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[Logged] Tomahawk strike on fixed maritime platform?

 
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[Logged] Tomahawk strike on fixed maritime platform? - 9/8/2020 10:25:07 AM   
cmanouser1

 

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Playing the Spratly Spat LIVE scenario, I'm noticing the tomahawk cannot target fixed maritime platforms.
Shouldn't it be able to? If not, I'd like to understand why!

Thanks.

< Message edited by apache85 -- 9/9/2020 12:26:06 AM >
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RE: Tomahawk strike on maritime platform? - 9/8/2020 10:48:15 AM   
BHughes


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Because maritime targets move, and land ones do not! The modern variants of Tomahawk do not have seeker heads able to strike mobile targets

The Tomahawk has had many variants over the years and in the past the USN did have a variant for anti-shipping stikes. Like most long-range anti-ship cruise missiles this had an active radar seeker to provide terminal guidance in the last part of its mission. Simply put the radar would activate at a predetermined point, seek for a blip, perhaps apply some logic to eliminate chaff or small-targets and home in on that blip. Land attack variants use quite a different set of guidance methods, including terrain mapping radar, optial image comparison of the target and GPS.

Its worth studying the different capabilities and limitations of weapon guidance methods as these do have a big role to play in the performance of the weapon, especially torpedoes.

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RE: Tomahawk strike on maritime platform? - 9/8/2020 10:53:55 AM   
cmanouser1

 

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Apologies, I should have been clearer: I meant fixed maritime platforms. Here is the database entry:


< Message edited by cmanouser1 -- 9/8/2020 10:57:58 AM >

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RE: Tomahawk strike on maritime platform? - 9/8/2020 11:14:46 AM   
BHughes


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Well,if its a moored oil rig in the real world I suspect you could strike it with a modern Tomahawk. But I suspect the game does not make the distinction between mobile and immobile maritime targets. Really something like an oil rig should be treated as both a surface and land target as it has the features of both and could be struck by weapons designed for both (an I/TARH guided sea skimmer like Harpoon will get a clear enough radar signal to lock on and a GPS guided JDAM or other land-attack munition could also hit it as its immobile).

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RE: Tomahawk strike on maritime platform? - 9/8/2020 12:33:15 PM   
kevinkins


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https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32483/marines-set-to-be-the-first-to-bring-back-land-based-tomahawk-missiles-post-inf-treaty

Anti-ship tomahawks might be back ... article from March but not much info since.

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RE: Tomahawk strike on maritime platform? - 9/9/2020 12:26:17 AM   
Rory Noonan

 

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Logged for investigation.

0014123

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RE: Tomahawk strike on maritime platform? - 9/9/2020 12:43:16 AM   
Rory Noonan

 

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Depending on the type of tomahawk it may not be able to navigate to the precision required for end-game engagement over water. Many versions of the Tomahawk use TERCOM navigation which relies on ground contours for navigation--which is not too handy over water. Being off by a few hundred metres is okay when crossing shore to start TERCOM navigation, but renders the weapon useless against an actual target at sea.

There is a new-ish weapon in the DB, the "BGM-109J Tomahawk Blk Va MST [Maritime Strike] -- 2023, Land-Launched, ASuW Capable" which as the name implies is launched from land and is capable against ships. It has a variety of seekers, including IR, ESM and active radar to help it distinguish its target against the ocean.

These other Tomahawks are also capable against surface targets in the DB:

RGM-109B Tomahawk TASM -- 1985-1991, ASM
UGM-109B Tomahawk TASM -- 1985-1991, VLS
UGM-109B Tomahawk TASM -- 1985-1991, TT
RGM-109I Tomahawk Blk IV MMT [Multi-Mission] -- 2015, ASuW Capable
UGM-109I Tomahawk Blk IV MMT [Multi-Mission] -- 2015, TT, ASuW Capable
UGM-109I Tomahawk Blk IV MMT [Multi-Mission] -- 2015, VLS, ASuW Capable

The point about GPS guided weapons is a good one and we'll look into whether the existing parameters should be changed to allow e.g. GPS guided bombs to hit stationary offshore platforms/rigs.

Are there any other guidance types that should be capable against offshore platforms that aren't?

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RE: Tomahawk strike on maritime platform? - 9/9/2020 9:04:18 PM   
ARCNA442

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BHughes

Because maritime targets move, and land ones do not! The modern variants of Tomahawk do not have seeker heads able to strike mobile targets

The Tomahawk has had many variants over the years and in the past the USN did have a variant for anti-shipping stikes. Like most long-range anti-ship cruise missiles this had an active radar seeker to provide terminal guidance in the last part of its mission. Simply put the radar would activate at a predetermined point, seek for a blip, perhaps apply some logic to eliminate chaff or small-targets and home in on that blip. Land attack variants use quite a different set of guidance methods, including terrain mapping radar, optial image comparison of the target and GPS.

Its worth studying the different capabilities and limitations of weapon guidance methods as these do have a big role to play in the performance of the weapon, especially torpedoes.



Actually, the TLAM Block IV has demonstrated an ability to hit moving maritime targets - it just requires third party real time targeting info rather than being fully autonomous like TASM (or the new MST) was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MtLRJw6AsY

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