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Minesweepers - 9/14/2020 2:07:03 PM   
WEXF

 

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As a newbie I have a question on Minesweepers. If a MS or DMS or a Local MS
is included in a TF that is not a MS/TF does it protect the TF against running into minefields or does it have to be in a MS/TF to do minesweeping?
Fred
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RE: Minesweepers - 9/14/2020 2:47:53 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WEXF

As a newbie I have a question on Minesweepers. If a MS or DMS or a Local MS
is included in a TF that is not a MS/TF does it protect the TF against running into minefields or does it have to be in a MS/TF to do minesweeping?
Fred

First - there are no "Local MS". That is a mission, not a ship type.
Second - there are limitations on which types of minesweeping-capable ships can be combined with others in the same TF type, so check the manual charts that tell you what kinds of TF Missions the various MS types can join.
Third - within the restrictions shown, some minesweeper types can join some mission types and embed in the same TF. They will attempt to sweep the mines but they may not be able to get all of them that the TF encounters.

I often use DMS with bombardment TFs which usually saves the big ships from hitting mines.
Amphib TFs should have a couple of AMs embedded, and separate MS/Local MS TFs should go in ahead of the Amphib TF IMO. I often sweep the day before the Amphib TF enters the hex.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: Minesweepers - 9/14/2020 4:54:36 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WEXF

As a newbie I have a question on Minesweepers. If a MS or DMS or a Local MS
is included in a TF that is not a MS/TF does it protect the TF against running into minefields or does it have to be in a MS/TF to do minesweeping?
Fred


Minesweepers sometimes detonate mines with their own hulls. So there is no protection like what you appear to be asking. If mines are detected, somethies they will be swept by a non-minesweeping TF without damaging the ships.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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RE: Minesweepers - 9/14/2020 5:30:12 PM   
wga8888


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I usually use DMS travel with my surface bombardment TFs. May or may not be effective. MSWs travel with amphip forces but are often taken out by coastal guns.

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RE: Minesweepers - 9/14/2020 5:30:19 PM   
wga8888


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_____________________________

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skype: wga8888
817-501-2978 CST [-6 GMT]

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RE: Minesweepers - 9/14/2020 7:40:04 PM   
WEXF

 

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Sounds like the consensus is that having a minesweeper type in a non-minesweeping TF provides SOME degree of protection against mines for the other ships. I noticed that playing against the AI, I have seen numerous Japanese TF that include DMS leading an invasion force. I can see the use of these ships at the destination hexes for the invasion but I was wondering if they were also sweeping for mines all the time they were sailing toward their destination.
Thanks for all of the responses-especially good hearing from you Bill!
Fred

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RE: Minesweepers - 9/14/2020 8:36:12 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WEXF

Sounds like the consensus is that having a minesweeper type in a non-minesweeping TF provides SOME degree of protection against mines for the other ships. I noticed that playing against the AI, I have seen numerous Japanese TF that include DMS leading an invasion force. I can see the use of these ships at the destination hexes for the invasion but I was wondering if they were also sweeping for mines all the time they were sailing toward their destination.
Thanks for all of the responses-especially good hearing from you Bill!
Fred


They actually did in real life. In fact, even the transport ships would have the mine sweeping devices out.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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RE: Minesweepers - 9/14/2020 9:15:55 PM   
WEXF

 

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I guess I need to clarify that I completely understand the "real life" ability of the ships. What I am asking is whether "the game" actually calculates the probability of hitting mines differently if a DMS (or other MS capability ship type) is in a TF that is not dedicated as a MS/TF?
Fred

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RE: Minesweepers - 9/14/2020 10:07:22 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WEXF

I guess I need to clarify that I completely understand the "real life" ability of the ships. What I am asking is whether "the game" actually calculates the probability of hitting mines differently if a DMS (or other MS capability ship type) is in a TF that is not dedicated as a MS/TF?
Fred


I do not know. You would have to ask an expert and probably a developer at that.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to WEXF)
Post #: 9
RE: Minesweepers - 9/14/2020 10:21:03 PM   
Ambassador

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WEXF

I guess I need to clarify that I completely understand the "real life" ability of the ships. What I am asking is whether "the game" actually calculates the probability of hitting mines differently if a DMS (or other MS capability ship type) is in a TF that is not dedicated as a MS/TF?
Fred

When in doubt, play like you would wage the war in RL.

(in reply to WEXF)
Post #: 10
RE: Minesweepers - 9/14/2020 11:58:16 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WEXF

I guess I need to clarify that I completely understand the "real life" ability of the ships. What I am asking is whether "the game" actually calculates the probability of hitting mines differently if a DMS (or other MS capability ship type) is in a TF that is not dedicated as a MS/TF?
Fred

The first step in minesweeping is to detect the minefield. Before that happens, the chances of your ships hitting a mine depend on the size of the minefield and how close your ships are going to shore. (e.g. Bombardment TFs set for "Escorts Do Not Bombard" will remain further out from shore and rarely hit mines).

Once the minefield is detected, the minesweepers available will automatically start sweeping the mines, presumably increasing detection still further. Non-MS TFs will also learn about the mines and mostly avoid them, but this may not be in place until the administrative steps at the end of the turn in which the mines were discovered. - I.E. if your MS TF discovers the minefield during the night phase of the turn, it may take until the beginning of the next turn before the rest of your TFs know about the minefield. This can happen for your own minefields too - when your MLs lay a new minefield, wait until next day before operating valuable ships in that hex.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: Minesweepers - 9/15/2020 1:48:29 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WEXF

I guess I need to clarify that I completely understand the "real life" ability of the ships. What I am asking is whether "the game" actually calculates the probability of hitting mines differently if a DMS (or other MS capability ship type) is in a TF that is not dedicated as a MS/TF?
Fred


That isn't how the algorithms operate. The presence or absence of minesweepers per se does not increase/decrease the odds of other ships hitting mines.

You should read my post in this thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3613391&mpage=1&key=mine�

and the linked thread I provide in my post.

My post in your other concurrent thread on minesweeper task forces is also relevant here.

Alfred

(in reply to WEXF)
Post #: 12
RE: Minesweepers - 9/15/2020 11:44:20 AM   
fcooke

 

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The Brits used paravanes a fair bit to act as minesweepers, I think mostly on DDs. Not clear in my old mind if any other country did. It has been a while since I have played the game, but I thought even not DMS (DDs) types could take out mines, though hopefully not with their hulls.

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RE: Minesweepers - 9/15/2020 1:14:14 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

The Brits used paravanes a fair bit to act as minesweepers, I think mostly on DDs. Not clear in my old mind if any other country did. It has been a while since I have played the game, but I thought even not DMS (DDs) types could take out mines, though hopefully not with their hulls.

Canadian corvettes also carried some MS gear, but AFAIK it was not used frequently - they were needed too much for ASW duty.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: Minesweepers - 9/15/2020 2:24:32 PM   
WEXF

 

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Guys:
Thanks for the inputs. Lots to think about but that is why I bought the game.
I think I have a sense of what I will do going forward on minesweepers.
Fred

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 15
RE: Minesweepers - 9/15/2020 3:04:42 PM   
RADM.Yamaguchi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
This can happen for your own minefields too - when your MLs lay a new minefield, wait until next day before operating valuable ships in that hex.

thanks for the explanation. I had a TF bombard Pago Pago right after my MLs did their work and had a CA promptly hit a mine. I didn't know the communication can take a day or so.

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Post #: 16
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