Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

[Save Required] Patriot/David's Sling against Crossing Ballistic Missiles

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Tech Support >> [Save Required] Patriot/David's Sling against Crossing Ballistic Missiles Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
[Save Required] Patriot/David's Sling against Crossing ... - 11/21/2020 8:23:56 PM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1531
Joined: 3/21/2014
Status: offline
I have been playing around with Broken Shield 300, and I finally made it to the end where the Syrian side fires off ballistic missiles at Israel. They are successfully fended of by the THAADs and the Arrows. That function works perfectly.

After about 2 or 3 waves of ballistic missiles, the Israeli side needs to reload, but here comes another wave of ballistic missiles. The only available units to be able to shoot at the ballistic missiles are some Patriot batteries, and some David's Sling batteries. Of course, neither of these can shoot until the ballistic missiles re-enter the atmosphere from space. The ceiling for both of the Israeli missiles is 100k feet. When the ballistic missiles are within the parameters, both of the Israeli missiles fire. These are Crossing Targets that are essentially being fired at from about a 45 degree angle. In every case, when the Patriot or David's Sling missiles got close to the ballistic missile, a message would indicate that they had "overshot their target."

Granted, hitting a ballistic missile is hard enough, and hitting a fast moving ballistic missile is even harder, and if you add the fact that it is a crossing target as well, then it is probably really difficult.

So, without getting too deep into this topic, are these two missiles working as designed? Or, should they have been able to intercept the ballistic missiles under those circumstances? They certainly arrive in the area as designed, but they always indicate that they have "overshot" their target.

If you say that that is how it is supposed to work, then I am perfectly fine with that. But, if they are actually supposed to be able to hit crossing ballistic missile targets, then they aren't do so.

Basically, nothing needs to be investigated until you advise that it isn't working as you expected. If that it the case, then I'll provide some saves.

Thanks in advance.


< Message edited by Rory Noonan -- 11/24/2020 3:01:03 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Patriot/David's Sling against Crossing Ballistic Mi... - 11/22/2020 12:58:55 AM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1531
Joined: 3/21/2014
Status: offline
I went ahead and tested it myself.

Both of those missiles have a relatively short range, and both have to go vertical for a while before going horizontal toward the intercept point. The ballistic missile is traveling so fast that the SAMs shoot as soon as it gets into the DLZ, and almost within seconds, the ballistic missile is out of the DLZ. Since all of this occurs in a very short span of time, the SAM loses control, and it goes blind.

The ONLY way that these have a chance is if they are facing the ballistic missile straight on. That way, they don't have to deal with the crossing effect.

I believe that the game works as it is designed. These particular weapons just aren't very good at shooting down ballistic missiles that aren't coming straight toward them.

You can disregard my original post.


(in reply to DWReese)
Post #: 2
RE: Patriot/David's Sling against Crossing Ballistic Mi... - 11/22/2020 7:12:54 PM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1531
Joined: 3/21/2014
Status: offline
I would like you to check on Israel's Patriot and David's Sling SAMs.

Although the patriot has a much shorter range (55 to 85), the Patriot (#642 MM-104E) will fire long before the longer-ranged David's Sling does.

If you look at the Patriot, it has a CRUISE altitude of 100k ft, but it only has a TARGET altitude of 80k ft. I don't know if that is supposed to be like that or not. Perhaps it's significant, and perhaps not.

In any case, the Patriot will fire at the incoming ballistic missiles when they are much higher than 100k ft. In fact, they firing when the altitude is still being listed in km. David's Sling doesn't fire until the target is really close, and by then, it can't keep the target within its window.

My suggestion, since many other ABMs seem to work perfectly, is to review David's Sling and see if you need to make some modification to it so that its window of engagement (DLZ) is broadened. Otherwise, it's like trying to throw a football threw an open window from 60 yards away. Sure, you might be able to do that, but it won't happen consistently.

Thanks for looking into this.

Doug

(in reply to DWReese)
Post #: 3
RE: Patriot/David's Sling against Crossing Ballistic Mi... - 11/23/2020 5:09:11 AM   
Rory Noonan

 

Posts: 2635
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
Hi DWReese,

We need a save to look at this properly.

Please see here for more information:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4739459

and here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4914786

Thanks

_____________________________


(in reply to DWReese)
Post #: 4
RE: Patriot/David's Sling against Crossing Ballistic Mi... - 11/25/2020 1:42:05 AM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1531
Joined: 3/21/2014
Status: offline
Regarding Broken Shield:

With each new update to the game you all have often been updating some of the scenarios. When that occurs, the database when the game was created remains what it was for that scenario. In the case of Broken Shield, it was 482. The most current database, as you know, is 487.

You have two choices:

1.) If you choose to update the database, then David's Sling is much better about targeting. It's not great, but it isn't bad. It still has some issues where it doesn't fire, even though the missiles were GREEN, but it is much better than before. But, when you do update the database, the game player will immediately get some messages at the very beginning of the game about the load outs in the Syrian planes being inaccurate.

2.) If you choose NOT to update the scenario, then you don't get the error message about the planes, but then David's Sling doesn't work nearly as well.

The load outs should probably be fixed for the next release, and everything should work much better.

(in reply to Rory Noonan)
Post #: 5
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Tech Support >> [Save Required] Patriot/David's Sling against Crossing Ballistic Missiles Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.119