very slow progress of my German heavy armour tech.




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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/23/2020 7:57:28 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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MAY 24, 1940

Remember what I said about my concern with the slow progress of my Heavy Armour tech. Well it didn't advance at all since the last turn. With 5 points invested I don't think I have ever seen that before. Meanwhile my assault tech advanced by almost 50 days.




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< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 12/23/2020 7:58:15 PM >

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/23/2020 8:03:29 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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Edit: Oops ignore this, I screwed up. I did not advance this far on May 24.






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< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 12/24/2020 12:27:49 AM >

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/24/2020 12:29:37 AM   
Harrybanana

 

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MAY 24, 1940,

I sorta got my turns mixed up. In fact all I managed to capture this turn are these 5 measly hexes. I also sank 5 more MS and built 20 more German supply trucks.




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< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 12/24/2020 12:30:53 AM >

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/24/2020 12:45:28 AM   
Harrybanana

 

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JUNE 7, 1940,

Below is the map at the end of my turn. I was feeling pretty good. I destroyed a UK infantry Corps and made some progress towards Paris. Casualties were reasonable and I was killing MM in the air. Some of my armour are looking worn though, even though I again spent about 40 supply trucks on them and my air. Do you think the mechanized unit circled in red is safe? I thought so. He isn't that close to the enemy armour and has a retreat route. I didn't build anything as all my production is being spent on replacements and remotorizing my infantry.




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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/24/2020 1:11:55 AM   
ago1000


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I think its safe too. 2.4 MMs sunk per turn, not bad.

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/24/2020 2:03:42 AM   
Harrybanana

 

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JUNE 21, 1940

It wasn't safe. MM retreated the 2 infantry corps so it had no where to run to and then finished it off with the WDF. He had to make several attacks to accomplish this using, as far as I could tell, a French armour (wish I had one of them in our mirror game), the WDF and 2 mechanized units. Losing 330 production is not good; but the war goes on. Looking at the map I agonized over 2 choices. One was to drop a para NW of Paris to block his retreat and take a go at his armour and mech units; which I hoped were pretty weak after all of his attacks. If successful this would reap me the highest rewards, but it was also risky. The other option was to drop a para a couple hexes east of Paris and attack and breakthrough South through the weakest part of his line. If successful this would hopefully force him to start evacuating his British and therefore speed up the fall of France. So did I seek revenge for my mech, or let the British go in the hope of a speedier conquest?




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< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 12/24/2020 2:13:51 AM >

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/24/2020 2:12:23 AM   
Harrybanana

 

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I attacked South. In the process I shattered 6 French corps and made something of a breakthrough. But will it be enough to send the English dogs running? Meanwhile I sink 2 more MS and yet again sink the unsinkable French escort (are you reading this Alvaro?). I am rapidly depleting my supply trucks. So I build 10 more. The Italians build 20 LC.




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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/24/2020 4:23:53 PM   
Flaviusx


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Harry, you need to use the hold ground option to prevent this sort of thing. All your leading units should be set on hold here. Much harder to get retreats this way.

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/24/2020 5:35:34 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Harry, you need to use the hold ground option to prevent this sort of thing. All your leading units should be set on hold here. Much harder to get retreats this way.


True, but not retreating is not always a good thing. One of my pet peeves is when units will refuse to retreat no matter how battered they are until finally they just shatter. So when units have retreat paths I generally like to let them retreat. In this case, with 2 potential hexes to retreat to, I thought my mech was safe. But in hindsight you are correct and those 3 frontline units should have been set to hold.

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Post #: 55
RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/24/2020 5:51:20 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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JULY 5, 1940

Here are the current Forces and Casualties at the beginning of my turn. So I anticipate that I will have at least 300 total (Land and Air) casualties before the Battle of France is over. Is that good or bad? Keep in mind that I didn't suffer any of the usual casualties invading the Netherlands. Note as well that MM has 19 UK escorts; so he really did start building them early.




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< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 12/24/2020 9:59:01 PM >

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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/24/2020 5:54:04 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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Before my moves. MM's escorts return to give battle. I only sink 1 MS and sustain 1 sub hit.




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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/24/2020 6:13:18 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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The map after my turn. I decided it was time to start capturing some of the objective Cities. I destroyed 1 UK Corps and isolated another out of supply with a paradrop to capture the port. As I was about to end my turn I realized that I had made a big mistake by moving out of the hex circled in red. The reason is that this is my only rail line into France. I can't use the rail line with red X because I never conquered the Netherlands. If MM advances into that hex my units will still be in supply, but at a much reduced supply level. I could only afford to build 10 supply trucks. The rest of my production was spent on replacements.




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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/24/2020 6:44:00 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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JULY 19, 1940

The map at the beginning of my turn. MM did not move into my rail hex (Whew!). But he did make a number of suicide attacks to cause me as many casualties as possible. The UK has pretty much left France except for in the South. I am guessing the units there are on their way to the Middle East. I have not yet taken my turn because I have a decision to make that I have not yet decided upon. The obvious (and safest choice) is to simply destroy the UK Corps in the North and otherwise just capture Paris to trigger the Vichy surrender. The other is to go for the complete conquest of France. I don't usually do this, but the French are very weak right now. The only objective Cities that might be difficult and costly to take are Metz and Marseille. The advantage of this is that I will then gain all of French North Africa without having to fight for it. The disadvantages are that the entire French Navy goes over to the Allies and I will suffer more casualties. I would really appreciate hearing what others think about this.




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RE: HB (Axis) vs MM (Allies) No MM for now - 12/24/2020 7:02:05 PM   
Flaviusx


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Vichy. What does North Africa do for you besides create a lot more places to garrison? And why hand over the French Navy?

The only reason to knock out France entirely like this is if you intend to go all in on the West. If you are planning on a 41 Barbarossa, wrap this up ASAP.

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