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Occupy Event oddity... - 11/16/2020 1:39:04 AM   
76mm


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OK, another question for the Event Engine gurus. I have an event in my scenario triggered by a Force 1 unit approaching within 1 hex of a Force 2 unit. Generally works fine. For units on the coast, I noticed that generally neither adjacent ships nor embarked units trigger the event. No problem.

The odd thing is that when one particular Force 2 unit on the coast is approached by ship or embarked units, the event is triggered without any disembarkation. I've tested it several times with the same result...

The events are exactly the same...the only difference (that I can see anyway) is that this particular Force 2 unit is in a city (dense urban) hex. There is also a port, but the event is not triggered for other units in port towns (not cities) until/unless a unit disembarks adjacent to them. I can't understand why (or even if) that would make a difference...anyone have any ideas?

[EDIT] I just noticed one other difference, but have not idea what it means, or if it is relevant: if you mouse over the deep water hexes next to all of the port towns where the event is NOT triggered, there is "SP: 28%" at the top of the tool tip. In the deep water hexes near the city where the event IS triggered, this "SP: 28%" is missing. Anyone know what it means, or if that could be the cause of this issue?

< Message edited by 76mm -- 11/16/2020 1:47:19 AM >
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RE: Occupy Event oddity... - 11/16/2020 8:40:03 AM   
golden delicious


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Just guessing, but it might be an adjacent-hex conversion thing. So the unit in the land autoconverts the adjacent deep water hexes which otherwise would be controlled by force 1 (normally this ownership isn't visible and doesn't do anything else).

Keeping up with this notion of present-but-not-visible terrain effects, you could experiment with seeding any coastal deep water hexes with urban terrain before covering over with deep water. The urban hex should prevent the automatic conversion effect, and if it's still present in the hex after adding the water this should fix the problem.

A lot of ifs here... but it's the only way this makes sense to me.

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RE: Occupy Event oddity... - 11/16/2020 2:01:34 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
Just guessing, but it might be an adjacent-hex conversion thing. So the unit in the land autoconverts the adjacent deep water hexes which otherwise would be controlled by force 1 (normally this ownership isn't visible and doesn't do anything else).

Keeping up with this notion of present-but-not-visible terrain effects, you could experiment with seeding any coastal deep water hexes with urban terrain before covering over with deep water. The urban hex should prevent the automatic conversion effect, and if it's still present in the hex after adding the water this should fix the problem.

A lot of ifs here... but it's the only way this makes sense to me.

Sorry, not sure that I follow...AFAIK if there is other terrain under water terrain, it will be indicated when you mouse over the water hex. In this case, there is no "non-water" terrain under any of the water hexes, whether the event is triggered or not. While you might be right that putting land under the water might trigger the occupation trigger in water hexes, I'm actually trying to achieve the opposite.

Actually I don't really care which way it works--occupation triggered by adjacent water hexes or not--but I'd like for it to be consistent, so that it worked the same way for all water hexes, but right now it's not.

Also, AFAIK the "SP: 28%" I mentioned before refers to supply in the hex, but I don't see why that would matter or how it is calculated, because the number does not seem to bear any relationship to distance from a supply depot, etc.

(in reply to golden delicious)
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RE: Occupy Event oddity... - 11/16/2020 2:24:41 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Sorry, not sure that I follow...AFAIK if there is other terrain under water terrain, it will be indicated when you mouse over the water hex. In this case, there is no "non-water" terrain under any of the water hexes, whether the event is triggered or not. While you might be right that putting land under the water might trigger the occupation trigger in water hexes, I'm actually trying to achieve the opposite.


There's always land under the water hex. When you open a new scenario, it's all "Open", and you drop "deep water" on top of that.


quote:

Actually I don't really care which way it works--occupation triggered by adjacent water hexes or not--but I'd like for it to be consistent, so that it worked the same way for all water hexes, but right now it's not.


To be clear, the "Force x Occupies" event only triggers when a hex's ownership is converted; in this case when it's converted from Force 2 to Force 1. By default when you create a scenario, all hexes are owned by Force 1, including Deep Water hexes, and so this effect can't trigger: the unit moves into the hex "occupying" it in a sense but not changing the hex ownership and not triggering the "Force x Occupies" event.

So the only way that moving into a deep water hex can trigger an "Force 1 Occupies" event is if the hex is first converted to Force 2, either by the designer in the editor, a Force 2 unit moving into the hex, an event or- as I think is the case here- through the adjacent hex ownership effect.

To negate this effect in your scenario, I'm suggesting you experiment with putting an urban hex "underneath" the deep water hex, as this in theory would negate the adjacent hex ownership effect and keep the hex in Force 1's hands. Of course if Force 2 moves its own naval units into the hex there's nothing I can do.

Or you could make the offending hexes shallow water or "non-playable".

quote:

Also, AFAIK the "SP: 28%" I mentioned before refers to supply in the hex, but I don't see why that would matter or how it is calculated, because the number does not seem to bear any relationship to distance from a supply depot, etc.


Ah! If this means supply level, it supports my theory, as only friendly-controlled hexes will have a supply level. All deep water hexes are always fully supplied (you can surround a deep water hex with enemy units- it will still get full supply) so this explains why the figure is so high.

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RE: Occupy Event oddity... - 11/16/2020 7:20:41 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
So the only way that moving into a deep water hex can trigger an "Force 1 Occupies" event is if the hex is first converted to Force 2, either by the designer in the editor, a Force 2 unit moving into the hex, an event or- as I think is the case here- through the adjacent hex ownership effect.

OK, so I fixed it--this was the problem. Although possession flags are not shown on water hexes, it does not mean that water hexes do not have possession flags. When I toggled the invisible possession flag in the deep water back to Force 1--so that the occupy event would not be triggered, it began to work only when the unit disembarked onto land, as I wanted.

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RE: Occupy Event oddity... - 11/17/2020 6:26:05 AM   
cathar1244

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
So the only way that moving into a deep water hex can trigger an "Force 1 Occupies" event is if the hex is first converted to Force 2, either by the designer in the editor, a Force 2 unit moving into the hex, an event or- as I think is the case here- through the adjacent hex ownership effect.

OK, so I fixed it--this was the problem. Although possession flags are not shown on water hexes, it does not mean that water hexes do not have possession flags. When I toggled the invisible possession flag in the deep water back to Force 1--so that the occupy event would not be triggered, it began to work only when the unit disembarked onto land, as I wanted.


Oh. Kinda ugly issue to detect. Good work.

Cheers

(in reply to 76mm)
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RE: Occupy Event oddity... - 11/17/2020 9:56:58 AM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

Oh. Kinda ugly issue to detect. Good work.



Once you realise that TOAW still treats deep water hexes half as land hexes you can have all sorts of fun.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

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Post #: 7
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