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[Logged] Submarine Depth - No predefined In Layer setting?

 
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[Logged] Submarine Depth - No predefined In Layer setting? - 9/25/2020 3:52:32 AM   
pbrowne


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Complete noob question on CMO and submarines. Why isn't there a predefined depth setting for in-layer?

< Message edited by Rory Noonan -- 10/5/2020 2:17:53 AM >
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RE: Submarine Depth - No predefined In Layer setting? - 9/25/2020 6:35:55 AM   
Fido81

 

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I recall reading somewhere (I've just spent the past few minutes looking for a source and come up empty so take this with a big grain of salt) that just like the upper boundary of the layer reflects sonar pulses from ships on the surface, the upper and lower boundaries of the layer reflect sonar from submarines in the layer. This means that operating in the layer makes you tactically blind (unless you've got a towed array, but the vast majority of boats represented in the game don't).

I would imagine it's quite difficult to sink a ship you can't actually detect. Similarly, unless the opposition has a variable depth sonar (again, the vast majority of ships represented in the game don't), I imagine they'll have a rather difficult time detecting you. I'm not sure when it's a really great idea to be in a position where you definitely can't see the enemy and the enemy probably can't see you, but if they can - you're dead. Maybe it makes sense for boomers?

Since there seems to be limited tactical utility, it makes sense to me that the setting wouldn't be a default for the game. Why would you want the computer to be able to do as a default something that doesn't give it either an offensive or defensive advantage?

Addendum: See the CMO Manual pg 235-6 for further information about the implementation of "the layer" in-game.

< Message edited by Fido81 -- 9/25/2020 6:59:57 AM >

(in reply to pbrowne)
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RE: Submarine Depth - No predefined In Layer setting? - 9/25/2020 7:25:06 AM   
pbrowne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fido81

I recall reading somewhere (I've just spent the past few minutes looking for a source and come up empty so take this with a big grain of salt) that just like the upper boundary of the layer reflects sonar pulses from ships on the surface, the upper and lower boundaries of the layer reflect sonar from submarines in the layer. This means that operating in the layer makes you tactically blind (unless you've got a towed array, but the vast majority of boats represented in the game don't).

I would imagine it's quite difficult to sink a ship you can't actually detect. Similarly, unless the opposition has a variable depth sonar (again, the vast majority of ships represented in the game don't), I imagine they'll have a rather difficult time detecting you. I'm not sure when it's a really great idea to be in a position where you definitely can't see the enemy and the enemy probably can't see you, but if they can - you're dead. Maybe it makes sense for boomers?

Since there seems to be limited tactical utility, it makes sense to me that the setting wouldn't be a default for the game. Why would you want the computer to be able to do as a default something that doesn't give it either an offensive or defensive advantage?

Addendum: See the CMO Manual pg 235-6 for further information about the implementation of "the layer" in-game.



Thanks Fido81. I' m aware that in the thermocline that you can be tactically blind. However, I imagine that there would be occasions, especially for SSBNs, to mask in the layer, say to and from launch zones...

(in reply to Fido81)
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RE: Submarine Depth - No predefined In Layer setting? - 9/25/2020 8:54:27 AM   
cmanouser1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fido81
Since there seems to be limited tactical utility


Hard disagree here , I use it in most scenarios:

1) Inside the layer is the best place to travel at medium to high speed: you're minimizing the risk to be detected by sonars above and below the layer. And detection within the layer is terrible too.

Typical use is to travel fast in the layer, periodically go back to creep "above layer" (which, if you have a TASS, will give you indication below the layer too) to peek for a while and make sure it's still safe, then back in the layer at speed!

2) It's also the best place to hide in, if you can't reach the ocean floor, if enemies have both TASS and hull sonars.

I agree inside the layer is a needed setting; it's not sufficient to set it manually as, for long hauls, the layer will move.

< Message edited by cmanouser1 -- 9/25/2020 9:03:40 AM >

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RE: Submarine Depth - No predefined In Layer setting? - 9/25/2020 8:09:34 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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Ditto. Travel within the layer is pretty much my default setting behaviour, unless I'm hunting for something.


< Message edited by AndrewJ -- 9/26/2020 11:49:05 AM >

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RE: Submarine Depth - No predefined In Layer setting? - 9/25/2020 10:46:54 PM   
pbrowne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewJ

Ditto. Travel within the layer is pretty much my default setting...



What setting?

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RE: Submarine Depth - No predefined In Layer setting? - 9/26/2020 1:46:19 AM   
cmanouser1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pbrowne


quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewJ

Ditto. Travel within the layer is pretty much my default setting...



What setting?

He means that by default he travels in the layer.

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RE: Submarine Depth - No predefined In Layer setting? - 9/26/2020 11:48:01 AM   
AndrewJ

 

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That's right, sorry for the clumsy wording on my part.

< Message edited by AndrewJ -- 9/26/2020 11:49:26 AM >

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RE: Submarine Depth - No predefined In Layer setting? - 10/5/2020 2:18:03 AM   
Rory Noonan

 

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Logged for investigation.

0014170

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