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Preparing for an offensive - logistics

 
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Preparing for an offensive - logistics - 11/24/2020 6:21:39 PM   
PaulAllen1982

 

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Hi all,
Just wondered the typical steps you take when preparing to make an offensive push into enemy territory?

I'm in a decent position to encircle enemy troops but am worried about supply.

I've got an upgraded truck station in all of my cities and have a supply depot in the direction of the push I'm about to make to extend range.

I've also built a second truck station about 5 hexes out from my nearest city in the direction of my offensive.
(Not sure if that's particularly helpful but it seemed like it would make sense in real life)

Got sealed roads running right up to the border where I'm about to invade.

Is there anything else I should be doing to maximise supply efficiency before invading?
Post #: 1
RE: Preparing for an offensive - logistics - 11/24/2020 7:13:39 PM   
Soar_Slitherine

 

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Pay special attention to the logistics situation around the city your SHQ is in. It is easy to get bottlenecked there since all the replacements, supply and SHQ resources have to pass through there, and once that happens it can take additional turns for the logistics system to process the accumulated backlog after the root cause is resolved.

(in reply to PaulAllen1982)
Post #: 2
RE: Preparing for an offensive - logistics - 11/25/2020 6:40:47 AM   
Tomn

 

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Depends on the specific situation, really. However, the key thing to note is that unless your enemy is very small and has only one city very close to your borders, you are going to need to build new logistical bases further in as you advance - it's rare for preparations beforehand to be wholly adequate to the task of conquest, especially of a major regime.

Other general notes:

1) Supply depots can expand your range, but not your capacity. If you're going to push additional brigades to the front during the course of the war, you'll need more truck stations eventually.

2) You can usually survive for a little while at the far end of your supply lines - this can give you the breathing room necessary to establish new forward logistical bases, so don't be afraid to push past your logistics a little if it gives you an edge.

3) For absolute best practices against a serious major regime, you'll usually want a rail line extending from your SHQ to the closest point to the front terminating in both a railhead/station and a truck stop. Generally speaking rail should provide the main arteries of supply, with truck stops providing the capillaries. This isn't as important early on when you're fighting your first war with a minor regime and it is expensive to set up, so early wars can be fought with truck stations but eventually you want to link all your cities by rail, with rail lines to all major fronts.

4) That being said, once the offensive kicks off it'll probably be too expensive and time-consuming to set up rail into conquered territory on a regular basis, so you'll want to use truck stations and supply depots as your offensive arm, occasionally establishing new rail lines to consolidate your gains once you have enough to be worth consolidating.

5) Remember that shipping replacement troops from SHQ to make good your casualties costs logistical capacity above and beyond normal supply purposes - always make sure you have a healthy logistical surplus to cover that. It'd also help if your logistical network was strong enough to allow strategic transfer of brigades as well, to help provide you with flexibility if things aren't going well.

6) When positioning your supply assets, pay close attention to your logistical overlays - you want to position your new assets right where they can pick up the slack of the old assets when they start faltering. Too far out and your supply lines will be weaker - too close in and they'll be inefficient. A second station five hexes out sounds pretty close in, to be honest, but check our logistical overlays to be sure. When conducting an offensive, it's usually best to have a logistical asset as close to the border of the attack as you can, to maximize the amount of time and territory you can go through before needing to construct a new one.

7) I mentioned this in the other points but taking a second look at your posts I feel the need to stress this: Make use of your logistical overlays - current logistical points, initial logistical points, used points, etc. Build your logistics on the basis of hard data, not what's realistic or feels right.

8) Finally, sometimes in order to learn how things you work you need to just bite the bullet and kick things off and see what happens. Don't be afraid to experiment - or even lose. Learn what you can from each failure and keep diagnosing your weaknesses.

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)
Post #: 3
RE: Preparing for an offensive - logistics - 11/25/2020 7:52:33 AM   
PaulAllen1982

 

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Thanks everyone,
I've been trying to get to grips with the logistics layers to inform where I need to increase my capacity (e.g where the bottleneck layer shows areas in black, this seems to indicate there's not enough capacity to meet needs)

Good pointer there as well about using a rail line as your main way of shipping supply to the front line, then truck stations to spread it out from that point.


(in reply to Tomn)
Post #: 4
RE: Preparing for an offensive - logistics - 11/25/2020 11:35:10 PM   
Tomn

 

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Yeah, just keep in mind that the key direct advantage of rail is range, strictly speaking, rather than capacity. For a given long distance it takes far fewer rail stations to carry the same logistical capacity as truck stations, but over short distances there's little advantage.

And yeah, black in the bottleneck layer indicates you need more capacity. Remember that for most scenarios it's arguably more efficient to upgrade existing logistical assets than to create new ones entirely. Especially true if you have lots of sealed roads and are relying on truck stations.

(in reply to PaulAllen1982)
Post #: 5
RE: Preparing for an offensive - logistics - 11/26/2020 3:07:03 AM   
DasTactic

 

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Also keep in mind that before an offensive starts you typically have your attack forces sitting in position not expending ammunition so the supply situation should look really healthy at that time. Once the push starts then you need to ship food, fuel and ammo through the supply network. So if you run into problems after you start there may be times you need to just sit and let the supply situation catch up a little before the next push. Also you may need to start removing or blocking roads in the enemy territory to ensure your supplied get to the forward troops.

(in reply to Tomn)
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RE: Preparing for an offensive - logistics - 11/26/2020 7:24:48 AM   
PaulAllen1982

 

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Wow, the elements of this game really are linked together in a way I haven't encountered before.

Some of my front line units are fuel guzzling heavy tanks and as I moved them into position my fuel stocks took a nosedive.

I was also expanding truck stations in multiple cities at the same time, presumably eating up logistics points to ship the required metal around the map.

One of my border truck stations seemed to run out of fuel as a result of the above, causing shortage chaos across my network!

After a few turns sitting still, it cleared itself up, which emphasizes your point Das.

This is fascinating stuff though as it means my mammoth heavy tanks are of limited use with my current situation and I'd be better off with a more fuel-efficient medium tank for now.
I can't say that I've had to go through that thought process in any other game.
I like it!

(in reply to DasTactic)
Post #: 7
RE: Preparing for an offensive - logistics - 11/26/2020 12:29:24 PM   
mroyer

 

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Excellent discussion thread...

quote:


Build your logistics on the basis of hard data, not what's realistic or feels right.


Where does one find the hard data? It's easy enough to project the peacetime logistical consumption from for a given supply branch based roughly on the current turn's usage, but how does one predict the added burden of an offensive. Do players literally sum up, one by one, the projected consumption of each unit for each supply leg? Is that how people acquire the hard data?

-Mark R.


< Message edited by mroyer -- 11/26/2020 12:30:48 PM >

(in reply to PaulAllen1982)
Post #: 8
RE: Preparing for an offensive - logistics - 11/26/2020 12:36:05 PM   
mroyer

 

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quote:

This is fascinating stuff though as it means my mammoth heavy tanks are of limited use with my current situation and I'd be better off with a more fuel-efficient medium tank for now.



https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4905073

I feel like the heavy tank regiment (in that game I talk about in the above link) crushed my entire eastern front. Once they got there, they crushed the supply net and all the other units went into starvation quickly collapsing the entire front. I couldn't disband the heavy tank regiment fast enough and never figured out a way to prioritize other units and stop the flow of supply to tanks.

-Mark R.


< Message edited by mroyer -- 11/26/2020 12:41:25 PM >

(in reply to PaulAllen1982)
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RE: Preparing for an offensive - logistics - 11/26/2020 6:19:13 PM   
PaulAllen1982

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mroyer

quote:

This is fascinating stuff though as it means my mammoth heavy tanks are of limited use with my current situation and I'd be better off with a more fuel-efficient medium tank for now.



https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4905073

I feel like the heavy tank regiment (in that game I talk about in the above link) crushed my entire eastern front.


Sounds like I hit the same sort of issue as you there. Have to use my heavies as static defence until I either improve fuel efficiency or get a lot more fuel available.

(in reply to mroyer)
Post #: 10
RE: Preparing for an offensive - logistics - 12/6/2020 2:26:13 PM   
elmo3

 

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@ DasTactic - I've watched many of your very helpful tutorial videos from June in preparation for buying the game when my Matrix coupon lands next week. However the logistics videos have me worried. The whole system looked pretty awkward back then and having to micromanage stop signs looked pretty tedious. Has the logistics changed a lot since June, and are the changes for the better? Thanks.

_____________________________

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(in reply to PaulAllen1982)
Post #: 11
RE: Preparing for an offensive - logistics - 12/6/2020 5:29:38 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3014
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaulAllen1982

Hi all,
Just wondered the typical steps you take when preparing to make an offensive push into enemy territory?

I'm in a decent position to encircle enemy troops but am worried about supply.

I've got an upgraded truck station in all of my cities and have a supply depot in the direction of the push I'm about to make to extend range.

I've also built a second truck station about 5 hexes out from my nearest city in the direction of my offensive.
(Not sure if that's particularly helpful but it seemed like it would make sense in real life)

Got sealed roads running right up to the border where I'm about to invade.

Is there anything else I should be doing to maximise supply efficiency before invading?

I wrote a guide to logistics, both here and on Steam:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2308877114
wich is in large part based on how the Romans did it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Vo8VnazNw

The SHQ is your Strategic Base.
The Operational base is the nearest city to the troops, but will keep moving as you conquer or lose terrain.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 12/6/2020 5:39:10 PM >

(in reply to PaulAllen1982)
Post #: 12
RE: Preparing for an offensive - logistics - 12/6/2020 5:44:15 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3014
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: online
(wrong thread)

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 12/6/2020 6:41:04 PM >

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 13
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