Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Thinking Outside the Box

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> WarPlan >> RE: Thinking Outside the Box Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/14/2020 8:01:57 PM   
michaelCLARADY

 

Posts: 60
Joined: 12/2/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

Ok so let's get some things down here.

#1 What year is it?
#2 What is the status of the game? Who is conquered? What does the Axis control, etc.


FDR would approve.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 31
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/14/2020 8:22:13 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 2091
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

Denmark and Norway - If the Allies want to raid the Baltic use air units to sink their ships. The UK does have an advantage in naval groups to the Allies but you sink 2-3 of them it becomes pretty even. Assuming the Axis took out Norway the Allies have to invade Norway, then Denmark, then get to the Baltic. Now if the Allies are all playing around in the Baltics in 1940 and you trap their fleet there the Italians have a free hand in the Med. WP allows more flexibility but often there is a cost involved and a counter strategy. Some things clearly are a no brainer advantage in the game and adjusted or removed like Greece to get Yugoslavia or the fact I forgot to give Ireland units. But in this case there is a cost for the Allies and you can always close the lane.


Alvaro, You can't use air units to sink their ships because the Allies will position their ships out of range near Lulea. This essentially means no Swedish iron for Germany until after the fall of France. Even later if the UK performs the same trick with a portion of its fleet. But it is primarily the French doing this that bothers me. By removing their landing craft you delay them doing this until early 40, so that is something. Of course, thye don't care about the Italians, becuase the French fleet will disappear before the Italians arrive anyway.

quote:

As for the US invasion - The best solution would be calling the national guard up when the Axis ships are West of St.Johns before they are in the war (45,43). Which I also do for the UK with the HG activation. This is making the assumption the UK was conquered by early 1941 and their fleet is vaporized. But if you are taking about the Germans sailing a tiny fleet with some divisions you didn't notice on the map during your turn then that's on you.

I'll add the NG reserves because it makes sense and I did it for the UK. Just in the spirit it cheeziness because I don't want a game ruined because someone's wife yelled at their husband and they hit end of turn replying "yes dear, right away dear" and forgot to check the East Coast for a Nazi invasion sneak fleet they could have easily prevented.


I am not sure how the UK fleet can stop a US invasion. Lets say the Germans capture France and occupy the French ports. They then sail a large force west from the Western French Ports moving 48 hexes into the middle of the Atlantic (hex row 96 or so). the RN can give chase, but unless they have their navy patrolling the middle of the Atlantic they won't have anything within the required 24 hexes able to attack. Next Turn the Germans move another 48 hexes west. Again the UK fleet gives chase but can't attack. Repeat for the next couple turns until the German fleet reaches the American coast and invades. I have not seen this done, but not sure why it can't be done.


< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 10/14/2020 8:23:49 PM >

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 32
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/14/2020 8:31:28 PM   
MorningDew

 

Posts: 978
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline
Good point, players are using US assets to block invasions starting in 1939.

They are loading up to be ready to unload fast in late 1941 ahead of the US entry.

_____________________________

(formerly user AndrewKurtz)

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 33
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/14/2020 9:55:05 PM   
ComadrejaKorp

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 5/31/2020
Status: offline
To solve early USA invasion problem (something I have never seen) you could disconnect the Dow option against them, until 1943 for example. Just like the UK cannot dow Italy in 1939.
And to solve the problem of misuse of its fleet before entering the war, the solution would be to leave it in the production queue also until December 1941 (it remains to be seen with what advances should be delivered)
I think they are effective solutions.

Note: that I explained the movement of the US fleet out of the box, it does not mean that I have used it, nor have I seen it done, even I am able to see that it is a clearly illegal movement.

(in reply to MorningDew)
Post #: 34
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/14/2020 10:32:35 PM   
ComadrejaKorp

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 5/31/2020
Status: offline
I am thinking that their army and aviation should also be left in the queue because if they embark they can be used for the same purpose. The problem would be that these units would not update their technology, but I think it is fair to have them on land for a while, historically they did not arrive in Europe in January. Maybe it is also good not to allow updating their navy either and for the player to decide whether to send it without updating or waiting.

(in reply to ComadrejaKorp)
Post #: 35
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/14/2020 10:36:45 PM   
MagicMissile


Posts: 747
Joined: 10/11/2014
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline
In all my games both I and the players Ive played with have been fairly conventional so I havent seen anything too sneaky. Things that comes to mind is
One of the first games vs Tyrone. He invaded Denmark my garrison wasnt enough and he removed the minefield and invaded northern Germany on the Baltic side.

Invading Archangelsk has happened in a couple of games maybe a bit borderline gamey but it is easy to garrison so maybe not.

I paradropped a town in northern Italy in 43 and made Italy surrender but people are so much better at garrisons nowadays.

Moving the US forces I have realised it can be done but I have never considered doing so, feels so wrong.

/MM


(in reply to ComadrejaKorp)
Post #: 36
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/14/2020 11:13:10 PM   
ComadrejaKorp

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 5/31/2020
Status: offline
Hi Magic, I have read some aar of yours, great!
Can I ask you about your opinion about the other topics that the creator of the thread explains in the first post?
I only plead guilty to the first three, and invading archangelsk if we add it to the list!

(in reply to MagicMissile)
Post #: 37
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/14/2020 11:49:50 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 6788
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MorningDew

#1 - 1941, before US entry
#2 - the US is moving units into position to invade or land in the UK before they enter the war. Some people are moving US fleets to block access to invasion hexes to the Axis.

Question was is this OK or gamey.

Comment was made that the only two options to stop this are:

1. Freeze US troops until at war (like most neutral countries already are) - best solution if this is considered an issue

2. Have no US units until they are at war - concern then is that Axis will invade a US with no units

So the question/problem is:

1. Do you think the US should be allowed to move units like this before they are at war?

2. If you do not think they should be allowed to do this, how do you stop it with creating another issue

Does that help?





That is an issue that needs to be addressed. I have to think about it. Probably the solution is not allowing embarkation or naval movement when NEUTRAL.

< Message edited by AlvaroSousa -- 10/14/2020 11:56:41 PM >


_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to MorningDew)
Post #: 38
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/15/2020 2:15:01 AM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 6788
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline
Realize that I might debate with people on issues but it doesn't mean I appreciate all the input everyone is giving. Every game like this has problems in which some smart player finds a work around.

So as for Germany invading the USA I do have an idea. It is something I have been rolling around in my head from WarPlan Pacific that I have been considering adding it to WarPlan Europe.

In WarPlan Pacific Alpha we are currently testing a new rule. It goes like this.

Any single island port hex can be supply blockaded by 1 naval group.
Any land based port hex can be supply blockaded by 3 naval groups.

If we need additional conditions on this I will know in beta.

Basically this means ports can be denied being a supply source if the enemy fleet is next to it.

We aren't sure how it will play out and might need modification. I was thinking of porting this back to Europe.

This would solve the invasion of the USA problem accurately as now you literally need to rule the seas and the air. If the Axis land the US and UK navy just block the ports and crush the Axis navy and that is that.

Or maybe the rule will apply to distance ports. Not sure yet

I was also considering a

Some rules I can add to WarPlan Europe.. Some I can't because they would mess up everyone due to version changes.


In WarPlan Europe





_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 39
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/15/2020 1:12:49 PM   
MorningDew

 

Posts: 978
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline
Alvaro - I think everyone is here because of the beauty and potential of the game you have created. I personally appreciate your willingness to listen and adjust as needed, but to push back to stay true to YOUR design.

Smart people always figure out how to leverage the rules given them - it is an iterative process to zero in on the right solution and hard to figure out what a creative mind will do ahead of time.


Regarding the solution above - out of curiosity - what is the definition of a naval group?

< Message edited by MorningDew -- 10/15/2020 1:13:43 PM >


_____________________________

(formerly user AndrewKurtz)

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 40
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/15/2020 1:19:06 PM   
MorningDew

 

Posts: 978
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline
Regarding using air to damage the Allied fleets in the Baltic, as noted above, they get positioned beyond air range, and they can pass by Copenhagen/Oslo with impunity.

The only real option to damage them that I see is to retake the minefields and then they are locked in the Baltic.

_____________________________

(formerly user AndrewKurtz)

(in reply to MorningDew)
Post #: 41
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/15/2020 1:21:38 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 6788
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MorningDew

Alvaro - I think everyone is here because of the beauty and potential of the game you have created. I personally appreciate your willingness to listen and adjust as needed, but to push back to stay true to YOUR design.

Smart people always figure out how to leverage the rules given them - it is an iterative process to zero in on the right solution and hard to figure out what a creative mind will do ahead of time.


Regarding the solution above - out of curiosity - what is the definition of a naval group?


1 naval unit. It has always been called a naval group. Some players refer to it as a ship.

_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to MorningDew)
Post #: 42
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/15/2020 2:00:08 PM   
MagicMissile


Posts: 747
Joined: 10/11/2014
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline
Thanks glad you like the AARs. Everyone is so lazy there are none going on now so might have to do something about that .

1) It is obviously unrealistic. I dont even know what hexes you need to take to disable the minefield. Seems it will be at least partly taken care of now with the removal on the allied landing ships of course landing ships can be built and ready for the winter/spring/summer 39/40. I guess Germany need to put one more unit in garrison to shut it down you can do it Germany have enough units for France I would say. Not sure if it makes any difference but I always use the low xp German corps in the northern port of Denmark so will the invading units have enough MP to achieve their objective if there is a corps there and not a division?

2) Paratrooper are a one trick pony, Now we all know about it it is time to garrison all Italian cities I think you have the units to do it without a problem. And the allies waste a lot of resources to build them. With that said I think to make Italy surrender the units taking the objective should be in supply and I also think the Axis should get one turn to try and recapture and that goes for the allies as well. One turn to try and recapture Paris for example.

3) Very nice idea but a bit silly of course, I never thought of it. I think the German losses in Poland are fairly small as is so not sure how much difference it makes probably not very much so I am kind of ok with it but would be better if maybe all homecities are supply sources or something.

/MM


(in reply to ComadrejaKorp)
Post #: 43
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/15/2020 2:03:10 PM   
MorningDew

 

Posts: 978
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa
1 naval unit. It has always been called a naval group. Some players refer to it as a ship.


Cool - wasn't sure if it meant a fleet. Makes sense. Curious to see how that works.


_____________________________

(formerly user AndrewKurtz)

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 44
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/15/2020 3:48:44 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 6788
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline
The Baltic thing is solved by adding a couple minefields that will make it more difficult to pull off even in 1940. It still can be done but will require quite a bit of effort

_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to MorningDew)
Post #: 45
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/15/2020 8:07:41 PM   
ComadrejaKorp

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 5/31/2020
Status: offline
Thanks for your answers, it's good to know your opinion!

(in reply to MagicMissile)
Post #: 46
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/15/2020 8:56:23 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 6788
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline
I doubled the USA, UK, and USSR oil use for armor and mech. I am going to play a solo game vs a high level A.I. tonight trying the all armor strategy. I will see how that impacts oil.

I did some research today on tank formations. Generally each country's tanks used about the same amount of fuel for their medium tanks it would be reasonable to assume when the Allies had 2x the number of tanks the Germans had + truck transport it would drastically increase the fuel use of such a unit.

So I am hoping this works out well in which you can't go all armor as it would really kill you. I calculated if you attack 3x in a turn with armor that will go from 6 to 12 oil per tank.

If you land with 9 armor that's 100+ oil per turn just on armor assuming 3 attacks per turn.

It will also affect supply.

Infantry corps (30) has a 36 supply
Armored corps will have a 54 supply requirement with 4 oil use. It will add to supply struggles in France.

_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to ComadrejaKorp)
Post #: 47
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/15/2020 9:48:42 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7503
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
Don't mess with Soviet oil requirements, imo. They weren't nearly so motorized as the WA nor were their logistical tail so involved. Their standard of motorization wasn't even as high as the Germans until late in the war. The Soviets are fine as is, it is the Western Allies who are the issue here.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 48
RE: Thinking Outside the Box - 10/16/2020 12:17:52 AM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 6788
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline
I'm just self testing. This isn't definite.

_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 49
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> WarPlan >> RE: Thinking Outside the Box Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.227