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Weather in SC, WAW - 9/6/2020 10:54:00 AM   
HarrySmith

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/6/2019
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Hi guys,
The weather seems to make a huge factor in this game, particularly in the air component. Given each turn is 2 weeks and you have one turn per month, it is hard at times when your aircraft units are sitting there for up to 6 months without being able to use. Particularly in Southern Asia and the Nth European theatres. I know their is monsoon season in Asia but wouldnt there be days at least where they could be used? In saying this i understand the scale of the game but for example could there be say 100% effective in clear weather, some rain 66%, heavy rain 33% and torrential 0%. This way they attack with the reduced effectiveness. Also rain can sometimes cover an entire continent, is this really possible??? Perhaps something to consider in any future updates?
Post #: 1
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/6/2020 11:05:33 AM   
Marcinos1985

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 1/22/2020
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Weather can be very polarizing indeed. Your idea was recently mentioned in one of the threads, don't remeber which one. I think it's ok, just give player an option to use planes even in bad weather with reduced effectiveness, instead of making them expensive pawns on the board.

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Post #: 2
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/6/2020 1:48:47 PM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/6/2019
From: Elvis served 3rd Armored, Friedberg, West Germany
Status: offline
Weather is everything in this game. In recent game had 8-months of it as Allies. Either England or France had rain. Couldn't use 1-plane. Had 12+ of them in 1943.

If Germany does the "Operand Opening w/ Poland turn #1", might as well surrender against good Axis players.

(in reply to Marcinos1985)
Post #: 3
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/7/2020 9:20:46 AM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 3749
Joined: 7/22/2013
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I checked the UK's chance of rain in the Editor, and you must have been extremely unlucky as the chance of rain in a single turn is never more than 45% (and even then only briefly) being significantly less most of the time.

The UK’s chance of rain per turn is:
Spring: 25%
Late Spring: 0%
Summer 5%
Early Fall 15%
Fall 25%
Late Fall 35%
Winter 30%
Late Winter 45%

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Post #: 4
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/8/2020 8:46:48 PM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/6/2019
From: Elvis served 3rd Armored, Friedberg, West Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

I checked the UK's chance of rain in the Editor, and you must have been extremely unlucky as the chance of rain in a single turn is never more than 45% (and even then only briefly) being significantly less most of the time.

The UK’s chance of rain per turn is:
Spring: 25%
Late Spring: 0%
Summer 5%
Early Fall 15%
Fall 25%
Late Fall 35%
Winter 30%
Late Winter 45%


BillyRunacre,

I was counting "France" rain too. If it's clear in England, and France has rain, well, that's a quick turn.


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Post #: 5
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/8/2020 9:01:53 PM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/6/2019
From: Elvis served 3rd Armored, Friedberg, West Germany
Status: offline
Then again, things happen. No different than playing poker, keeps the game fun.

(in reply to ElvisJJonesRambo)
Post #: 6
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/8/2020 9:48:39 PM   
Bo Rearguard


Posts: 422
Joined: 4/7/2008
From: Basement of the Alamo
Status: offline
There have been a few games where I prayed for rain to keep enemy planes from flying. My opponent must have prayed harder. He got glorious sunshine.

_____________________________

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist ...." Union General John Sedgwick, 1864

(in reply to ElvisJJonesRambo)
Post #: 7
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/9/2020 8:11:12 PM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/6/2019
From: Elvis served 3rd Armored, Friedberg, West Germany
Status: offline
What's going on with the Rain in England/France? It's harder to do anything here, than Russia.

Conducting Operation SeaLion in couple games. England gets "clear weather", France it's Snowfest. This sucks. Opponent is getting couple turns in row, peppering my ground forces. Luftwaffen might as go sledding.

Change the weather so we can get some action.

(in reply to Bo Rearguard)
Post #: 8
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/9/2020 8:13:49 PM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/6/2019
From: Elvis served 3rd Armored, Friedberg, West Germany
Status: offline
The "Big Turns" with weather are the following:

1) Anything with England/France. Operation SeaLion, Overlord. The weather tells the story. If there's weather, I don't even bother to have a turn.
2) The opening of the game for Germans. If the Germans do the "Operand Opening" and get clear weather, bye-bye Low Countries on turn #3 & France will crumble fast.

If France/England have 25% chance of rain, that means half the turns, are pointless.

Weather is dictating games too much.

(in reply to ElvisJJonesRambo)
Post #: 9
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/9/2020 9:24:53 PM   
taffjones

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 3/25/2016
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I feel your pain Elvis.
I have a game going as the Allies and all air units have been grounded in the UK since summer it's now Dec and I need to get boots on the ground in France to help out Russia.
So its going to be ugly for the landing troops. I haven't been able to disrupt supply or damage/reduce morale or entrenchment of the Axis defenders.

Seems the rule of thumb is "The weather will always favour your opponent"

(in reply to ElvisJJonesRambo)
Post #: 10
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/9/2020 9:37:16 PM   
Cpuncher

 

Posts: 71
Joined: 3/26/2019
Status: offline
I hope the Devs can allow Paras to un-prepare (should the weather be bad) and move as usual during the same turn. Right now you set your para on prepare, and it rains, then your Para is stuck, while your comrades are desperately trying to hold a port across the channel.

Right now without a weather forecast kind of function, you can never decide if you should set your Para on prepare or not. You set it to prepare, then it rains every month. As soon as you un-prepare, then it's sunshine next month...

< Message edited by Cpuncher -- 9/9/2020 9:41:29 PM >

(in reply to taffjones)
Post #: 11
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/10/2020 12:29:54 AM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/6/2019
From: Elvis served 3rd Armored, Friedberg, West Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: taffjones

I feel your pain Elvis.
I have a game going as the Allies and all air units have been grounded in the UK since summer it's now Dec and I need to get boots on the ground in France to help out Russia.
So its going to be ugly for the landing troops. I haven't been able to disrupt supply or damage/reduce morale or entrenchment of the Axis defenders.

Seems the rule of thumb is "The weather will always favour your opponent"



My buddy from across the Pond, thanks Taffy, hope all is well with you. You're now my official weather specialist for Europe. I love to bet on Tennis, so I'll need......wait the world is in a pandemic. Wimbledon is usually in July, French Open May, Rome Master's series before that. Australian Open January.

Yeah, been in a couple "tight" games where I had to get the weather. That 8-month England/France rain ping-pong made me do stupid moves. Sent Tanks for 1943 Overlord to Greece outta boredom of Rain. Didn't matter, those boys got slaughtered, by a single Superman Panzer 5.

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Post #: 12
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/10/2020 12:36:02 AM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/6/2019
From: Elvis served 3rd Armored, Friedberg, West Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpuncher

I hope the Devs can allow Paras to un-prepare (should the weather be bad) and move as usual during the same turn. Right now you set your para on prepare, and it rains, then your Para is stuck, while your comrades are desperately trying to hold a port across the channel.

Right now without a weather forecast kind of function, you can never decide if you should set your Para on prepare or not. You set it to prepare, then it rains every month. As soon as you un-prepare, then it's sunshine next month...


Ha! Love that one, eh? All dressed up and no umbrella. Them paratroops aren't moving. Then, you get stranded 2 turns in a row, get ticked off, and un-prep, then the rain stops.

It's come to a point, where the Cookie Cutter manual should map out the weather lines. You put a paratroop on both sides of the Jet Stream, might be able to move one of them. The classic "Operand Low Counters turn #3" you gotta go North of the Jet Stream for that Tactical/Medium/1-fighter cover.

I'd actually love some battles in Vietnam & Burma, but it's a miracle if you units can get Supply 5. Then toss in monsoons. Swapping positions is more valuable than Mech Movemnt. In Burma to India, I love the one-way road trail to nowhere. Should be a sign there. "Move here, you don't have enough calories to turn around and go back".

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Post #: 13
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/10/2020 10:22:11 AM   
FOARP

 

Posts: 459
Joined: 12/24/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

What's going on with the Rain in England/France? It's harder to do anything here, than Russia.

Conducting Operation SeaLion in couple games. England gets "clear weather", France it's Snowfest. This sucks. Opponent is getting couple turns in row, peppering my ground forces. Luftwaffen might as go sledding.

Change the weather so we can get some action.


At least southern England should be the same weather zone as northern France - we typically do get the same weather more-or-less either side of the channel. Having separate weather zones in England and France basically doubles the likelihood of bad weather spoiling cross-channel air-ops.

That said, I know Elvis only ever visited the UK once (twice?) but, well... you know it does rain here quite a lot!

I think there's also a role for tech to play in the interface between air-operations and weather. Maybe we can imagine that research into bomber tech includes research on radio-homing, fog-dispersal (from memory flame-throwers were used for this, EDIT: the system was called FIDO), radar-aiming meaning they could bomb through cloud, and other technological improvements that allowed more operability in bad weather. The more you research - the more your aircraft can fly in bad weather.

All the same, WW2 aircraft simply weren't all-weather aircraft and couldn't fly in the kind of weather that even civilian aircraft now fly in easily.

< Message edited by FOARP -- 9/10/2020 10:26:46 AM >


_____________________________

American Front: a Work-in-progress CSA v USA Turtledove mod for SC:WW1 can be seen here.

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Post #: 14
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/10/2020 12:29:20 PM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/6/2019
From: Elvis served 3rd Armored, Friedberg, West Germany
Status: offline
Find yourself always bitchin' about zee weather.
Getting worked up & bustin' that keyboard ain't cool.
Wishing I was doing the Blitzkreig Bop.
London should be burning, but I' burning love.
Colonel Parker ain't my Colonel.
He ain't nobody's officer.
Made me the fool.

I'll have a blue Christmas without you
I'll be so blue just thinking about you
Decorations of red on a green Christmas tree
Won't be the same, dear, if you're not here with me




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ElvisJJonesRambo -- 9/10/2020 1:00:46 PM >

(in reply to FOARP)
Post #: 15
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/12/2020 3:20:15 AM   
James Taylor

 

Posts: 596
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Corpus Christi, Texas
Status: offline
I think HS in the first post hit upon the best way to handle this air unit grounding due to inclement weather.

To think that an air unit couldn't get off the ground for as many days as a SC turn represents is totally ludicrous.

Air units should always be able to fly sorties albeit at a reduced effectiveness according to the severity of the weather.

Lets say in a blizzard turn, perhaps 10%(0.1) times unit's effectiveness, the chance of a "hit" is very low. For heavy rain/storms, maybe 25%; rain = 50%; Overcast 75% and of course clear, no reduced effectiveness.

This goes for CVs to. Come on, in 14 days(336 hours)(median SC turn equivalent), we can't get an air mission off for a few hours, how fricken ridiculous!!!!!

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SeaMonkey

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Post #: 16
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/13/2020 1:12:29 AM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/6/2019
From: Elvis served 3rd Armored, Friedberg, West Germany
Status: offline
Go on and pray for rain
It looks like another fall
Your good friends they don't seem to help at all
When you're feeling kind of cold and small
Just look up your rainy day man
All I need to do is look up my rainy day man

--James Taylor's Rainy Day Man

(in reply to James Taylor)
Post #: 17
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/13/2020 3:32:30 PM   
Platoonist


Posts: 872
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline
A lot of intriguing ideas here. However, for the foreseeable future, I think our weather forecast is likely this old English ditty:

Whether the weather be fine,
Or whether the weather be not,
Whether the weather be cold,
Or whether the weather be hot,
We’ll weather the weather
Whatever the weather,
Whether we like it or not.

(in reply to ElvisJJonesRambo)
Post #: 18
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/13/2020 6:53:43 PM   
Bo Rearguard


Posts: 422
Joined: 4/7/2008
From: Basement of the Alamo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarrySmith

Hi guys,
The weather seems to make a huge factor in this game, particularly in the air component. Given each turn is 2 weeks and you have one turn per month, it is hard at times when your aircraft units are sitting there for up to 6 months without being able to use. Particularly in Southern Asia and the Nth European theatres. I know their is monsoon season in Asia but wouldnt there be days at least where they could be used? In saying this i understand the scale of the game but for example could there be say 100% effective in clear weather, some rain 66%, heavy rain 33% and torrential 0%.


I do like this idea. In addition, I would suggest that air missions undertaken in poor weather risk taking some operational losses in the form of lost strength points much like amphibious units do when landing in poor weather. Maybe some morale losses prior to combat too, like naval units do in poor weather.

_____________________________

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist ...." Union General John Sedgwick, 1864

(in reply to HarrySmith)
Post #: 19
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/13/2020 7:07:10 PM   
Bo Rearguard


Posts: 422
Joined: 4/7/2008
From: Basement of the Alamo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

Whether the weather be fine,
Or whether the weather be not,
Whether the weather be cold,
Or whether the weather be hot,
We’ll weather the weather
Whatever the weather,
Whether we like it or not.


That ancient tongue twister was a favorite exercise of my teacher in Acting I for training in voice-body coordination.

(in reply to Platoonist)
Post #: 20
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/13/2020 9:14:15 PM   
FOARP

 

Posts: 459
Joined: 12/24/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

I think HS in the first post hit upon the best way to handle this air unit grounding due to inclement weather.

To think that an air unit couldn't get off the ground for as many days as a SC turn represents is totally ludicrous.

Air units should always be able to fly sorties albeit at a reduced effectiveness according to the severity of the weather.

Lets say in a blizzard turn, perhaps 10%(0.1) times unit's effectiveness, the chance of a "hit" is very low. For heavy rain/storms, maybe 25%; rain = 50%; Overcast 75% and of course clear, no reduced effectiveness.

This goes for CVs to. Come on, in 14 days(336 hours)(median SC turn equivalent), we can't get an air mission off for a few hours, how fricken ridiculous!!!!!


Snow really ought to mean aircraft are grounded though. Think the Battle of the Bulge. Think Stalingrad. Agree that maybe rainy weather could be looked at though.

_____________________________

American Front: a Work-in-progress CSA v USA Turtledove mod for SC:WW1 can be seen here.

(in reply to James Taylor)
Post #: 21
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/15/2020 1:45:13 PM   
EarlyDoors

 

Posts: 125
Joined: 12/16/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

I checked the UK's chance of rain in the Editor, and you must have been extremely unlucky as the chance of rain in a single turn is never more than 45% (and even then only briefly) being significantly less most of the time.

The UK’s chance of rain per turn is:
Spring: 25%
Late Spring: 0%
Summer 5%
Early Fall 15%
Fall 25%
Late Fall 35%
Winter 30%
Late Winter 45%


I like the vagaries of the weather in this game and don't wish to see it changed but just want to get this off my chest as I've been humbled by a Sealion 1940 where it hasn't rained at all between October 1940 and April 1941

..shakes fists at rain gods...

(in reply to BillRunacre)
Post #: 22
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/15/2020 2:18:34 PM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/6/2019
From: Elvis served 3rd Armored, Friedberg, West Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EarlyDoors


quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

I checked the UK's chance of rain in the Editor, and you must have been extremely unlucky as the chance of rain in a single turn is never more than 45% (and even then only briefly) being significantly less most of the time.

The UK’s chance of rain per turn is:
Spring: 25%
Late Spring: 0%
Summer 5%
Early Fall 15%
Fall 25%
Late Fall 35%
Winter 30%
Late Winter 45%


I like the vagaries of the weather in this game and don't wish to see it changed but just want to get this off my chest as I've been humbled by a Sealion 1940 where it hasn't rained at all between October 1940 and April 1941

..shakes fists at rain gods...


You need to include the odds of France's rain. I love to gamble, and the game needs randomness. My Euro playing partner in England has confirmed, it does rain in England that much. Much as I don't wanna say, like Fonzi, "I'm wrong". The Lord of Hosts is in charge of the weather & the Universe for that matter.

Love the Early Doors. The Lizard Man didn't last long, so all of it is Early.

The time to hesitate is through
No time to wallow in the mire
Try now we can only lose
And our love become a funeral pyre

Yeah! Come on, come on, come on, come on
Now touch me, baby
Can't you see that I am not afraid?
What was that promise that you made?
Why won't you tell me what she said?

Show me the way
To the next whisky bar
Oh, don't ask why

(in reply to EarlyDoors)
Post #: 23
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/16/2020 3:41:03 PM   
Captjohn757

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 1/7/2017
Status: offline
The weather model in Strategic Command is one of the game's weaker elements; that said, some "professional" weather forecasters can't tell you what's happening outside unless they look out a window --- weather modeling is difficult. Small observation: having flown over northern Norway several times, I can attest that Narvik is not perpetually snow-bound as depicted in the game. In fact, frequently during late spring, summer and early fall it's as green as Ireland.

< Message edited by Captjohn757 -- 9/16/2020 3:42:05 PM >

(in reply to ElvisJJonesRambo)
Post #: 24
RE: Weather in SC, WAW - 9/18/2020 6:36:21 PM   
ThunderLizard2

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 2/28/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FOARP

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

What's going on with the Rain in England/France? It's harder to do anything here, than Russia.

Conducting Operation SeaLion in couple games. England gets "clear weather", France it's Snowfest. This sucks. Opponent is getting couple turns in row, peppering my ground forces. Luftwaffen might as go sledding.

Change the weather so we can get some action.


At least southern England should be the same weather zone as northern France - we typically do get the same weather more-or-less either side of the channel. Having separate weather zones in England and France basically doubles the likelihood of bad weather spoiling cross-channel air-ops.

That said, I know Elvis only ever visited the UK once (twice?) but, well... you know it does rain here quite a lot!

I think there's also a role for tech to play in the interface between air-operations and weather. Maybe we can imagine that research into bomber tech includes research on radio-homing, fog-dispersal (from memory flame-throwers were used for this, EDIT: the system was called FIDO), radar-aiming meaning they could bomb through cloud, and other technological improvements that allowed more operability in bad weather. The more you research - the more your aircraft can fly in bad weather.

All the same, WW2 aircraft simply weren't all-weather aircraft and couldn't fly in the kind of weather that even civilian aircraft now fly in easily.


This seems like the most pragmatic solution if you can sync N. France and Southern England. This has the most impact on gameplay as it effects Sealion and Overlord.

Elvis - great verses!

(in reply to FOARP)
Post #: 25
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