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AI vs AI scenarios - 9/9/2020 2:13:31 PM   
thewood1

 

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Can people list any AI vs AI scenarios? These are scenarios with solid plans for either side where a "player" can sit back and just watch a scenario play out.

Please refrain from discussing MP wishes and denigration of AI play. Save that for another thread.
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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/9/2020 2:34:25 PM   
SeaQueen


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You mean, "Movies?"

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/9/2020 2:38:00 PM   
Eboreg

 

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"The Shark" from the Indian point of view and "A New Age" from the Shifting Sands DLC do come awfully close since your only actions are to set up a very basic set of missions and push "play".

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/9/2020 2:40:25 PM   
stww2

 

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I think I've read in the past that if you play Broken Shield 300 from the Syrian side, you could in theory sit back and watch the airstrike unfold (since SAMs are mostly automated in the game). And I guess theoretically you could take any scenario designed to be played from either side, disable the "Scrap mission of side is player-controlled" options in the Mission Editor (not the exact name of the setting but you get the idea), and let it play out.

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/9/2020 2:41:36 PM   
thewood1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaQueen

You mean, "Movies?"


There are specific reasons for asking for this that are obviously beyond some people's comprehension.

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/9/2020 2:43:39 PM   
thewood1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stww2

I think I've read in the past that if you play Broken Shield 300 from the Syrian side, you could in theory sit back and watch the airstrike unfold (since SAMs are mostly automated in the game). And I guess theoretically you could take any scenario designed to be played from either side, disable the "Scrap mission of side is player-controlled" options in the Mission Editor (not the exact name of the setting but you get the idea), and let it play out.


This is the point of this thread. I guess I should ave been more specific. I mean where missions have been built for both sides. I know about the scrap mission check box.

I should have had lower expectations.

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/9/2020 2:46:22 PM   
thewood1

 

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From my OP..."with solid plans"

I have some like Duelists and just wondering if anyone knows of any more. If you don't know any, please don't respond. I can already see where this is heading. I'll just go through some myself.

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/9/2020 3:38:59 PM   
Dimitris

 

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I _think_ most of the C-LIVE scenarios can be played from either side (please correct me if wrong), so those should be fine for AI-vs-AI.

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/9/2020 5:42:05 PM   
thewood1

 

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Thanks D

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/9/2020 6:18:56 PM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

I _think_ most of the C-LIVE scenarios can be played from either side (please correct me if wrong), so those should be fine for AI-vs-AI.



That should work, I used AI vs AI quite a bit when testing the C-Live scenarios I built.

B

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/9/2020 11:01:49 PM   
kevinkins


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I think if you want to sit back with a bag of popcorn and watch an AI vs AI "movie", the Live set of battles are a great place to start. But we all knew that months if not years ago. AI vs AI is a great way to test for the scenario designer. Great for sandboxing too. Not perfect. But a nice way to start before the designer releases a new scenario idea into beta testing with players. This technique can cull out a lot of silly errors in the original design.

Kevin

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/10/2020 12:44:12 PM   
DWReese

 

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Personally, I believe that EVERY scenario should be set up so that AI versus AI is possible. Doing this that way it would be much easier to create balanced, and extremely competitive scenarios. It would allow the game player to try things from both sides, and it also teaches the game mechanics to new game players. I believe that having the AI versus AI availability is very useful.

Finally, I also believe that so that the game isn't the same all of the time, certain units on each side should be placed into the game, but only appear on a random basis. That way, regardless of what side that you are playing, you never really know the exact enemy forces that you are facing, or where exactly they might be. It makes each game fun.

I would strongly encourage scenario designers to use this method for their future game design.

Doug

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/10/2020 3:44:20 PM   
thewood1

 

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I would be very careful demanding this type of effort from scenario designers. Its a lot of work building out even one side. Telling scenario designers to build out missions for every side is a good way to limit scenario development.

My suggestion is anyone insisting this approach to offer any scenario designer to take their scenarios and add in missions for the expected human side.

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/10/2020 8:20:10 PM   
DWReese

 

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You attributed the word "DEMANDING" to what I said. I didn't use that word.

I used the word "ENCOURAGE." There is a huge difference.

I sincerely believe that creating scenarios that can be played from either side, with a certain degree of randomness added in, keeps the scenario alive, and it would always present a challenge of being slightly different each time that you played it, which keeps it interesting. Not knowing what forces are present, or what could be present, makes the same scenario different and fun EACH TIME that you play it.

That would be my point. I believe that if scenario designers had this mindset, the scenarios could be better than they are now. As Gunner pointed out, most of the Live scenarios can be played from either side, and most have some level of randomness built into them. So, in my opinion, it would behoove scenario designers to sort of follow the same design principles as MATRIX has done with their LIVE scenario series. It works.

Most scenario designers really want to make the best scenario that they can possibly make. As you know, it takes a tremendous amount of effort to make a scenario, and I believe that almost everyone wants "their" scenario to be on par with that of the scenarios produced by the Matrix group. So, I am merely encouraging developers to see how others (Matrix) has developed their own scenarios (such as with the LIVE scenarios), and then use that type of format. It would be better for everyone, in my opinion.

Doug

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/10/2020 8:27:34 PM   
thewood1

 

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I think there is a big piece of not appreciating the work that goes into building a good scenario. Can please list some good AI vs AI scenarios and rant about poor scenario designs in another thread?

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/10/2020 9:13:23 PM   
DWReese

 

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I have nothing bad to say about anyone's scenarios. I admire anyone who wants to take the time to build one that they can share with others. That's commendable.

I am merely praising the LIVE group of scenarios (for example) because, as Gunner mentioned, they can be played from both sides, and there is a degree of randomness to them. They are excellently crafted, and are fun to play.

Doug

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/10/2020 9:17:58 PM   
kevinkins


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thewood1, what piques your interest in AI vs AI scenarios in the first place? What is this the CMO Oscar Awards? Maybe if you were less cryptic about the topic we could help you out. Asking players to suggest some good AI vs AI scenarios they may have run into over the years is like a domed fishing expedition IMHO. I think you got your answer BTW. They are few and far between other than the ones we all pay for. We can't expect Community scenarios to have great AI plans for both sides. You are going to have go through the Community pack one by one to achieve what you are asking for. We are not going to do it for you; nor have memory of a scenario from a year ago that meets your unknown specifications.

< Message edited by kevinkins -- 9/10/2020 9:23:10 PM >


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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/10/2020 9:38:30 PM   
thewood1

 

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OK, I should have lowered my expectations. I can't say why. For goodness sake. How hard is this?

1) See the thread title and have some interest
2) Open the thread
3) Think about AI vs AI potential in scenarios with plans for both sides
4a) Have suggested scenario "with a plan" for both sides
4b) Don't have an suggestion and move on

I didn't want...

4c) a suggestion to build missions
4d) a suggestion to turn off "scrub missions if human" in scenarios. Yeah, well known, but at least a productive suggestion.
4d) a rant on how scenario designers don't make scenarios for some personal taste
4e) a blindingly obvious suggestion to go through every community pack scenario. I mean really? You don't think that's what I'm trying to avoid? I already stated that was looking like an option.
4f) Repeating a suggestion already posted. Its a short thread. Maybe read it.

It was simple request. Thought I might pick up a few scenarios I hadn't thought of. But I forgot that this forum has been completely dumbed down to people posting a litany of links they scour the web for to help them think they are smart, post obvious or irrelevant questions to make them feel like they belong, or denigrating work others are doing, repeat stuff thats already been posted.

I really thought I was specific enough in my request to just get a few relevant suggestions. Luckily The dev stepped in for at least one solid suggestion.

btw, I should have known better. And after just a couple posts, I saw where it was going...

"I can already see where this is heading. I'll just go through some myself."

But even those expectations weren't low enough. How hard is this? Feel free to lock this thread. Its serving no useful purpose. Otherwise, consider it an open forum at this point.

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/10/2020 9:58:21 PM   
DWReese

 

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Didn't you recently pose another one of these open-ended questions where the responses that you received failed to "live up to" your expectations? I seem to remember something like that.

Based on your responses from before, coupled with your response here, it's obvious that you are driving yourself nuts based on "your lowered expectations."

But, then again, come to think of it, the definition of "insanity" is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. <G>

Hang in there, buddy. We're all in the same boat. Go have some rum. It's got to be 5 O'clock somewhere. <lol>

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/10/2020 10:22:27 PM   
kevinkins


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thewood1... "I didn't want.."

The freedom of expression here was based on players trying to understand what the f you are trying to articulate. You are in no position to demand how a thread flows even though you started it. Our expectations of you are getting lower and lower each post.



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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/11/2020 9:13:53 PM   
BDukes

 

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This look like battle of the dorks. I put money on the goofy looking one. Muhahahahaha!

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RE: AI vs AI scenarios - 9/11/2020 9:18:35 PM   
Sardaukar


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This went just as I expected....

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