Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII: World at War >> RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 10/6/2020 6:34:00 PM   
Taifun


Posts: 759
Joined: 12/28/2006
From: Spain
Status: offline

quote:

I think Cpuncher's suggestion of boosting supply to 7 points rather than 8 points and requiring the parent HQ to have 2 supply in order to boost another HQ is a good compromise.
Lone


I agree with them.
Concerning the scorched earth rules this was discussed earlier:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4858305

The rules were updated and from my experience the towns and cities in the USSR are now captured level 3-4 90% and level 5 10% on the time.


_____________________________

La clé est l'état d'esprit

(in reply to LoneRunner)
Post #: 31
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 10/7/2020 9:26:29 AM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4518
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpuncher

Thanks Bill, for the answer.

What would be the range/odds of the randomization? So in USSR, for a level 10 city captured with a 60% (or is it 80%?) scorched earth, is there still a decent chance for it to be level 6, or even higher?


A city or capital will lose 60-80% of its strength, so it should ordinarily take a turn or two to reach 6 after capture.

Towns will lose 30-70% so it is more possible for them to be in reasonable strength quickly, although as their maximum strength is 8 at best they should be at strength 5 when captured, but generally they will be at lower strength than that.

However, the settings used to be more generous as the above were only implemented in January this year, so in the unlikely event that your game was started before then then different and less punishing settings would apply.



_____________________________

Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FurySoftware

We're also on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/FurySoftware/

(in reply to Cpuncher)
Post #: 32
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 10/7/2020 1:34:06 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 4904
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpuncher

Could I ask Hubert to agree to a slight tuning? Like giving Boosted HQs to only distribute 7, or require it to receive 2 from the boosting HQ to be boosted? I think 7 is reasonably workable for the Axis in NA and Russia. Number of HQs in NA or Russia is never a problem for the Axis. Also reducing HQ strength is often very costly and only impacts the Axis turn, and not possible in Russia. In NA the Allies are not likely to have lots of Tac Bombers, so at most you can reduce a couple strength of his HQ, which he will reinforce to full 10 on his turn. Thus on your turn, when things matter more, Axis units are back to ample supply again even though you spent quite a lot of your bombers on previous turn. You likely have to reinforce your Bombers and Fighters before you can attack his HQ again. Then weather in NA kicks in often enough. So basically, in Russia no one would be able to reduce Axis HQ strength, while in NA, no one could really do it either, unless the Allies invest 3 Tac Bombers and 3 Fighter there, if the Axis has 1 or 2 German Fighters commanded by a German HQ there.

I think it's better to make the game so when the Afrika Korps go to NA it's 50-50 for either side, and if they don't, Allies would win NA easily. Right now if the Afrika Korps or similar German forces are committed I think it's at least 80% for them to win NA, between 2 equally good players.

Also I wonder what the odds are for Scorched Earth not happening when you capture a town. I think my last game the Axis captured way too many towns in Russia "intact". Also is there a difference whether battles happened in the town before the capture, vs it was undefended? I thought so but I don't know the exact difference in odds.


Thanks for the feedback and suggestion here and for now I can say we are definitely reviewing and thinking about it. We want to take a little bit of time to try and ensure we don't fix one thing just to introduce more problems somewhere else in the game. Tends to happen and even though it is sometimes impossible to know until we have everyone playing the game with any new changes, we'd still like to avoid it if at all possible.

Going to 7 is a possibility but we'd have to make sure that this would indeed work in the USSR. Only because at one time it was 10 and dropping it to 8 raised some flags by those that argued it made things much more challenging.

We are looking at a few other options as well and will try and do our best to see what works and what doesn't for any possible change in the next update.

_____________________________


(in reply to Cpuncher)
Post #: 33
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 10/7/2020 1:35:26 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 4904
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline
quote:


Thank you for your answer Hubert. I can see your point.

I appreciate you explaining your position and being willing to work with gamers. I'm new to Slitherine and I've never seen this level of cooperation with a publisher. So refreshing. I'm impressed. Is this level of support typical for Slitherine games?

Lone


I can't speak for other developers but thank you and much appreciated


_____________________________


(in reply to LoneRunner)
Post #: 34
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 10/7/2020 1:39:30 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 4904
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoneRunner

I think the original intent of boosted HQs was to extend supply range not to boost supply points. Extending the supply range by 8 hexes is a huge benefit. Adding extra supply points onto the boost has changed the game where super panzer units can kill units 10 hexes away from the German lines and still be in 5+ supply. Is that really where we want to go?

Historically, German armies were restricted by supply limitations in both Russia and North Africa. Perhaps more by supply problems than by the Russian and British forces. But, yes, sticking strictly to history could reduce the excitement and enjoyment of the game.

I can understand the need to play balance Germany's options in NA and Russia. The game is more fun if the Axis and Allies have lots of open options. I think Cpuncher's suggestion of boosting supply to 7 points rather than 8 points and requiring the parent HQ to have 2 supply in order to boost another HQ is a good compromise.
Lone


The supply boosting mechanism has been in the game for quite some time now, going back to the older SC2 titles, but as time moves on, maps change, tactics change, players find new ways to play, exploits, we adapt and modify on our end as needed.

As mentioned, 7 might work or it could be too low for the Axis deep in the USSR when they are facing off against supply level 10 home USSR units. 2 might work but it too might be too low if we consider the original concerns of the Strategic Bomber strategy in North Africa.

We'll have to study this a bit on our end before we rush to any new conclusions.

_____________________________


(in reply to LoneRunner)
Post #: 35
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 10/7/2020 4:02:56 PM   
EarlyDoors


Posts: 438
Joined: 12/16/2018
From: uk
Status: online
Thanks for the interaction Hubert

I never realised that HQ boosting was anymore than an HQ taking in supply from another HQ and outputting it according to standard rules -
quote:

if the local supply is 0, he distributes 3, 1 or 2=>5, 3 or 4=>6, 5=>8, 6 and above=>10


I'm sure this would work for the Axis (maybe they would need to protect resources more, for instance i never see Axis opponents use resource AA on campaign, probably because they have air superiority).

FWIW, moving UK strategic bomber to cairo involves foregoing bombing campaign in Europe until late 42.

I only ever play Allies and my PBEM++ record is 3-10 which i suspect is a fair representation of likelihood of Allied success.
Atm, opponents, forego the 3 army drive on USSR in favour of boosted HQ drives on Cairo, Moscow and Caucasus, and are unstoppable. (The Russian winter does not effect frontline troops).

I guess the final thing I'd like to say is the default balance of the game should be as IRL where the Axis struggled for supply in NA and USSR, which is not how it feels now.

(in reply to Hubert Cater)
Post #: 36
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 10/8/2020 3:09:44 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 4904
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline
Thanks EarlyDoors, and as game balance is a tricky one to get just right, sometimes the only way to get a better picture is to have a mirrored game against your opponents, e.g. if you lose as Allies and also as Axis it tells us one thing, if you lose as Allies and win as Axis it tells us something else and so on.

Then you need dozens of games this as well to be able to throw out the extreme cases on either end of the win/loss columns.

I just suggest this as from what I understand right now the game is fairly close to balanced based on competitive results and other reports we've seen so I still fall back on we have to be careful of every change we make going forward.



_____________________________


(in reply to EarlyDoors)
Post #: 37
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 10/10/2020 8:38:40 AM   
EarlyDoors


Posts: 438
Joined: 12/16/2018
From: uk
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

a boosted HQ at full strength can provide 8 supply, however if it is reduced to 5 strength then that is halved and subsequently drops to 4 supply and so on.



Is there any effect from the strength of a source HQ?
For example, assuming a full strength boosted HQ, would its supply output be the same from
~ a strength 10 source HQ sitting on a level 5 resource
as
~ a strength 1 source HQ sitting on a level 1 resource

?

if so, this seems unrealisitic


< Message edited by EarlyDoors -- 10/10/2020 8:39:18 AM >

(in reply to Hubert Cater)
Post #: 38
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 10/10/2020 5:23:13 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 4904
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline
At the moment it doesn't take into account the strength of the source HQ when considering boosting. It's definitely not wrong to think that is unrealistic, I do see the point there, I guess it just comes down to how many more rules do we want to consider.

It's potentially a tricky one because a boosted HQ goes to 5 supply in order receive any real benefit of boosted supply. Anything less is in most cases not really beneficial, e.g. no real point, and anything more is too much.

So a sliding scale of boost amount based on the strength of a source HQ is not likely to be that helpful and the downside is it leads to additional complexity for players to consider. The other option is to maybe think just boost or no boost, on or off, depending on the source HQ strength. That might be more practical but still another rule to keep track of, either way, something to think about on our end.

That being said, we are still thinking about things overall in reference to this thread and running some tests as we speak.



_____________________________


(in reply to EarlyDoors)
Post #: 39
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 10/12/2020 9:12:09 AM   
EarlyDoors


Posts: 438
Joined: 12/16/2018
From: uk
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoneRunner

However allowing a boosted HQ to distribute more supply than the booster HQ is illogical.

The rule should be changed such that the supply distributed by a boosted HQ can not exceed the supply distributed by the booster HQ.



I have a tendency to place an HQ on a resource as I feel it distributes maximum supply from there. I now see that many Axis players push 2 linked HQs out into wilderness where a source HQ maybe generates 0(3) and a boosted HQ generates 8!!

I agree with Lone Runner that by capping the boosted HQ at a maximum of the source would encourage more realistic supply chains and would extend the range of the source HQ by 4 hexes, which I assume was the designers original intention.

(in reply to LoneRunner)
Post #: 40
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 10/12/2020 7:25:35 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 4904
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline
Having the source HQ at 0 supply wouldn't work, the source HQ needs to have at least supply >= 1. At least right now with the current rules etc.



_____________________________


(in reply to EarlyDoors)
Post #: 41
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/10/2020 10:04:55 AM   
EarlyDoors


Posts: 438
Joined: 12/16/2018
From: uk
Status: online
With my new found knowledge that a full-strength HQ is boosted to supply 8 by another hq that is 4 supply hexes away, I had been pulling my hair out at a later scenario in the same game

Again, I am Allies and I'm trying to re-take Cairo

Its March 1944 and the German HQ at Suez must be outputting 8

https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/march-44-units.jpg

I can see there is another HQ at Jerusalem, 5 hexes away by road

I have been pounding all the resources by air

https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/march-44-resources.jpg

including hitting the boosted HQ with 4 carriers for best part of a year ...its pretty fruitless

So, what will be the supply level of the Turkish Tanks and Cairo Infantry next turn?

https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/march-44-turkey-tanks.jpg

https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/march-44-cairo-infantry.jpg

By my calculation, the HQ at Suez is beyond the range to be boosted and at best - can put out 5

< Message edited by EarlyDoors -- 11/10/2020 10:05:28 AM >

(in reply to Taifun)
Post #: 42
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/10/2020 10:10:04 AM   
EarlyDoors


Posts: 438
Joined: 12/16/2018
From: uk
Status: online
However, next turn it is still putting out 8

https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/april-44-turkey-tanks-7.jpg

https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/april-44-cairo-infantry-6.jpg

The only thing I can think of is that the Suez HQ is boosted by the Jerusalem HQ because it is 4 hexes away if you include the Sea hex

Is this correct? And is this intended ?

(in reply to EarlyDoors)
Post #: 43
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/10/2020 10:15:01 AM   
Marcinos1985

 

Posts: 383
Joined: 1/22/2020
Status: offline
What is supply level of Suez?

_____________________________


(in reply to EarlyDoors)
Post #: 44
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/10/2020 10:30:33 AM   
EarlyDoors


Posts: 438
Joined: 12/16/2018
From: uk
Status: online
quote:

https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/march-44-resources.jpg


https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/march-44-resources.jpg

Suez is zero at end of my turn - it will tick over to 1

I thought for a while that maybe because of the geography the port of Suez did not get blockaded by my adjacent cruiser, so I levelled that as well...to no avail

The only thing I can think is that the 4 hex rule includes sea tiles

< Message edited by EarlyDoors -- 11/10/2020 10:31:06 AM >

(in reply to Marcinos1985)
Post #: 45
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/11/2020 12:20:45 AM   
LoneRunner

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/16/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EarlyDoors

With my new found knowledge that a full-strength HQ is boosted to supply 8 by another hq that is 4 supply hexes away, I had been pulling my hair out at a later scenario in the same game

Again, I am Allies and I'm trying to re-take Cairo

Its March 1944 and the German HQ at Suez must be outputting 8

https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/march-44-units.jpg

I can see there is another HQ at Jerusalem, 5 hexes away by road

I have been pounding all the resources by air

https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/march-44-resources.jpg

including hitting the boosted HQ with 4 carriers for best part of a year ...its pretty fruitless

So, what will be the supply level of the Turkish Tanks and Cairo Infantry next turn?

https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/march-44-turkey-tanks.jpg

https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/march-44-cairo-infantry.jpg

By my calculation, the HQ at Suez is beyond the range to be boosted and at best - can put out 5


Hey Early,
I agree, the supply rules seem way overcomplicated. I noticed that the game date on your screenshot is March 44. That late in the game the German player probably maxed research in logistics. Here's the manual on the supply effect of logistics:

Researching Logistics raises the Minimum Supply Value for HQs. At level 1,
the Minimum Supply Value is 1, and this will rise by 1 for every subsequent
level attained.
So if level 5 Logistics has been attained, then a HQ with a strength value
of 1-4 will have a minimum supply value of 5 even if it has no access to a
supply source.
It is true that this means that you will only really see any benefit if a high
level of Logistics is researched, but this may be of use in a critical situation.


So, my guess is that with level 5 research in logistics, the HQ in Cairo would have a supply value of 5 even though Cairo is only supply level 1. And according to the manual an HQ with supply value of 5 has a supply distribution value of 8. Whew, I can see the value of researching logistics.

Also, you indicated that the boosted HQ could only be 4 supply hexes away. Here's the manual:

Friendly HQs with a supply value of at least 3, will automatically boost the
supply of another friendly HQ that is within supply distribution range.


I'm guessing that the supply distribution range is the range that an HQ can distribute supply to units. That could be up to 8 hexes. Or maybe the supply distribution range is 5 hexes? That's the HQ command range. I have no idea.

Hope that helps.
Lone



< Message edited by LoneRunner -- 11/11/2020 12:27:53 AM >

(in reply to EarlyDoors)
Post #: 46
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/12/2020 11:10:30 AM   
EarlyDoors


Posts: 438
Joined: 12/16/2018
From: uk
Status: online
Good call Lonerunner.
I wasn't aware that Logistics had that effect.
I guess its possible that it is boosted by Logistics although my opponent is not sure.
He doesn't think he has Logistics Level 4 and i would be amazed if he has as the Germans have only spent 2850 mpps on R&D by June 44.


(in reply to LoneRunner)
Post #: 47
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/12/2020 1:23:22 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 4904
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline
Hi EarlyDoors,

My guess is that the HQ at Jerusalem is boosting the one in the Suez. The distance is 5 land hexes from Jerusalem to the Suez. If your opponent is up for it, ask him to mouse hover or click on the HQ in the Suez and see if a yellow hex appears around the one in Jerusalem.

This will indicate the parent relationship for the HQ in the Suez.

Hubert

_____________________________


(in reply to EarlyDoors)
Post #: 48
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/12/2020 1:27:45 PM   
EarlyDoors


Posts: 438
Joined: 12/16/2018
From: uk
Status: online
Thanks Hubert

I have asked the question of him ~ he will hopefully reciprocate as he's on the verge of victory

So the maximum distance to boost an HQ is 5 rather than the 4 hexes mistakenly quoted earlier in this thread?
Does it depend upon terrain?

Ok, that makes sense

(in reply to Hubert Cater)
Post #: 49
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/13/2020 1:19:57 AM   
LoneRunner

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/16/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EarlyDoors

Good call Lonerunner.
I wasn't aware that Logistics had that effect.
I guess its possible that it is boosted by Logistics although my opponent is not sure.
He doesn't think he has Logistics Level 4 and i would be amazed if he has as the Germans have only spent 2850 mpps on R&D by June 44.

Wow, 2,850 MPPs on research by June 44! My last German opponent invested 3,100 MPPs into research by the end of 41, haha.

Maxing Infantry Weapons, Advanced Tanks, Ground Attack, Command & Control, and Industrial Tech uses almost 2,500 MPPs for the Germans. That only left him about 350 MPPs for everything else. I'm guessing he went low tech and slammed all of his MPPs into units.

That must have been an interesting game.

(in reply to EarlyDoors)
Post #: 50
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/13/2020 2:54:42 AM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 4904
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EarlyDoors

Thanks Hubert

I have asked the question of him ~ he will hopefully reciprocate as he's on the verge of victory

So the maximum distance to boost an HQ is 5 rather than the 4 hexes mistakenly quoted earlier in this thread?
Does it depend upon terrain?

Ok, that makes sense


I looked at this more carefully and realized I misspoke on the 5 hexes, it would actually be a total distance value of 6, e.g. the hex at the Suez Canal costs 2 to traverse.

The HQ at Jerusalem would be the parent for boosting the HQ at Suez and the reason for this is it is likely getting a decent supply value from either Amman or from Damascus, and this is because they are probably connected by rail back to Berlin since Turkey has joined giving them capital strength values of 8. This assumes they have not been bombed like the other visible resources you've shown.

Thus the HQ at Jerusalem likely has a supply value of 5, and a distribution value of 8.

Then 8 - 6 which is > 0 means that the HQ at Jerusalem can reach the HQ at Suez for boosting.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

_____________________________


(in reply to EarlyDoors)
Post #: 51
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/13/2020 12:37:44 PM   
EarlyDoors


Posts: 438
Joined: 12/16/2018
From: uk
Status: online

quote:

Thus the HQ at Jerusalem likely has a supply value of 5, and a distribution value of 8.

Then 8 - 6 which is > 0 means that the HQ at Jerusalem can reach the HQ at Suez for boosting.


My opponent has confirmed that the Suez HQ is being boosted by the Jerusalem HQ

Ah, so according to the above,

An HQ can be boosted by another HQ (of the same or higher rank) if the supply of the source HQ minus the distance is greater than 0

https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/jerusalem-units.jpg

Now I've levelled Amman and Damascus, Jerusalem as well sa taken a couple of points from the boosted HQ, so it should result in being 1 supply distribution short of a boost HQ situation

https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/level-damascas.jpg


(in reply to Hubert Cater)
Post #: 52
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/13/2020 2:07:39 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 4904
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline
Yes, I think you've got it now

_____________________________


(in reply to EarlyDoors)
Post #: 53
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/13/2020 3:35:23 PM   
Elessar2


Posts: 592
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoneRunner

Researching Logistics raises the Minimum Supply Value for HQs. At level 1,
the Minimum Supply Value is 1, and this will rise by 1 for every subsequent
level attained.
So if level 5 Logistics has been attained, then a HQ with a strength value
of 1-4 will have a minimum supply value of 5 even if it has no access to a
supply source.
It is true that this means that you will only really see any benefit if a high
level of Logistics is researched, but this may be of use in a critical situation.


Hubert can confirm, but I believe that the above is no longer true, for any of the 3 games. If it was, Logistics would be the most valuable tech, by far. In which case no surprise if it got nerfed. Hovering the mouse over the tech in the game doesn't indicate this at all.

(in reply to LoneRunner)
Post #: 54
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/13/2020 5:35:22 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 4904
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline
Hi Elessar2,

Logistics still plays a role but the way it works is that the final distribution value of an HQ cannot fall below the current Logistics level.

e.g. if a nation has Logistics Level-5, then the minimum final calculated distribution value of an HQ cannot be less than 5. If it is, then the HQ assumes the distribution value of the current Logistics level which in this case is 5.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

_____________________________


(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 55
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/13/2020 9:44:53 PM   
LoneRunner

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/16/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

Hi Elessar2,

Logistics still plays a role but the way it works is that the final distribution value of an HQ cannot fall below the current Logistics level.

e.g. if a nation has Logistics Level-5, then the minimum final calculated distribution value of an HQ cannot be less than 5. If it is, then the HQ assumes the distribution value of the current Logistics level which in this case is 5.

Hope this helps,
Hubert


I'm sorry Hubert, but I'm not sure I understood your explanation.

The manual states that if level 5 logistics has been attained then an HQ would have a minimum supply value of 5 which would allow the HQ to distribute 8 supply.

If I understood you correctly, you are saying the the manual wording is incorrect and should state that if level 5 logistics was attained an HQ could distribute 5 supply (not 8 supply). So researching logistics affects distributed supply not supply value.

Is that correct?

I want to make sure because like Elessar said, suddenly logistics became even more important to research.

(in reply to Hubert Cater)
Post #: 56
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/13/2020 10:42:59 PM   
EarlyDoors


Posts: 438
Joined: 12/16/2018
From: uk
Status: online
lol..next USSR surrendered and I ofefred an unconditional surrender

However I can see the Suez HQ was outputting 6

https://strategic-command.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/tobruk-supply/endgame.jpg

which was not forecast

It must have been an 8 minus a bit of strength reduction from Aircraft Carriers

No idea how full strength Suez HQ could output 8...................

(in reply to LoneRunner)
Post #: 57
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/13/2020 11:27:29 PM   
Elessar2


Posts: 592
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline
Then [with all due respect] the in-game description of the tech in question should explicitly say that.

The biggest remaining fault with the interface is how certain, often-vital, information is NOT disclosed to the player, in-game. Another example of that is the research %'s, ESP. including the various modifiers (Spying, catchup, sharing), are a complete mystery from inside the game.

News to me and I've been playing this series since the first installment. I just thought I was saving some MPPs for operational moves and transports and getting an extra HQ here and there.

(in reply to EarlyDoors)
Post #: 58
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/16/2020 1:46:17 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 4904
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoneRunner

I'm sorry Hubert, but I'm not sure I understood your explanation.

The manual states that if level 5 logistics has been attained then an HQ would have a minimum supply value of 5 which would allow the HQ to distribute 8 supply.

If I understood you correctly, you are saying the the manual wording is incorrect and should state that if level 5 logistics was attained an HQ could distribute 5 supply (not 8 supply). So researching logistics affects distributed supply not supply value.

Is that correct?

I want to make sure because like Elessar said, suddenly logistics became even more important to research.


We've made a note to ideally update the Manual text for this section and apologies for the confusion.

For now, my explanation is the correct one, e.g. distribution supply calculation remains unchanged, however if after distribution supply is calculated, if the value is less than the current logistics value, then the logistics value is applied as the distribution supply value.

Essentially this just means the distribution supply value cannot be less than the current logistics value.

Hope this makes sense,
Hubert


_____________________________


(in reply to LoneRunner)
Post #: 59
RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk - 11/16/2020 1:56:45 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 4904
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elessar2

Then [with all due respect] the in-game description of the tech in question should explicitly say that.

The biggest remaining fault with the interface is how certain, often-vital, information is NOT disclosed to the player, in-game. Another example of that is the research %'s, ESP. including the various modifiers (Spying, catchup, sharing), are a complete mystery from inside the game.

News to me and I've been playing this series since the first installment. I just thought I was saving some MPPs for operational moves and transports and getting an extra HQ here and there.


Agreed and it could have been a change that was made and we missed the update in the Manual, but as just mentioned above we've made a note to correct this for a future update of the Manual.

For spying and intelligence, catch up and sharing, part of the issue here is that not all info can be revealed to a player without breaking fog of war. However, when FoW is disabled, if you are in the Research screen, and mouse hover over section that shows the '175x1' for Advanced Tanks, it displays more info there for you to better understand the current calculations.

See this screenshot below:



The mouse hover indicates the advancement range, which is 3-8% but improved to 3-9%, and the breakdown of that advancement range, e.g. there is no help or loss from Friendly or Enemy levels, but you do get the 1% bonus from Spying and Intelligence.

There is a thread here that gives more info and hopefully this helps too:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4662952

Hubert

< Message edited by Hubert Cater -- 11/16/2020 1:57:01 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII: World at War >> RE: Guess the Supply level of the Italian Tanks in Tobruk Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.241