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22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/19/2020 2:30:03 PM   
WEXF

 

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Another question from a newbie. In looking at the PBYs that are available at PH after December 7 it shows that they are with a preferred load of 22"MK13 Torp. but the listing is in "RED". Normally that means that they are not available. Am I reading that correctly? I looked to see if they were in the pool but could not find a listing for them. Where would they be listed?
Fred
Post #: 1
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/19/2020 2:48:36 PM   
RangerJoe


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Your Air Headquarters (HQa) would provide them if they have them and are within the command range of the air unit needing them.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to WEXF)
Post #: 2
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/19/2020 5:18:53 PM   
WEXF

 

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Thanks. I did go to the Air HQ and saw that they had no torpedos but I added 20 and now the PBYs are OK to go. Actually, not likely that I will use them with the torpedos now but at least I now know how it all works.
Thanks again for all the help. It is really appreciated.
Fred

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 3
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/19/2020 8:18:47 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15480
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WEXF

Thanks. I did go to the Air HQ and saw that they had no torpedos but I added 20 and now the PBYs are OK to go. Actually, not likely that I will use them with the torpedos now but at least I now know how it all works.
Thanks again for all the help. It is really appreciated.
Fred

If your torpedoes are likely to be used up, you can set them to automatically restock by going to the Air HQ screen, clicking on the Show TOE button and adjust the TOE for torpedoes to the number you want to keep on hand for the aircraft that can use them. I think that extends out to the range of the Air HQ.

Be aware that each torpedo created uses 10 supply points. Also be aware that torpedoes cannot be carried beyond normal range for the aircraft. You can set the squadron to carry them but if the range is too great they will automatically carry bombs instead.

Another note - you do not need to actually have torpedoes available for the squadron to train in NavT attacks. It just has to be a valid mission for that aircraft type. Just ignore the red lettering if you are just training.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 9/19/2020 8:20:38 PM >


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(in reply to WEXF)
Post #: 4
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/19/2020 10:23:45 PM   
wga8888


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-I saw this conversation and it made me realize there is much I did not realize regarding using torpedoes on Patrol planes and torpedo capable bombers. I had not realized the color of the torpedo toggle had meaning. Further muddled as partially color blind and some days and lighting I mainly see different colors of gray. So I will ask.
-Am currently in the middle (mid November) of a Guadalcanal pbem scenario play as the USN.
-All my patrol planes on the right/Noumea side belong to the South Pacific HQ. The US 13 Air HQ does not arrive until mid December. It as well as the South Pacific Rear Area restricted HQ are in Noumea. SoPac which has a command radius of 5, I left there; so Efate and Luganville are out of command range. I could relocate the Efate so Luganville so both E & LV can be in command range, putting Noume out of command range. However both E ^& LV have been naval bombarded to date so there is some exposure.Through experimenting, I note a patrol plane (PBY5, PBY5a, visiting Australian Catalinas) Using Torpedo/Using Bomb toggle is yellow/green when in command range of Noumea and SoPac; else it is white/red (no torpedoes).
-On the left/Australia side most of the Australian planes belong to the RAAF command, although this is never an RAAF HQ in the game. The SWPac (Command Range 8) and later the 5th AF HQ (Command Range 0) arrives which can be reassigned a group to at the cost of Political Points.
-I have always been frustrated that when my Beaufort V (bomb only) is upgraded to Beaufort VIII (bomb or torpedoes) has never attacked in 5+ attempts with torpedoes whether based in Port Moresby (Airbase 5) or Cooktown (Airbase 5) despite my having selected Using Torpedoes (in red). I thought red just meant torpedoes was selected, missed that it meant no torpedoes are available. In experimenting with my RAAF Beaufort VIII in Townsville (undefined command range to RAAF HQ) can use torpedoes while with the questionable command range to the mythical RAAF HQ. Also if assigned to the SWPac in Townsville it can carry torpedoes, even if 5th HQ is out of command range in Rockhampton (8 hexes as the crow flies from Townsville, 9 hexes by rail). But if in Cooktown 8 hexes from Townsville with no rail connection, it cannot use torpedoes regardless if assigned to RAAF or SWPac HQ. The best place to use Beaufort VIII with torpedoes is Cooktown to contest IJN ships in teh Coral Sea. (at some point in this scenario the IJN routinely naval bombards PM).
A> Is this due to AF being only level 5? Is there a minimum supply required as in ship rearming with torpedoes? (chart on manual page 287)
B> OR No rail connection to Townsville,
C> OR the mythical RAAF HQ too far away of if assigned to SWPac hence 5th Air HQ, the 5th Air HQ is too far away?
D> Cooktown may be less than double supply required (green exclamation mark) or below supply required (red exclamation mark)?


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(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 5
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/20/2020 3:26:56 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15480
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: wga8888

-I saw this conversation and it made me realize there is much I did not realize regarding using torpedoes on Patrol planes and torpedo capable bombers. I had not realized the color of the torpedo toggle had meaning. Further muddled as partially color blind and some days and lighting I mainly see different colors of gray. So I will ask.
-Am currently in the middle (mid November) of a Guadalcanal pbem scenario play as the USN.
-All my patrol planes on the right/Noumea side belong to the South Pacific HQ. The US 13 Air HQ does not arrive until mid December. It as well as the South Pacific Rear Area restricted HQ are in Noumea. SoPac which has a command radius of 5, I left there; so Efate and Luganville are out of command range. I could relocate the Efate so Luganville so both E & LV can be in command range, putting Noume out of command range. However both E ^& LV have been naval bombarded to date so there is some exposure.Through experimenting, I note a patrol plane (PBY5, PBY5a, visiting Australian Catalinas) Using Torpedo/Using Bomb toggle is yellow/green when in command range of Noumea and SoPac; else it is white/red (no torpedoes).
-On the left/Australia side most of the Australian planes belong to the RAAF command, although this is never an RAAF HQ in the game. The SWPac (Command Range 8) and later the 5th AF HQ (Command Range 0) arrives which can be reassigned a group to at the cost of Political Points.
-I have always been frustrated that when my Beaufort V (bomb only) is upgraded to Beaufort VIII (bomb or torpedoes) has never attacked in 5+ attempts with torpedoes whether based in Port Moresby (Airbase 5) or Cooktown (Airbase 5) despite my having selected Using Torpedoes (in red). I thought red just meant torpedoes was selected, missed that it meant no torpedoes are available. In experimenting with my RAAF Beaufort VIII in Townsville (undefined command range to RAAF HQ) can use torpedoes while with the questionable command range to the mythical RAAF HQ. Also if assigned to the SWPac in Townsville it can carry torpedoes, even if 5th HQ is out of command range in Rockhampton (8 hexes as the crow flies from Townsville, 9 hexes by rail). But if in Cooktown 8 hexes from Townsville with no rail connection, it cannot use torpedoes regardless if assigned to RAAF or SWPac HQ. The best place to use Beaufort VIII with torpedoes is Cooktown to contest IJN ships in teh Coral Sea. (at some point in this scenario the IJN routinely naval bombards PM).
A> Is this due to AF being only level 5? Is there a minimum supply required as in ship rearming with torpedoes? (chart on manual page 287)
B> OR No rail connection to Townsville,
C> OR the mythical RAAF HQ too far away of if assigned to SWPac hence 5th Air HQ, the 5th Air HQ is too far away?
D> Cooktown may be less than double supply required (green exclamation mark) or below supply required (red exclamation mark)?


The airfield size for a TB follows the same rules as for a bomb loaded aircraft - the number of engines + bomb/torpedo load divided by 6500.

Not sure about the need for a rail or road connection between the Air HQ and other bases. Command HQs do not affect torpedo possession.

If supply is in the red, your issue may be lack of Avgas rather than lack of torps (assuming your Air HQ already has them).

Naval attack missions will not fly if you do not first have current detection on the enemy ships. That often means detecting them during both night and day phases. Torpedo attacks usually happen in the afternoon after a morning sighting by Naval Search.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to wga8888)
Post #: 6
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/21/2020 2:39:03 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 6460
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quote:

Not sure about the need for a rail or road connection between the Air HQ and other bases.


No such requirement.

quote:

Command HQs do not affect torpedo possession.


Sure do. See 7.2.1.10.2.2, p165.

quote:

your issue may be lack of Avgas


Avgas? No such thing in the game.

BB what's going on?

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 7
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/21/2020 2:56:47 AM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

your issue may be lack of Avgas


Avgas? No such thing in the game.

BB what's going on?


No Avgas as a separate item but it is folded into supply which is also represented in the supplies that are manufactured by the refineries.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 8
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/21/2020 1:54:34 PM   
BBfanboy


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Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Not sure about the need for a rail or road connection between the Air HQ and other bases.


No such requirement.

quote:

Command HQs do not affect torpedo possession.


Sure do. See 7.2.1.10.2.2, p165.

quote:

your issue may be lack of Avgas


Avgas? No such thing in the game.

BB what's going on?

When the manual was written, Command HQs and a few BFs could supply torpedoes. That is long since changed to Air HQs.

RJ is right - supply includes Avgas which is what would be applicable to air ops. If the Air HQ already has the torpedoes, supply should not affect the weapons loadout, leaving only fuel affected by supply shortages.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 9
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/22/2020 8:41:11 AM   
Alfred

 

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1. Adequate supply plus a positive torpedo inventory are both required at the launching airfield.

2. Command HQs can also supply torpedoes. It was Base Forces which were changed to not provide torpedoes unless a torpedo device was in their TOE.

Alfred

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 10
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/22/2020 1:22:43 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15480
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

1. Adequate supply plus a positive torpedo inventory are both required at the launching airfield.

2. Command HQs can also supply torpedoes. It was Base Forces which were changed to not provide torpedoes unless a torpedo device was in their TOE.

Alfred

I stand corrected. I have tried to get TBs to use torpedoes within range of a Command HQ, but wasn't able. I will look at the situation again. Thanks for the correction.

Edit: had a look at a couple of places in my game in progress. In each case the Command HQ had no torpedo holdings and was co-located with an Air HQ that did. So it appeared to me that only the Air HQ was responsible for torpedo availability. Bad assumption, but not totally unsupported ...




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 9/22/2020 2:33:57 PM >


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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 11
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/22/2020 3:26:11 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

1. Adequate supply plus a positive torpedo inventory are both required at the launching airfield.

2. Command HQs can also supply torpedoes. It was Base Forces which were changed to not provide torpedoes unless a torpedo device was in their TOE.

Alfred

I stand corrected. I have tried to get TBs to use torpedoes within range of a Command HQ, but wasn't able. I will look at the situation again. Thanks for the correction.

Edit: had a look at a couple of places in my game in progress. In each case the Command HQ had no torpedo holdings and was co-located with an Air HQ that did. So it appeared to me that only the Air HQ was responsible for torpedo availability. Bad assumption, but not totally unsupported ...





But doesn't the Command HQ double the range of the Air HQ? If so, then that may be why it would appear that the Command HQ provides the torpedoes.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 12
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/23/2020 12:31:14 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 6460
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From: LI, NY
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quote:

But doesn't the Command HQ double the range of the Air HQ?


AFAIK no.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 13
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/23/2020 12:39:17 AM   
rustysi


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From: LI, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

1. Adequate supply plus a positive torpedo inventory are both required at the launching airfield.

2. Command HQs can also supply torpedoes. It was Base Forces which were changed to not provide torpedoes unless a torpedo device was in their TOE.

Alfred



Thank Alfred. Saved me the time needed to look this up.

quote:

In each case the Command HQ had no torpedo holdings and was co-located with an Air HQ that did.


As this is my current condition I'd have to go back to an earlier save to verify.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 14
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/23/2020 1:46:58 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15480
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

1. Adequate supply plus a positive torpedo inventory are both required at the launching airfield.

2. Command HQs can also supply torpedoes. It was Base Forces which were changed to not provide torpedoes unless a torpedo device was in their TOE.

Alfred



Thank Alfred. Saved me the time needed to look this up.

quote:

In each case the Command HQ had no torpedo holdings and was co-located with an Air HQ that did.


As this is my current condition I'd have to go back to an earlier save to verify.

No need - I found a Command HQ that was not located with an Air HQ and it allowed a TB squadron to switch to torps. You and Alfred are of course correct on that. I just reached the wrong conclusion based on incomplete information and erroneous assumptions. (Like that never happened before ...)


_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 15
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/23/2020 1:53:48 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


...The airfield size for a TB follows the same rules as for a bomb loaded aircraft - the number of engines + bomb/torpedo load divided by 6500...



No such rule for Torpedo Bombers.

Alfred

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 16
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/23/2020 2:48:17 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15480
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


...The airfield size for a TB follows the same rules as for a bomb loaded aircraft - the number of engines + bomb/torpedo load divided by 6500...



No such rule for Torpedo Bombers.

Alfred

So an Avenger can take off with a torpedo from a size 2 AF? That doesn't seem realistic to me, but maybe my image of a Level 2 grass strip (flattened by rollers) is too severe. Thanks for the correction - I will try that next game.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 17
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/23/2020 3:17:26 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


...The airfield size for a TB follows the same rules as for a bomb loaded aircraft - the number of engines + bomb/torpedo load divided by 6500...



No such rule for Torpedo Bombers.

Alfred

So an Avenger can take off with a torpedo from a size 2 AF? That doesn't seem realistic to me, but maybe my image of a Level 2 grass strip (flattened by rollers) is too severe. Thanks for the correction - I will try that next game.


Yes, provided the higher supply threshold of a level 2 AF is met.

Alfred

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 18
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/23/2020 5:47:13 PM   
RangerJoe


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The Avenger, although big and heavy, is a single engine aircraft. If it can take off from a CVE with a torpedo, then a size 2 airfield should be okay.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 19
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/23/2020 7:38:16 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 6460
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

I just reached the wrong conclusion based on incomplete information and erroneous assumptions. (Like that never happened before ...)


No problem. Been there done that.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 20
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/23/2020 7:54:59 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8209
Joined: 11/16/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

I just reached the wrong conclusion based on incomplete information and erroneous assumptions. (Like that never happened before ...)


No problem. Been there done that.


That is true, you even posted the evidence. You did state that you had been married!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 21
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/23/2020 8:28:05 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15480
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The Avenger, although big and heavy, is a single engine aircraft. If it can take off from a CVE with a torpedo, then a size 2 airfield should be okay.

My issue with the size two AF is the fact that it doesn't move into the wind at 21 knots and it doesn't have a hard surface to keep the aircraft from sinking in.

EDIT to Add: The C-130 I was on once taxied onto a tarmac beside the hangar on a hot sunny day and started to sink in. We had to run the engines up to keep it moving fast and go back out to park on the runway. Small airfield - no other traffic expected.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 9/23/2020 8:31:36 PM >


_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 22
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/23/2020 8:40:59 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8209
Joined: 11/16/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The Avenger, although big and heavy, is a single engine aircraft. If it can take off from a CVE with a torpedo, then a size 2 airfield should be okay.

My issue with the size two AF is the fact that it doesn't move into the wind at 21 knots and it doesn't have a hard surface to keep the aircraft from sinking in.

EDIT to Add: The C-130 I was on once taxied onto a tarmac beside the hangar on a hot sunny day and started to sink in. We had to run the engines up to keep it moving fast and go back out to park on the runway. Small airfield - no other traffic expected.


The Allies had that metal matting for their runways and taxiways. Although I don't think that there were many Yellow Cabs there.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 23
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 9/24/2020 1:05:13 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15480
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The Avenger, although big and heavy, is a single engine aircraft. If it can take off from a CVE with a torpedo, then a size 2 airfield should be okay.

My issue with the size two AF is the fact that it doesn't move into the wind at 21 knots and it doesn't have a hard surface to keep the aircraft from sinking in.

EDIT to Add: The C-130 I was on once taxied onto a tarmac beside the hangar on a hot sunny day and started to sink in. We had to run the engines up to keep it moving fast and go back out to park on the runway. Small airfield - no other traffic expected.


The Allies had that metal matting for their runways and taxiways. Although I don't think that there were many Yellow Cabs there.

Any pictures I have seen of the Marston mats being used shows a hard gravel runway underneath. The mats would help keep the aircraft from sinking in if heavy rains softened the surface, but they would need a fairly flat surface for installation.


_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 24
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 10/11/2020 5:04:21 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

1. Adequate supply plus a positive torpedo inventory are both required at the launching airfield.

2. Command HQs can also supply torpedoes. It was Base Forces which were changed to not provide torpedoes unless a torpedo device was in their TOE.

Alfred

Something that I don't believe was used in the official scenarios, but which us modders are able to take advantage of.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 25
RE: 22"MK13Torpedo availability - 10/14/2020 5:54:25 PM   
bradfordkay

 

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It seems to me that a level 1 airfield is the quintessential grass strip, while a level 2 would imply some amount of grading and surfacing involved. The rules limit offensive missions from level 1 airfields but allow all types of offensive missions from level 2, provided the aircraft involved isn't too big.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 26
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