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[Logged] Operation Locusta - 11/21/2020 3:46:21 PM   
slimatwar

 

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Two issues in Operation Locusta scenario:
1) It is strange that in Gioia del Colle there's no ferry loadout for Tornadoes, isn't it?
2) Iraqi Mirage F1 EQ is regarded by WRA as 4th generation aircraft.

< Message edited by Rory Noonan -- 11/25/2020 6:53:11 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Operation Locusta - 11/21/2020 3:50:46 PM   
thewood1

 

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Is it an issue with the scenario or the units overall? If its the units overall, should post this in the db issues thread.

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RE: Operation Locusta - 11/21/2020 9:17:31 PM   
slimatwar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Is it an issue with the scenario or the units overall? If its the units overall, should post this in the db issues thread.

Maybe you're right.I've checked it again and the ferry loadout demands BOZ-102 pod which is not available in the magazines.
However I don't understand a 4th gen Mirage F1.

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RE: Operation Locusta - 11/22/2020 10:46:06 PM   
Rory Noonan

 

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Hi slimatwar,

Can you provide a save file showing these issues?

Here's some useful information on tech support posts: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4739459

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RE: Operation Locusta - 11/23/2020 6:14:40 PM   
slimatwar

 

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I know about posting saves but in this case there's no need for save because at the very start of the game I see Tornadoes in Gioia del Colle without ferry loadout.

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RE: Operation Locusta - 11/23/2020 6:30:36 PM   
Roby7979

 

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the scenario will be updated and improved soon


do you have the steam or matrix forum version?

< Message edited by [BSM]Roby7979 -- 11/23/2020 6:39:37 PM >


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RE: Operation Locusta - 11/23/2020 9:39:53 PM   
slimatwar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: [BSM]Roby7979

the scenario will be updated and improved soon


do you have the steam or matrix forum version?


Steam?not at all.

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RE: Operation Locusta - 11/23/2020 11:47:36 PM   
Rory Noonan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slimatwar

I know about posting saves but in this case there's no need for save because at the very start of the game I see Tornadoes in Gioia del Colle without ferry loadout.

So... you're not willing to cooperate with us to get this sorted?

Okay. Let us know if you change your mind and we'll take a look.

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RE: Operation Locusta - 11/24/2020 11:43:33 AM   
slimatwar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rory Noonan


quote:

ORIGINAL: slimatwar

I know about posting saves but in this case there's no need for save because at the very start of the game I see Tornadoes in Gioia del Colle without ferry loadout.

So... you're not willing to cooperate with us to get this sorted?

Okay. Let us know if you change your mind and we'll take a look.

I've no problem providing you with a save but I repeat that anybody may check the issue by just opening the scenario.
Ok here's the save.Could you also check the WRA showing Mirage F1 as 4th generation?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by slimatwar -- 11/24/2020 11:44:57 AM >

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RE: Operation Locusta - 11/25/2020 6:52:54 AM   
Rory Noonan

 

Posts: 2780
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Thanks for that, we'll look at it ASAP.

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RE: Operation Locusta - 11/25/2020 7:23:29 AM   
Rory Noonan

 

Posts: 2780
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From: Brooklyn, NY
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quote:

1)It is strange that in Gioia del Colle there's no ferry loadout for Tornadoes, isn't it?


That's a database issue; I've fixed it and it will be out with the next update.

quote:

2) Iraqi Mirage F1 EQ is regarded by WRA as 4th generation aircraft.


I'm not sure what you mean here. I've checked the WRA and Doctrine windows which is the only place I know of where aircraft generations are mentiond, and can't find any reference to the F1 EQ being a 4th generation aircraft. Apart from the reference here in the UI--in terms of simulation mechanics, Command does not use 'generations' as data points since the definitions are heavily subjective and exceptions abound.

Instead we use agility, which is an arbitrary abstraction of airframe maneuverability, avionics quality and numerous other factors that govern literally how agile an aircraft is. The other qualities that would fit into the 'generations' definitions--quality and capability of sensors, engines, pilot workload, etc are modelled explicitly with their own discrete data points. While agility is still an abstraction, and the values roughly correspond to generations in many cases, they are not the same thing.

If I've missed the point here, a screenshot might help me understand where to look.

------------------------------

On why we need a save file for things like this... This is a community scenario, so there is no internal version for us to look at here (and if there was, how would we know it was the same as your version?), and that means that we would need a large amount of back and forth to get the information we need.

To solve that problem, we have coded the information we need to fix bugs into save files so we don't need to ask you a bunch of questions and take hours/days between responses each time.

It might seem persnickety or just annoying, but we're doing it so we can get issues turned around quickly and focus on the code rather than the forum.

< Message edited by Rory Noonan -- 11/25/2020 7:24:26 AM >


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RE: Operation Locusta - 12/2/2020 12:13:53 PM   
slimatwar

 

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Save attached.
Select the Iraqi Mirage and under the image at the top right you can see: WRA:Aircraft-4th generation Fighter/Attack.
That's what I mean.How could a Mirage F1 be 4th gen?

Attachment (1)

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RE: Operation Locusta - 12/2/2020 4:12:47 PM   
thewood1

 

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After cyphering through 15 minutes of trying to find the reference you are talking about in that scenario, I found the unit you were talking about. Maybe next time post the exact unit name or even the side you are talking about. There are a hundred units airborne and it takes a while to cycle through them.

If you spent a little time looking at the WRA settings, it defines why its listed as gen. 4. Its agility is listed as 4. By definition in the WRA, that puts in that class. An agility of three is on par with Mig 21 and F-4. And that is just for WRA. It doesn't really define it as Gen. 4. All that matters is the agility. That might be something to debate, but the F1 is more likely between 3 and 4. So the devs chose 4.

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Post #: 13
RE: Operation Locusta - 12/3/2020 4:43:06 PM   
slimatwar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

After cyphering through 15 minutes of trying to find the reference you are talking about in that scenario, I found the unit you were talking about. Maybe next time post the exact unit name or even the side you are talking about. There are a hundred units airborne and it takes a while to cycle through them.


I saved the game when the screen was centered on the Mirage so I thought that when you open the file the screen view would be the same.However I had mentioned it's an Iraqi aircraft.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1
If you spent a little time looking at the WRA settings, it defines why its listed as gen. 4. Its agility is listed as 4. By definition in the WRA, that puts in that class. An agility of three is on par with Mig 21 and F-4. And that is just for WRA. It doesn't really define it as Gen. 4. All that matters is the agility. That might be something to debate, but the F1 is more likely between 3 and 4. So the devs chose 4.

Thanks for the clarification.

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RE: Operation Locusta - 12/3/2020 4:51:41 PM   
thewood1

 

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Joined: 11/27/2005
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Yeah, but the F1 is under a bunch of other units and is almost impossible to see until you hover directly over and zoomed way in. Its a lot easier if you give actual unit name you are asking about.

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Post #: 15
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