Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

WITE2 Teaser

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> WITE2 Teaser Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
WITE2 Teaser - 12/1/2020 2:30:21 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 36282
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA1hQ2GWotM&feature=youtu.be

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.
Post #: 1
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/3/2020 1:25:14 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2639
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline
5 PM GMT ? Will it be LIVE on YouTube too ?

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 2
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/3/2020 1:56:37 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 36282
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
The full event happens today!

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4916775

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 3
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/3/2020 9:59:19 PM   
Shupov


Posts: 283
Joined: 2/7/2004
From: United States
Status: offline
Watched the entire show today - the WitE2 screen shots and enhancements are very exciting! I'll be first in line for the release!!

Thanks Erik and Joel

_____________________________

STALINADE

The real RED soda!

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 4
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/4/2020 7:18:51 AM   
AlexSF


Posts: 174
Joined: 9/2/2013
From: France
Status: offline
Great show, loved to hear Joel Billings talk about SSI in the old times and his early works with Gary Grisby.


https://www.wargamer.com/articles/gary-grigsbys-war-in-the-east-2/


< Message edited by AlexSF -- 12/4/2020 7:39:33 AM >


_____________________________

"My centre is yielding. My right is retreating. Situation excellent. I am attacking." Maréchal Foch, 1914.

(in reply to Shupov)
Post #: 5
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/4/2020 7:51:10 AM   
reggimann


Posts: 84
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline
Very nice. Will you post the shown screenshots to the forum in their full 4K glory?

_____________________________

WitP-AE - WitE - WitW

(in reply to AlexSF)
Post #: 6
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/4/2020 9:42:44 AM   
comte


Posts: 2346
Joined: 2/4/2009
From: Be'eri, Hadarom, Israel
Status: offline
Hey guys any chance you can start a WITE 2 screenshot thread? On my browser (Windows Edge) I can't zoom into any of the screenshots.

_____________________________

But when Territories are acquired in regions where there are differences in language, customs, and laws then great good fortune and much hard work are required to hold them.

-Machiavelli, Il Principe, Book III-

(in reply to reggimann)
Post #: 7
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/4/2020 10:18:13 AM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 409
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: comte

Hey guys any chance you can start a WITE 2 screenshot thread? On my browser (Windows Edge) I can't zoom into any of the screenshots.


Hi Comte if you right click on a screenshot, select 'open image in new tab' and then expand it in the new tab you should be able to view it full size

Enjoyed the interview - really interested to see the new theatre boxes/strategic reserve in action. Really looking forward to the new air module as well.

Is there likely to be any expansion of the current beta testing setup as we move closer to release?

< Message edited by Sammy5IsAlive -- 12/4/2020 10:23:03 AM >

(in reply to comte)
Post #: 8
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/4/2020 10:42:12 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7431
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexSF

Great show, loved to hear Joel Billings talk about SSI in the old times and his early works with Gary Grisby.


https://www.wargamer.com/articles/gary-grigsbys-war-in-the-east-2/
Yeah, the good old times. I remember playing Kampfgruppe on the Amiga 500 with its really impressive gun sound during the resolution phase.

(in reply to AlexSF)
Post #: 9
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/5/2020 1:45:37 PM   
Shupov


Posts: 283
Joined: 2/7/2004
From: United States
Status: offline
[image][/image]
quote:

Great show, loved to hear Joel Billings talk about SSI in the old times and his early works with Gary Grigsby


That was one of the best parts!

Did any of you play War in Russia? I thought it should have been mentioned as part of GG's WitE lineage. I would call it WitE0. It came out in 1984 and I played it for years with some of the same people who migrated to WitE in 2010.

What an incredible legacy!


< Message edited by Shupov -- 12/5/2020 2:19:44 PM >


_____________________________

STALINADE

The real RED soda!

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 10
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/5/2020 2:33:56 PM   
Shupov


Posts: 283
Joined: 2/7/2004
From: United States
Status: offline
War in Russia




It's marked "Discontinued" on the Matrix website. The version I played was DOS and had to be run in DOSBox on a Windows PC. It was a hassle but worth it!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Shupov -- 12/5/2020 2:39:45 PM >


_____________________________

STALINADE

The real RED soda!

(in reply to Shupov)
Post #: 11
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/5/2020 8:36:12 PM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3201
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: online

Was this a computer adaptation of the old Avalon Hill board game? Kind of looks like it, and it has the same name.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shupov

War in Russia




It's marked "Discontinued" on the Matrix website. The version I played was DOS and had to be run in DOSBox on a Windows PC. It was a hassle but worth it!


(in reply to Shupov)
Post #: 12
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/6/2020 6:30:14 AM   
Light4bettor

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 1/3/2020
Status: offline
1st generation: 1984 Gary Grigsby's "War in Russia." This is the primary original. Corps sized units and black and white map.

2nd generation: 1990 Gary Grigsby's "Second Front: Germany turns East." Still Corps sized, but next generation graphics and steadily improving game detail.

3rd generation: 1993 Gary Grigsby's "War in Russia." Still Corps sized (I believe) but again improving upon Second Front.

3.5 generation: 2000 Matrix update to the 1993 game "Matrix Version."

4th generation: 2010 Gary Grigsby's "War in the East." Now divisional level and the game we know today.

5th generation: 2021 Spring? (hmmmm, I'm guessing no. Bad, but maybe a June 22 release remembering the 80th anniversary of the beginning of that horrifying, nightmare meat-grinder of a war, and I only call it a war to be nice-- it was a two way no-holds barred gore fest).

Previous to the 1984 version I believe there was something released on the early personal computers (1979? Commodore computer?) that, at least graphically, was somewhat similar to what the original Grigsby 1984 game became.

No doubt, as you said, these computer renditions (namely the 1979? and 1984 versions) were inspired by the eastern front monster board games of the early 1970s. Maybe Avalon Hill was the only company that had one.



< Message edited by Light4bettor -- 12/6/2020 8:00:04 AM >

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 13
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/6/2020 6:52:46 AM   
Light4bettor

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 1/3/2020
Status: offline
I found the computer game that preceded the 1984 game. Just to preface, I never played this game so I cannot say how

much this game inspired Gary Grigsby's original 1984 computer game.

That said, it is from Chris Crawford-- 1981, called "Eastern Front(1941)." Crawford's game looks great for its time,

and without a doubt,it was an influence on Grigsby's 1984 game (not least because Crawford's game was the very first

Eastern front computer game ever made; which of course makes Grigsby's the second one ever made).


< Message edited by Light4bettor -- 12/6/2020 7:09:13 AM >

(in reply to Light4bettor)
Post #: 14
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/6/2020 7:17:36 AM   
Light4bettor

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 1/3/2020
Status: offline
Starting with the 1984 iteration, I've played every version. In retrospect, outside of graphical updates (and

harnessing next generational computational power for data), its been very satisfying to see how 2by3's understanding of

that particular conflict has evolved and informed their game design.

So much new eastern front scholarship since the 1980s has really changed perspectives and suggested the need for a re-evaluation of views (sometimes traditionally dogmatic) and primary sources.

< Message edited by Light4bettor -- 12/6/2020 7:44:57 AM >

(in reply to Light4bettor)
Post #: 15
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/6/2020 10:31:09 AM   
loki100


Posts: 9606
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Light4bettor

I found the computer game that preceded the 1984 game. Just to preface, I never played this game so I cannot say how

much this game inspired Gary Grigsby's original 1984 computer game.

That said, it is from Chris Crawford-- 1981, called "Eastern Front(1941)." Crawford's game looks great for its time,

and without a doubt,it was an influence on Grigsby's 1984 game (not least because Crawford's game was the very first

Eastern front computer game ever made; which of course makes Grigsby's the second one ever made).



The developers have always cited the old SPI War in the East as their core inspiration, Joel repeated this in the presentation.

_____________________________


(in reply to Light4bettor)
Post #: 16
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/6/2020 5:51:14 PM   
Light4bettor

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 1/3/2020
Status: offline
Thanks, makes sense, this was a 1974 release.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 17
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/6/2020 8:27:29 PM   
piotrmx

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 2/19/2017
Status: offline
Game has upgraided since 1984 but our knowledge about Soviet Army has changed.

(in reply to Light4bettor)
Post #: 18
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/6/2020 10:56:29 PM   
Loammi

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline
Watching the release clip, it appears little improvement has been made on the map. I know there's an awesome map mod floating around someplace, which eludes me so far. Are there any plans in improving the map at all?

(in reply to piotrmx)
Post #: 19
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/7/2020 2:00:34 AM   
Light4bettor

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 1/3/2020
Status: offline
Aesthetically speaking the map hasn't improved dramatically (though its still an improvement), however, they have improved several facets of the map that should improve game-play.

1-- Better map projection (better accounts for the curvature of the earth)-- distances between towns and terrain should line up closer to reality (they were already quite accurate, for a game anyway).

2-- every hex is rated for road quality, and double line rail roads are now represented (and it looks like rail lines have undergone a major revision and their routes to be closer to 1941 reality).

3-- just from the video, its obvious that the terrain layout has undergone a major revision (that probably is closer to what existed during 1941).

4-- weather, like mud and snow, is now easier on the eyes (that's what they said anyway).


< Message edited by Light4bettor -- 12/7/2020 2:02:40 AM >

(in reply to Loammi)
Post #: 20
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/7/2020 7:52:28 AM   
Hanny


Posts: 426
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown


Was this a computer adaptation of the old Avalon Hill board game?



Its boardgame inspiration was the 19734 monster board game drang_nach_osten http://generalstab.org/armory/europa-series/drang_nach_osten/


< Message edited by Hanny -- 12/7/2020 8:00:45 AM >


_____________________________

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 21
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/7/2020 10:01:47 AM   
Shupov


Posts: 283
Joined: 2/7/2004
From: United States
Status: offline
I had SPI War in the East. It was truly a monster game that was too big to play without computers!




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

STALINADE

The real RED soda!

(in reply to Light4bettor)
Post #: 22
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/7/2020 10:19:39 AM   
Hanny


Posts: 426
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shupov

I had SPI War in the East. It was truly a monster game that was too big to play without computers!

I still tend to think of those monster games ( SPI Terrible Swift Sword etc) as a major commitment of time and effort, and WiTE is the same mindset for me.

< Message edited by Hanny -- 12/7/2020 10:20:57 AM >


_____________________________

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

(in reply to Shupov)
Post #: 23
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/8/2020 12:37:05 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 30907
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shupov

I had SPI War in the East. It was truly a monster game that was too big to play without computers!





Love that picture. We managed to set it up and play it on a ping pong table in the garage in early 1975. We had 5 players IIRC. We got to 1942 playing it 1-2 nights a week for about 3 months. It took us this long to figure out the game out of the box was unbalanced and we only later found the addendum that had come out with a major rule change re Soviet industry on map shutting down. But even so, we had a lot of fun with that game. I played it solo for at least one entire summer in high school when it first came out. I later got Drang Nach Osten but never found much time to play it. It did seem to be more realistic than WitE. Those were great games.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Shupov)
Post #: 24
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/10/2020 4:54:25 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4306
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
The new WitE2 Forum is now up:https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=1795&p=&tmode=1&smode=1

I've made the first post but to save time here it is too:

In preparation for the release of War in the East 2 in the Spring, Roger (loki100) and I are going to be making posts to showcase some of the game’s new features that improve on the mechanics of both the original War in the East and War in the West. Feel free to ask questions as we go. As Roger has also written the Manual he has a lot of detailed background knowledge and he’ll also be posting an AAR, starting in January, so you can see the features in play there too.

In this first post we are going to look at some of the more subtle changes that we have made to ground combat and movement. On their own they don’t seem to be big changes but collectively they have quite a significant impact on how the turns play out. There is now a complex interplay of administrative movement, command preparation points , Assault HQs and combat delay.

Roads & Movement

One of the first things you may have noticed with the new map is that each hex now has a road value. Including roads has allowed two changes to be made in the rules. The first is more obvious. Moving through hexes that have poor terrain (like heavy woods and swamps) or weather (mud and snow) but do have a road is cheaper than those that have no roads at all. The second change is a little more complex. It is called rear area administrative movement – any unit that moves along roads in hexes that were friendly at the start of the turn and have no interdiction will pay a reduced movement cost. This will save from 1MP per hex if the road is poor up to 3MP per hex if the road is good. This represents movement in a convoy rather than in a tactical formation. In essence moving a turn later means that units can move further. In reality the impact of adding roads is somewhat counter intuitive as it focuses movement into manoeuvre corridors as this screenshot shows. The soviet player is choosing not to defend in the bottom right corner as the terrain is so unsuitable. Showing roads as a more visible dark red can be toggled on/off.



Command Preparation Points

We all know that before major offensives or when preparing a deliberate defensive operation the more time that you have to prepare pays dividends. This preparation time is now factored into the game and we call it Command Preparation Points (CPPs). CPPs are gained by units that have remaining strategic movement points at the end of the turn. However those units in a friendly hex that haven’t moved or fought at all will gain the biggest improvement. The more CPPs you have the better the effects. CPPs increase attacking CV, reduce fatigue due to movement and in defence improve the chances of calling in artillery support. However as units move and fight they lose the CPPs they have gained. Going hell for leather is no longer necessarily the best policy. A more considered advance, with units moving in echelon and taking advantage of the administrative movement rules, may be a more sustainable approach; even before logistics are factored in. CPPs are such a game changer in successful operations that we thought an extract from the manual would be of benefit to prove the point:



Assault HQs

Another new feature replicates the focus of the Staff on the operations of specific Armies and Fronts. Players can now designate a number of the high-level HQs as Assault HQs. This increases the command point capacity of the HQ so more units can be attached with no penalties. Subordinate HQs and Units also gain a number of bonuses from Assault HQ status: these include gaining Combat Preparation Points faster, an increased chance to pass support checks and extra artillery ammunition for soviet artillery before 1944. There is however a catch. Units under an Assault HQ can only build to level 1 fortifications.

Combat Delay

Combat Delay was first introduced in WitW. It represents the time consumed in a turn by combat within a hex and which doesn’t immediately impact on those units who did not take place in the attack itself, and therefore saved MPs. Depending on the amount of combat in a hex an extra charge of up to 9 MPs can be charged on a unit that is leaving the hex. This prevents the tactic of using infantry units to clear a hole in the line and then charging through with motorized units who have a full allocation of MPs. The screenshot shows not only the black star that indicates a combat delay but also the new symbols that remind players that movement is generating fatigue (teardrop) and losing CPPs (crossed swords)



Together these four new elements pose the player with a whole new range of challenges, options and trade-offs. How you focus your staff effort and push your units will impact their ability to fight.

In our next post we are going to have a look at the new realistic weather system and the variation that it offers.


_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 25
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/10/2020 5:10:02 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 36282
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shupov
Did any of you play War in Russia? I thought it should have been mentioned as part of GG's WitE lineage. I would call it WitE0. It came out in 1984 and I played it for years with some of the same people who migrated to WitE in 2010.


I remember getting War in Russia in 1984, big gray box with two (!) floppy disks and a great laminated map for planning. Much thinner manual and a much simpler game, but still the entire Eastern Front on the computer. Enjoyed many great hours of gaming with that one.


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Shupov)
Post #: 26
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/11/2020 1:35:37 AM   
Light4bettor

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 1/3/2020
Status: offline
That was the first serious war I game I played (Apple IIe). The games cover art made an impression on me- The damaged German helmet with the SSI logo on the bottom of the title. Enjoyed reading through that manual. Really added immersion to the game. Innocent days when you didn't have a clue what war could really entail.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 27
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/11/2020 2:11:50 AM   
Light4bettor

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 1/3/2020
Status: offline
That box art from Guadalcanal, Bomb Alley, WIR (1984),etc etc, was excellent marketing and compelling art. Revisiting it again now, I would love to get my hands on that art for display purposes. I dunno if you still have any rights to it, but it would if you could release that box art again. Nostalgia.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 28
RE: WITE2 Teaser - 12/11/2020 7:59:35 AM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4306
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loammi

Watching the release clip, it appears little improvement has been made on the map. I know there's an awesome map mod floating around someplace, which eludes me so far. Are there any plans in improving the map at all?


The map has been completely redone including all the coding, topographic projection and artwork.

The new WitE2 map is a mosaic - each hex has its own art which is built from several separate elements with embedded alpha channels. WitE uses tableaus just like a traditional painting. Artistically the WitE2 map is significantly harder to create because you don't see the finished product until you load the game and you have to have pixel accuracy between hexes as the game builds the picture. Tableaus are so much easier to draw to a much higher standard. I expect this is why you think little has improved.

The reason the WitE2 now uses a mosaic (with its inherent artistic challenges) is because it is so much less computer resource hungry: resource that we can re-invest into other improvements like a more realistic logistic system. Another big advantage is that as we have gone along we have been able to change hex types, move rivers, rails and roads and add new locations in moments making the map much more accurate. Finally having a map built as a mosaic allows us to show more dynamically what is happening in each hex - this can be the ground conditions like mud, rail usage or the freezing of rivers. My particular favourite is that the woods and forest art now change with the seasons.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Loammi)
Post #: 29
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> WITE2 Teaser Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.316