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Tutorials - 9/19/2020 1:30:04 PM   
wobbleguts

 

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Recently bought MWIF and as mentioned before I am extremely impressed by the hard copy manuals.
Before the manuals arrived I played a few of the video tutorials and wasn't any wiser. Screen shots/flow charts emphasized the complexity and detail of the game but didn't help me at all on how it would help me play it.

I posted about this and did get a reply, but by the time the manuals arrived I forgot the response. When the manuals turned up, I read up to page 12 where it said to watch the tutorials. So I tried again.

When you start the game the first splash screen has a 'video tutorial' option, and I selected that. Once again, I started going through them, didn't learn much and gave up on chapter 6.

Then I remembered the post about other tutorials. I pressed 'play game' and on the next splash screen there is picture/text and interactive tutorials.

Hopefully these are more helpful. Can someone confirm? If they are more helpful, why are the advanced/expert/ tutorials the only option on the first screen. They should be way back in the game - not on the first screen for a newbie. Caught me out 2 times now. Spent hours watching them.
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RE: Tutorials - 9/19/2020 1:54:57 PM   
Zovs


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For myself, I followed this path: text tutorial, video tutorial on the text tutorial I just learned, I repeated that till chapter 8 (land), and then I did the interactive tutorials and watched the videos for that particular series (away from PC or I give more details), now I am at tutorial 17 (naval).

So far reading doing and watching has helped me learn a lot. You have to be patience with the interactive tutorials and read the commentary and in some cases I had to restart it cause I goofed it up. Take it slowly, I have spent two weeks learning this way (I don’t play on the weekends).

All the tutorials are a godsend.

_____________________________


War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
WarPlan Beta Tester
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario & campaign creator

(in reply to wobbleguts)
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RE: Tutorials - 9/19/2020 2:20:48 PM   
wobbleguts

 

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So do the 'picture/text/interactive tutorials' make sense? I Hope so.

< Message edited by wobbleguts -- 9/19/2020 6:52:57 PM >

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RE: Tutorials - 9/19/2020 8:06:05 PM   
Zovs


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They sure did to me.

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War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
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DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario & campaign creator

(in reply to wobbleguts)
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RE: Tutorials - 9/23/2020 1:36:33 PM   
wobbleguts

 

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Up to 8 on the picture/test tutorials and can confirm they make a lot more sense than the video tutorials.

Still at a complete loss about 'impulse' rules. Hopefully the interactive tutorials will clear this up.

Also, 'initiative'. I must have read this paragraph a dozen times....

The initiative track shows the entire range
for the initiative, from Axis +2 through to Allies
+2. Currently the initiative is Axis +2. In the
upper right corner is information on the die rolls
for initiative. The Allies have rolled a 10 and
the Axis a 4. Therefore the Allies have won the
initiative. However, since the initiative is Axis
+2, the Axis can demand a re-roll, which would
result in both dice being re-rolled.


Really struggling with this. ie, the allies roll a 10 and the axis roll 4. But the axis have a +2 initiative which makes it a 6. That doesn't beat 10 so why can they re-roll?

If it's not based on math but on dice rolls (which I think is the case) It makes a little more sense. The axis have a +2 initiative so they can roll the dice again but only once. If that is the case what does a +1 initiative mean?

Impulse and initiative remain a mystery.






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RE: Tutorials - 9/23/2020 2:57:16 PM   
Orm


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The "Initiative Track" shows what bonuses, if any, each side has on the initiative die roll. It can be no bonus at all, or plus one, or plus two, on the die roll. In addition to the bonus to the die roll a side might have the opportunity to 'demand' a re-roll of the initiative die.

For example, in our current game (see picture below), the Axis side will have a +2 die roll modifier to their initiative roll, and if Axis doesn't win then they have the option of demanding a re-roll of the die.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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RE: Tutorials - 9/23/2020 3:06:37 PM   
Orm


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Each turn is divided into impulses when all the action occurs. In the first impulse the first side moves their units. And when that impulse is completed then there is a check if the turn ends. If it didn't end then there will be another impulse. This time for the second side. And so the impulses will continue with the sides moving switching back and forth until the end of turn check signals that there will be no more imulses for the turn.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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RE: Tutorials - 9/23/2020 3:09:49 PM   
Centuur


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Let's see if I can solve this mystery. Here's the initiative form.

This form has a couple of parts. First: there's the initiative track (left top). Initiative goes from +2 Axis down to +2 Allies. The plus is the modifier for the initiative die roll of that side.

In the current form, the initiative track is at +2 for the Axis (as indicated with the yellow line there). The initiative will change whenever:

1. the side which has the first impulse also has the last impulse in the turn. In that case the initiative goes towards the other side.
So if the Axis has the first and the last impulse this turn, the initiative goes down to Axis +1.
2. the side which doesn't win the initiative asks for a reroll. To ask for a reroll, your side needs to have at least a 0 on the initiative track.

So a decision to reroll makes it worse for the future to decide if one wants to go first or not. Now, during the game there might come a moment when asking for a reroll is important. Having the last impulse of a turn and a first one of the next turn can be devastating, because it doesn't give your opponent the possibility to fix things, especially when he is defending.

Why is that possibility in the game? To make things more interesting. Personally, I almost never ask for a reroll, because if you do that too much, you end up with less impulses as your opponent in the game and that's not good, since you need as many impulses as possible...

Impulses (and lots of them) is what you need. During impulses you move and fight. So the more impulses you get, the better it is. However, the number of impulses you will get is not known to you or your opponent at start of the turn. The die roll at the end of each impulse dictates if the turn ends or not. The weather dictates how fast the impulse number increases at the end of the impulse. That mechanism makes this game so very good.

I hope this helps a little bit.










Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Centuur -- 9/23/2020 3:10:47 PM >


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RE: Tutorials - 9/24/2020 12:11:18 PM   
wobbleguts

 

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Thanks for the responses.

Initiative now makes a bit more sense. The +2 +1 is added to the die roll, but if your side still loses the dice roll you can ask for a new one. If the initiative track is at 0, either side can ask for a re-roll. Got it (I think).

Impulse is still a little hazy. I understand the impulse track table (more impulses played more likely the turn will end) and the weather effect but not much else. Hopefully I will understand it better soon.

Up to 10 in the picture/text tutorials. Pretty sure my first solo game will be a complete disaster but I'm looking forward to it anyway.

(in reply to Orm)
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RE: Tutorials - 9/24/2020 12:32:17 PM   
Zovs


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Mine was more of a hack and hatch it job, but I learned a lot. Lol

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RE: Tutorials - 9/27/2020 2:16:43 PM   
wobbleguts

 

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Started the interactive tutorials and hit a wall.

It was all going well until I hit this page -

Info 2: Pools: Production, Construction ... Lend Lease (Page 5 of 15)
• LC Info; LC Pools; RD; LC Jul/Aug; RD; LC Construction; RD
• LC Repair; RD; LC Reserve; RD; LC Internment; RD; LC Conquered; RD
• LC Destroyed; RD; LC Scrapped; RD; LC Lend Lease; RD


Did that and it was all ok but the next bit didn't work.

• LC Force Pools; LC China; TY u; EX United States Force Pools
• LC Set Filter; CK Fighter; OK; EX Fighters
• CK build ahead; EX Fighters; LC Clear Filter; CF Pools


LC force pools. LC China. Didn't see any type 'u' units or USA units. Stopped here because I don't understand... Why can't I see these units? Probably doing something wrong.

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RE: Tutorials - 9/28/2020 11:36:44 AM   
wobbleguts

 

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OK, I got it half sorted.

• LC Force Pools; LC China; TY u; EX United States Force Pools
• LC Set Filter; CK Fighter; OK; EX Fighters


I was stupidly looking for a type 'U' unit on the initial screen. Realise now I had to literally type 'U' in the country list to examine the US force pool.

• CK build ahead; EX Fighters; LC Clear Filter; CF Pools.

Problem is there is no 'build ahead' option. Instead there is a 'show all future additions' and 'show next years additions' option. Probably not important so I am moving on...

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RE: Tutorials - 9/29/2020 7:05:33 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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About the Initiative calculations, ...

I always picture a 10 by 10 grid, with the rows being Axis rolls (or Allied) and the columns being the other side's.

Each side rolls a 10 sided die and using the two rolls you identify a cell in the grid.

Now, running down the diagonal are results of when the two rolls are equal. If there are no die roll modifiers, (Initiative track is on zero), then all results below the diagonal are won by one side and all results above the diagonal are won by the other side. There are 45 results above and 45 below. Hence, the player who wins ties wins the diagonal results has a 55% chance of winning the first set of die rolls, the other side has a 45% chance.

When one side is +1 on the initiative track, the diagonal line that defines tie results moves up or down. There are now 9 results in the diagonal. Also, there are 55 results favoring the player with +1 initiative and 36 for the other player. If the player winning ties has the +1, then he will win the first set of rolls 64% (55 + 9) of the time.

And so on.

This visual of the grid lets me calculate the probability of me getting to decide who goes first next turn fairly easily. I hope it helps others.

_____________________________

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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RE: Tutorials - 9/29/2020 9:24:22 PM   
rkr1958


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

About the Initiative calculations, ...

I always picture a 10 by 10 grid, with the rows being Axis rolls (or Allied) and the columns being the other side's.

Each side rolls a 10 sided die and using the two rolls you identify a cell in the grid.

Now, running down the diagonal are results of when the two rolls are equal. If there are no die roll modifiers, (Initiative track is on zero), then all results below the diagonal are won by one side and all results above the diagonal are won by the other side. There are 45 results above and 45 below. Hence, the player who wins ties wins the diagonal results has a 55% chance of winning the first set of die rolls, the other side has a 45% chance.

When one side is +1 on the initiative track, the diagonal line that defines tie results moves up or down. There are now 9 results in the diagonal. Also, there are 55 results favoring the player with +1 initiative and 36 for the other player. If the player winning ties has the +1, then he will win the first set of rolls 64% (55 + 9) of the time.

And so on.

This visual of the grid lets me calculate the probability of me getting to decide who goes first next turn fairly easily. I hope it helps others.
Steve, I guess you're just more visual than me. I just the series summation formula, which is:

Sum(i, for 1 to N) = (N+1)*N/2 and account for the advantage and who win ties by adjusting the that formula appropriately. I've gotten to where I can do it in my head, even calculating the chance of winning both rolls, 1 or 2 rolls, etc.

I'll go through how I did my last calculation. Both sides wanted to move first. The axis had a +1 advantage, would win a tie and if necessary (i.e., lost the first roll) would request a re-roll.

So lets look at this from the allied point-of-view:

The allied chance of even winning the first roll requires that they roll a 3 or higher. That is, no way they can with with a roll of 1 or 2. So 3 through 10. For an allied roll of 3, there's only one D10 roll that the axis can make, and that's 1, where the allies win. For an allied D10=3 there's 1 axis rolls, for D10=4 there's 2 axis rolls, ..., for allied D10=10 there's 8 axis rolls.

So using the series summation formula that means there are 9*8/2=36 roll combinations out of 100 (10 allied x 10 axis D10 combos) in which the allies will win the first roll. So there is a probability of 0.36 that the allies will win the first roll.

If they win the first roll then the axis will request a re-roll. In this case the axis would lose their +1 advantage (i.e., reduced by 1 to 0) but still win ties. Again there is no way the allies can win on a roll of 1, but now they have a chance if they roll 2 or higher. For an allied D10=2 there's 1 axis roll (that the allies win), D10=3 there's 2 axis rolls, ..., D10=10 there's 9 rolls. So there's 10*9/2=45 roll combinations out of 100 that the allies will win if a re-roll is necessary. This gives the allies a probability of 0.45 of winning a re-roll (if necessary).

To get the initiative the allies have to win not only the first roll but a reroll. So the probability that this happens is:
Pr(Allies win initiative) = Pr(Allies win 1st roll) * Pr(allies win 2nd roll | win 1st roll) = .36*.45 = 0.162, or 16.2% that the allies will get the initiative.

This (also) means that the axis have a 84.8% chance of winning it.


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RE: Tutorials - 10/1/2020 2:54:32 PM   
wobbleguts

 

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Still doesn't make much sense to me but I'm sure it will by the time I start playing. The 1st interactive tutorial was a bit of a struggle and it got worse with each glass of wine. Now I have a better understanding of the ABs and tutorial navigation it's been plain sailing with tutorial #2. About to finish it in 1 night (while juggling many other things). Will probably go back to #1 later.


(in reply to rkr1958)
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