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Precipitation and Mud - 11/14/2020 4:27:24 PM   
76mm


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In my quest to understand TOAW scenario design, I've run into the next mystery: precipitation and mud...

I'm using the "northern" climate zone, with "temperate" temperatures and "occasional" precipitation. My understanding is that "occasional" precipitation should equate to fairly arid conditions, because the only lower precipitation level is "no precipitation". Given these parameters, I would not expect to see very much mud in June. However, during the many times I've test run the scenario, there are huge amounts of mud every time, even after I changed the mud scalar to 250 (which I think should make it dry more quickly??).

The last time I made a point of reviewing weather reports every turn. Of the first ten turns, seven featured rain, from "occasional" to "heavy". Note that this is under conditions of "occasional" precipitation--not "moderate" or "heavy".

By the end, here were the mud results:



This level of mud is pretty typical of what I've seen during test runs, and to me it is excessive given the supposedly arid conditions, and the increased mud scalar.

How can I get less rain (without mandating "no precipitation" in the environment editor) and less mud?

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< Message edited by 76mm -- 11/14/2020 4:29:36 PM >
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RE: Precipitation and Mud - 11/14/2020 6:07:10 PM   
76mm


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Just repeated this experiment--this time there was some kind of precipitation 9 of the 10 first turns (again, with a setting of "occasional" precipitation). Resulting mud was roughly the same as last time. The resulting hit on mobility is huge. Am I the only person that thinks this is an issue?

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RE: Precipitation and Mud - 11/14/2020 6:52:00 PM   
76mm


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Just repeated this with "no precipitation"--actually there was precipitation on five of the first ten turns. Something does not seem right with the precipitation model...

Also, currently mud is being generated as soon as there is "occasional" precipitation during even one turn. I don't think this is how it should be--I wouldn't think that mud should start forming until there had been "moderate" rain for at least two turns. I don't think that "light rain" for even ten turns in a row should create mud...

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RE: Precipitation and Mud - 11/14/2020 7:24:06 PM   
76mm


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OK, last time I'll post results, but just tried another ten turns on a setting of "no precipitation"--in fact eight of the ten had some level of precipitation...

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RE: Precipitation and Mud - 11/14/2020 7:37:49 PM   
Raindem

 

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Are there any temperature changes caused by events? Those will cause increased precipitation.

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RE: Precipitation and Mud - 11/14/2020 7:50:27 PM   
76mm


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There are no events relating to temperature changes, storms, etc.

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RE: Precipitation and Mud - 11/14/2020 9:21:06 PM   
Zovs


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I have also notice this bug in my small Normandy scenario I am testing. I have had to tweak the mud scalar and precipitation and I am also seeing excessive mud.

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RE: Precipitation and Mud - 11/15/2020 12:44:05 AM   
sPzAbt653


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Is everybody using the New Mud Rules? I have limited experience but found it easier to NOT use them.

There is also a Temperature setting to be fiddled with.

But I agree, setting a scenario to No Precipitation would maybe kind of mean NO Precipitation, lol.

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RE: Precipitation and Mud - 11/15/2020 12:48:19 AM   
Zovs


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Yes I have been using the new mud rules, thinking they would be an improvement, but it seems bugged.

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WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
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DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

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RE: Precipitation and Mud - 11/15/2020 1:04:17 AM   
76mm


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Yes, I have also been using the new mud rules. My mistake.

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RE: Precipitation and Mud - 11/15/2020 1:54:35 PM   
Lobster


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I used a 700x700 map at 2.5km per hex. With the new mud rules and no precipitation I could find no mud on the map. With the new mud rules off there was some mud but no more than one tile big and fairly spaced out. This was regardless of zone and temperature. I suppose if you had the time you could go through all the map scales and see what happens.



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RE: Precipitation and Mud - 11/15/2020 2:48:10 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
I used a 700x700 map at 2.5km per hex. With the new mud rules and no precipitation I could find no mud on the map.

I am also using a roughly 300x300 map with 2.5 km hexes and no precipitation. There is no mud at the beginning of Turn 1 (unless there is precipitation), but it appears with the first precipitation, even the lightest precipitation, and then multiplies from there.

Have you run the first ten turns of your scenario to see how much precipitation/mud you get?

[EDIT]That said, with "no precipitation" mud is not too bad. Any other precipitation setting, and it gets a bit out of hand.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 11/15/2020 3:12:44 PM >

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RE: Precipitation and Mud - 11/15/2020 2:53:43 PM   
golden delicious


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I vaguely recall from the old TDG days that one wants "No precipitation" unless you want mud to be a major factor.

Also, I believe rain won't fall on "arid" hexes- actually as far as I'm aware that's the sole purpose of this terrain.

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RE: Precipitation and Mud - 11/15/2020 4:00:52 PM   
sPzAbt653


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New Mud Rules are good for something, but all these years later I can't remember specifics. Tests were done showing the effects [might have been on the development forum only], but to me it is like New Supply and New Turn - something else to tinker with if you need more specific/different results, otherwise leave them off.

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RE: Precipitation and Mud - 11/15/2020 4:44:58 PM   
Lobster


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I've always considered mud to be way over done in this game. And the way it's scattered all over the place is not only an annoyance, it's not even correct.

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