How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter?

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How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/1/2020 9:14:03 PM

Daza99

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Has anyone being able to try yet?

Currently i haven't been able to because of the carry cargo space needed vs weight/op range. I presume like 500 MG Inf (about the smallest group you can raise with lowest combined weight) with a weight of 5 each is 2500kg so you need to have the 3000kg cargo space, so if you managed to have a decent range with a helicopter to lift them how does one go about it? even with short range this might be useful to get over mountains or airlift a unit that needs an evac ie. troops numbers very low and near the front lines.

As a secondary question; is it possible to load supplies onto a helicopter to resupply a cut off unit who is on the brink of starving?

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/1/2020 9:25:11 PM

Destragon

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Yeah, I have done an airlift with a helicopter. It works exactly like strat moving, even into territory that you don't control.

About the supply question, air bridges work exactly like any other logistics points (at least they should, if they don't then it's a bug), so yes, supplies will travel through them.

Edit: I think you don't realise that when you raise a helicopter formation, you don't just get 1 helicopter, you get 30 of them, so you don't need to put gigantic cargo space on them, because their cargo space gets combined. You can also just raise additional helicopters.

Edit 2: Okay, I just looked at my heavy transport helicopter and saw that it does use the 3k cargo storage. One formation of them delivers 90 logistics points to the target hex, which is just enough to airlift a fully supplied independent MG battalion with its 85 logistics cost for strat moving.

< Message edited by Destragon -- 12/1/2020 9:34:34 PM >

(in reply to Daza99)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/1/2020 9:45:21 PM

Daza99

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

Yeah, I have done an airlift with a helicopter. It works exactly like strat moving, even into territory that you don't control.

About the supply question, air bridges work exactly like any other logistics points (at least they should, if they don't then it's a bug), so yes, supplies will travel through them.

Edit: I think you don't realise that when you raise a helicopter formation, you don't just get 1 helicopter, you get 30 of them, so you don't need to put gigantic cargo space on them, because their cargo space gets combined. You can also just raise additional helicopters.

Edit 2: Okay, I just looked at my heavy transport helicopter and saw that it does use the 3k cargo storage. One formation of them delivers 90 logistics points to the target hex, which is just enough to airlift a fully supplied independent MG battalion with its 85 logistics cost for strat moving.

Yes you are right, i am forgetting that fact when thinking about airlifting.

Could you elaborate a little more on how you moved the units exactly via helicopter? i feel like i need to link a unit to the helicopter or something.

And is it possible to move supplies to a unit in the field this way?

< Message edited by Daza99 -- 12/1/2020 10:03:02 PM >

(in reply to Destragon)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/1/2020 10:06:43 PM

Destragon

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Nope, you don't link units to the helicopter. This is actually one area where SE is super elegant, because it's simply handled via strat moving.

You take your helicopter, put on the air bridge order and right click some place. Go to the next turn. Now you have logistics points on the targeted hex, which count as connected to the hex that the helicopters are standing on. Now you just select your unit, press S and right click them to the destination.

(in reply to Daza99)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/1/2020 10:12:53 PM

Maerchen

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So I can now use airborn commando troops? Nice! Does this work on enemy territory, reserved I do not get attacked while deploying air bridge?

_____________________________

The logistics hell this game is IS the fun part! - Maerchen, 2020

The good thing is, we have all the information in the reports. The bad thing is, we have all the information. Maerchen, 2020

Came for SE. Will stay for SE.

(in reply to Destragon)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/1/2020 10:18:08 PM

Destragon

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Yeah, I said above that it works. You can establish air bridge missions into enemy territory, but if that causes combat to happen, then the enemies will have a +50% to their attack, according to the manual.

I still haven't tested air bridges that much yet. I'm guessing there could still be a bunch of bugs in there.

(in reply to Maerchen)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/1/2020 10:50:49 PM

Soar_Slitherine

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A notable limitation of air bridges is that they can't be used to found new zones or construct buildings unless there's a road connection from the construction target hex to an existing city. As mentioned upthread, supplying units via air bridge should work like normal logistics (expect that fuel & energy as well as water will have a logistics weight of 1 per unit instead of 0, as you obviously can't run pipes & cables across the sky).

EDIT: Clarity.

< Message edited by Soar_Slitherine -- 12/1/2020 11:06:19 PM >

(in reply to Destragon)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/2/2020 12:36:50 AM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine

A notable limitation of air bridges is that they can't be used to found new zones or construct buildings unless there's a road connection from the construction target hex to an existing city. As mentioned upthread, supplying units via air bridge should work like normal logistics (expect that fuel & energy as well as water will have a logistics weight of 1 per unit instead of 0, as you obviously can't run pipes & cables across the sky).

EDIT: Clarity.

So it basically works like a Train Line, that goes through the Air?

I thought it might have been implemented like a Road. But in retrospect trains do make the better basis for Air Bridges. Like no dropping off along the way, seperate distribution on the target hex.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 12/2/2020 12:37:52 AM >

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/2/2020 12:46:30 AM

Daza99

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

Nope, you don't link units to the helicopter. This is actually one area where SE is super elegant, because it's simply handled via strat moving.

You take your helicopter, put on the air bridge order and right click some place. Go to the next turn. Now you have logistics points on the targeted hex, which count as connected to the hex that the helicopters are standing on. Now you just select your unit, press S and right click them to the destination.

I can't get this to work for me. The unit has a combined weight of 5000 and the chopper formation of 30 (250kg)has 7500.

Update: still trying to get this to work. I went to the logistics menu and selected current, it shows a 6 on the destination hex. In the Air-bridge menu it says 6 Air points, so i presume air points = logistic points. Something the manual doesn't mention. This might be the issue? not enough logistic points to carry the inf? but this confuses me, because i thought the carry weight (formation combined) is the logistic points much like truck points.

Another question, when it does work, especially with planes that have to land at another airbase- does the strategic arrow point straight to the air-port? because when i Strat. moved some troops it seemed to use the road path. The Logistics or air points for air-base was 36.

Personally i think it would of been more intuitive and easier to grasp if you just clicked on the chopper and then rmb a unit in same hex and its icon/flag moved to the other side of the panel below the pic of the chopper. Then move the chopper and move them back to the left panel to have them disembark as it were.

< Message edited by Daza99 -- 12/2/2020 8:01:47 AM >

(in reply to Destragon)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/2/2020 11:28:42 AM

Destragon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daza99

I can't get this to work for me. The unit has a combined weight of 5000 and the chopper formation of 30 (250kg)has 7500.

I wasn't clear enough on this. The game arranges aircraft units into subunits that are 10 each, just like it does with vehicles. That means you have to take the carry capacity times 3, not times 30.
For example, when I click on my transport heli, it says "Carry 30". A full squadron of them at full readiness will delivery 90 logistics points.

quote:

... so i presume air points = logistic points. Something the manual doesn't mention.

It's just like how truck logistics points are called "truck points" and how train logistics are called "maglev points". They all work the same way for logistics purposes, it just makes sure that supply bases don't work for trains and stuff like that.

quote:

Another question, when it does work, especially with planes that have to land at another airbase- does the strategic arrow point straight to the air-port? because when i Strat. moved some troops it seemed to use the road path. The Logistics or air points for air-base was 36.

They probably prefer to use non-airplane logistics when they have the option. When there is enemy anti-air in the area, then it can actually be dangerous to use the air logistics.

quote:

Personally i think it would of been more intuitive and easier to grasp if you just clicked on the chopper and then rmb a unit in same hex and its icon/flag moved to the other side of the panel below the pic of the chopper. Then move the chopper and move them back to the left panel to have them disembark as it were.

I think that when you are used to strat moving in the game, then the way it works now is actually a lot more intuitive and simple.

< Message edited by Destragon -- 12/2/2020 11:29:51 AM >

(in reply to Daza99)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/2/2020 1:14:39 PM

zgrssd

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My understanding (not yet actually tested) is that Airbridges work like a Train line:
- you got a start point of the line. That is the airbase your Airlifters are stationed at
- you get a end point of the line. That is where you target the Airlifters "air bridge" mission
- there is no dropping off along the way. Strat move and the supplies end up in that Hex precisely. Any other movement, they have to do under own power or via Operation Logistics
- supplies and units on strategic move use that connection, like they would any other logistics connection
- note that supplies generally are send first over any Logistics connection. What you use for Strategic Move is merely what is left after everything automatic went through. So do not expect to airlift a army, if you already send tons of supplies
- it is likely the game still prefers Train, then road connections wherever possible. For the Reason Destragon mentioned - it is damn dangerous to fly there for everyone involved

Airlifting anything more then a guy with a rifle in real life is not a easy task. I would asume the game imitates that.
More often then not, the gear that paratroopers use had to be specifically designed to be leightweight and small enough to fit into a glider or be carried by one person.
They had special and rather weak artillery and they were lucky if they got Jeeps, nevermind light tanks. Even machineguns and their ammo or Infantry anti-tank weapons were are rare comodity - the stuff was just too heavy.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 12/2/2020 1:15:40 PM >

(in reply to Destragon)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/3/2020 12:43:01 AM

Daza99

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Thanks Destragon for your reply.

I have used strategic movement in the past with moving troops around but i had been thinking it will but a strain on the logistics network (unless its max out or fully rail system etc).

It makes it a little trickier (for me at least) when numbers are used in the game its kind of scaled, like 1cr is 1000 credits, 10 units of troops on the icon is actually 1000 etc, which makes sense to do this when showing info on space space. Perhaps the reason why we see it in larger windows of info is for consistency?
Anyway so my chopper has a carry weight of 250kg but actually (in design log) rounds it down to 2 when looking at the info. So 2 x 30 = 60 which is why it shows 6 on the hex right? so the weight for the soldiers is 5 per unit i presume (which would be i suppose 50kg?). So how do we calculate how much logistic points we need to move them?

It be easier to display the logistics figure of the desired unit you want to transit on the info window and also on the transport aircraft as well showing max logistics it can haul (as a formation) or the air points, which would make it easier to work things out without having to use a calculator. I'm one of those not great at adding in my head. It would seem air transport is a waste of time until you have heavy transport planes maxed out.

I am not sure if one could use choppers to haul supplies to a hex for cut off units?

Another thing not clear- does transport air unit once the air bridge is considered active have to move to the destination or it can remain where it is and after x turns when the air bridge finishes- its like the air unit flew back to its original position?

(in reply to zgrssd)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/3/2020 1:30:48 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daza99

Thanks Destragon for your reply.

I have used strategic movement in the past with moving troops around but i had been thinking it will but a strain on the logistics network (unless its max out or fully rail system etc).

[...]

Another thing not clear- does transport air unit once the air bridge is considered active have to move to the destination or it can remain where it is and after x turns when the air bridge finishes- its like the air unit flew back to its original position?

Strategic Movement exclusively uses leftover logistics points. Stuff that was not use for any of the 4 SHQ functions.
So your first worry is unfounded.

And it can only transfer the entire unit in one move order. If you got no leftover logistics capacity for the whole unit? No startegic move for the unit!
So your second question is a scenario that can not happen.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 12/3/2020 1:32:17 PM >

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/3/2020 9:42:54 PM

Daza99

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Thanks zgrssd for your reply. Thats great info there. Noted.

The only remaining question is working out how much Logistics a unit will consume or use when moving them to an Air Bridge destination?

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/4/2020 5:52:39 AM

Akrakorn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daza99

Thanks zgrssd for your reply. Thats great info there. Noted.

The only remaining question is working out how much Logistics a unit will consume or use when moving them to an Air Bridge destination?

If you select the Strategic Move order, you will see the weight of the unit (the amount of logistic points used) in the lower right part of the screen. There are two numbers. The number on the left is what the unit weighs, the unit on thee right is how many logistical points are left on the route, depending on where your cursor is aiming. So if you have your cursor at the end of a road (or at the other end of an Air Bridge), it may say something like 36 (what the unit weighs) / 750 (logistical points left).

(in reply to Daza99)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/4/2020 8:33:10 AM

Daza99

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Akrakorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daza99

Thanks zgrssd for your reply. Thats great info there. Noted.

The only remaining question is working out how much Logistics a unit will consume or use when moving them to an Air Bridge destination?

If you select the Strategic Move order, you will see the weight of the unit (the amount of logistic points used) in the lower right part of the screen. There are two numbers. The number on the left is what the unit weighs, the unit on thee right is how many logistical points are left on the route, depending on where your cursor is aiming. So if you have your cursor at the end of a road (or at the other end of an Air Bridge), it may say something like 36 (what the unit weighs) / 750 (logistical points left).

Thanks for your reply Akrakorn. At first i thought you meant i should be seeing where it says lower right eg.
Strategic Move Mode - Weight:80 / 192

But the second number you are talking about is on the hex itself right? when we have 'Current Points' selected in the Logistics panel it will show us the correct number we need to work with.

(in reply to Akrakorn)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/4/2020 8:40:09 AM

Akrakorn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daza99

quote:

ORIGINAL: Akrakorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daza99

Thanks zgrssd for your reply. Thats great info there. Noted.

The only remaining question is working out how much Logistics a unit will consume or use when moving them to an Air Bridge destination?

If you select the Strategic Move order, you will see the weight of the unit (the amount of logistic points used) in the lower right part of the screen. There are two numbers. The number on the left is what the unit weighs, the unit on thee right is how many logistical points are left on the route, depending on where your cursor is aiming. So if you have your cursor at the end of a road (or at the other end of an Air Bridge), it may say something like 36 (what the unit weighs) / 750 (logistical points left).

Thanks for your reply Akrakorn. At first i thought you meant i should be seeing where it says lower right eg.
Strategic Move Mode - Weight:80 / 192

But the second number you are talking about is on the hex itself right? when we have 'Current Points' selected in the Logistics panel it will show us the correct number we need to work with.

The second number tells you how many logistical points are available for you to use for transporting the unit you have selected to the hex your mouse is currently hovering. You can see the logistical points in each hex using the "Current Points" view mode in the Logistics panel yes, but that second number will tell you how many points are available for the route. That's always the lower number in a route. For instance:

You want to move from Hex A to D.
-Hex A has 600 current logistical points
-Hex B has 400 current logistical points
-Hex C has 500 current logistical points
-Hex D has 450 current logistical points

The second number will say you have 400 points available for Strategic Move.

(in reply to Daza99)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/4/2020 8:50:00 AM

Daza99

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This is what i am seeing on my screen, i do not see a second number, just the number from the Current Points in green on the hex.

(in reply to Akrakorn)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/4/2020 10:10:39 AM

Akrakorn

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The second number seems to have been added in v1.06.06

(in reply to Daza99)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/4/2020 11:12:01 AM

Destragon

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There was another change to air bridge strat movement in .06, units past the maximum size of the air bridge can't be transported anymore, cause I guess you can't transpot a heavy tank in individual pieces via multiple helicopters:

The changelog says "sqrt(average Cargo space / 1000) = Maximum Size".
That means the absolute maximum size of a unit you can transport is 15, because the biggest cargo space option for extra heavy aircraft is 250k. However, I dunno if it's even possible to make something with a cargo space of 250k fly at all. It might need a bunch of optimisation tech to make it possible.

Welp, I can make an extra heavy aircraft with 250k cargo space fly with 35 fuel efficiency optimisation, but only 2 hexes on a planet with 0.5 gravity and 0.8 atmosphere. haha

< Message edited by Destragon -- 12/4/2020 1:20:28 PM >

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/4/2020 6:56:40 PM

Daza99

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Akrakorn

The second number seems to have been added in v1.06.06

Ah that explains it then. It looks like the Steam version presently doesn't update as games do on Steam, even the launcher window is missing the Check for Updates. Preferably the game should update through steam as most games on there do, hopefully Vic will address this soon.

I wonder if using choppers it will be possible to resupply a cut off unit since the logistic points will appear at the destination of the air bridge? would this work? perhaps a foolish trip if enemies nearby but lets say a supply road is cut off much further down the line.

< Message edited by Daza99 -- 12/4/2020 7:00:51 PM >

(in reply to Akrakorn)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/4/2020 7:18:21 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daza99

quote:

ORIGINAL: Akrakorn

The second number seems to have been added in v1.06.06

Ah that explains it then. It looks like the Steam version presently doesn't update as games do on Steam, even the launcher window is missing the Check for Updates. Preferably the game should update through steam as most games on there do, hopefully Vic will address this soon.

I wonder if using choppers it will be possible to resupply a cut off unit since the logistic points will appear at the destination of the air bridge? would this work? perhaps a foolish trip if enemies nearby but lets say a supply road is cut off much further down the line.

My understanding is that he uses the Steam way to public both Betas and Updates. However, by nature steam is slower in that regard.

(in reply to Daza99)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/4/2020 8:02:53 PM

Destragon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daza99

Ah that explains it then. It looks like the Steam version presently doesn't update as games do on Steam, even the launcher window is missing the Check for Updates. Preferably the game should update through steam as most games on there do, hopefully Vic will address this soon.

It's a beta update. Check the launcher of the Matrix version. It's .05 just like the Steam version.

(in reply to Daza99)

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RE: How do you airlift a mil unit with a Helicopter? - 12/4/2020 8:13:34 PM

Daza99

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Good point about Steam. I see, these are beta release updates i jumped the gun.

(in reply to zgrssd)

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