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Restricted, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 2:17:32 AM   
NiclasCage

 

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Can someone please explain the difference between units with [S] and [R] behind their name?

I thought [S] meant Static attached and [R] meant restricted, but I have several LCUs with both [S] and [R] behind their names. Have i misunderstood something?

edit;

I thought these two meant practically the same thing, which I see is incorrect. But now I have a new question. Unless I'm still mistaken, static attached units should be able to change their HQ. However, the 3rd US Infantry Division in Tacoma has its HQ greyed out. In the editor this unit is NOT restricted, just marked as Static Attached. What's going on here?

< Message edited by NiclasCage -- 9/2/2020 5:48:49 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Restricted, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 6:29:08 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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As I understand it.

(S)tatic means they cannot move.

(R)estricted means they have controls on which HQ they can be attached to and therefore were they move too. Although you can march them anywhere on connected land the game prevents you loading them onto ship or air transport hence the oft used house rule. There are two types, in yellow you can pay PPs to buy them out of these restrictions, in white they are permanent.

Note I don't beleive the filter on the gound unit list are named correctly. It says Static attached but you don't just get static units you also get white restricted. I also think that at some stage in the games evolution the graphics/names/use of (S)(R) became confused hence some of the oddities that appear like the phrase static attached. Most are not static, just restricted on their HQ and hence movement ability.


< Message edited by Chris21wen -- 9/2/2020 6:34:37 AM >

(in reply to NiclasCage)
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RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 6:29:30 AM   
Alfred

 

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Technically, the data on restrictions refers only to the HQ immediately up the food chain. This is because the restriction status applies to the HQ but the impact of the restriction status of the HQ technically extends also to it's subordinate units (whether the subordinate is or is not an HQ unit itself) one level below the HQ. A non HQ unit cannot be assigned to another non HQ unit.

An HQ can therefore be:

1. Restricted

(a) it is currently attached to a Restricted HQ, often to itself as these HQs are commonly found at the top of the food chain (aka a Command HQ)
(b) can be reassigned to a different HQ, however if it is a top of the food chain (aka a Command HQ) it cannot be reassigned to an HQ lower in the food chain (aka lower than a Command HQ)
(c) cannot be loaded on to ships
(d) can be moved by air (excluding any static devices) within its Restricted Command Area
(e) if reassigned to an Unrestricted HQ, it's subordinate units do not automatically acquire Unrestricted status. To acquire Unrestricted status, the subordinate units will need to be individually and manually assigned to an Unrestricted HQ


2. Temporary Restricted

(a) it is currently attached to a Restricted HQ
(b) can be reassigned to a different HQ
(c) cannot be loaded on to ships whilst it remains attached to a Restricted HQ
(d) can be moved by air (excluding any static devices) within its Restricted Command Area
(e) if changed to an Unrestricted HQ, it's own subordinated units automatically change status to Unrestricted


3. Static Restricted

(a) it is currently attached to a Restricted HQ
(b) cannot be reassigned to a different HQ
(c) cannot be loaded on to ships
(d) can be moved by air (excluding any static devices) within its Restricted Command Area



4. Unrestricted

No restrictions on movement to another Command Area.



Due to coding reasons, air units on board ships may be attached to "Independent". It confers unrestricted status to the air unit. This is not an HQ which can be assigned to an air unit by the player.


Alfred

(in reply to NiclasCage)
Post #: 3
RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 6:40:04 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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As usual Alfred has a much better description on what's happening, should have waited.

(in reply to Alfred)
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RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 7:24:10 AM   
NiclasCage

 

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Thank you.

Still, I'm not entirely satisfied with my understanding of things.

At Tacoma I have the 122nd USAAF Base Force (ENG-unit) attached to West Coast HQ, which is a Static restricted HQ. This unit has an [S] behind its name when I hover over it, which I assume means that it too is static restricted.

Also at Tacoma, I have the 144th FA Rgt (ART-unit) attached to West Coast HQ. This unit has a [S] and a [R] behind its name, which I'm assuming means Static restriced AND Restricted (Temp or Perm). Why would a Static restricted unit have an additional restriction?

Another unit at Tacoma is the 3rd Infantry Division. Again attached to West Coast HQ, and has an [S] behind its name. No [R] in sight on this one.

Yet another unit here is the 41st Infantry Division, also attached to West Coast HQ, but is unrestricted (no letters at all behind the unit's name and I can change it's HQ).

The two ARM-units at Tacoma have both got [S] and [R]. Still attached to West Coast HQ.


So, 2 questions here. Why has the 41st Infantry Division not inherited the restrictions of its HQ unit? And why does some of the units with [S] (which I'm assuming means Static Restricted) also have [R], while others don't? As far as I can tell from your post, a permanent or temporary restriction on an already static restricted unit doesn't add any constraints.

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 5
RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 7:36:35 AM   
Sardaukar


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Some of it is for historical reasons.

At start, game tries to imitate history as close as possible. This of course goes to hell after first turn...when players are able to give orders.



_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to NiclasCage)
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RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 8:05:30 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NiclasCage

..So, 2 questions here. Why has the 41st Infantry Division not inherited the restrictions of its HQ unit? And why does some of the units with [S] (which I'm assuming means Static Restricted) also have [R], while others don't? As far as I can tell from your post, a permanent or temporary restriction on an already static restricted unit doesn't add any constraints.


Who says the 41st hasn't inherited its HQ restrictions.

It is the restrictions next to the name of the "parent" HQ which counts.

Units which are static are stuck to their current location because they have a static device. They are static. Don't go conflating different concepts.

I provide the rules. AE requires an intelligent application of the rules.

Alfred

(in reply to NiclasCage)
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RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 8:19:22 AM   
Sardaukar


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Just to simplify.

If Unit HQ is shown yellow, you can change with Political Points.

If it's grey, you cannot.

Game-wise, that is all you need to know.

Why...that'd need you to do 100 hrs of online search and buy 10 books.



_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Alfred)
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RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 10:46:19 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Just to simplify.

If Unit HQ is shown yellow, you can change with Political Points.

If it's grey, you cannot.

Game-wise, that is all you need to know.

Why...that'd need you to do 100 hrs of online search and buy 10 books.




+1

KISS (Keep It Simple Stu___)


_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 9
RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 12:33:19 PM   
NiclasCage

 

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Alfred, I am not talking about static units. None of the units in my previous post are static, but some of them have the nomenclature [S] behind their name in the ground unit list. Some have [R]. Some have both. I should just rephrase my question at this point. What does [S] behind the unit name in the Ground Unit List mean? And what does [R] mean?

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 10
RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 2:07:32 PM   
Trugrit


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From: North Carolina
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I think Alfred has Explained it very well.
There can be two symbols on the unit and two types of brackets.





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(in reply to NiclasCage)
Post #: 11
RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 2:51:35 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 16047
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: NiclasCage

Alfred, I am not talking about static units. None of the units in my previous post are static, but some of them have the nomenclature [S] behind their name in the ground unit list. Some have [R]. Some have both. I should just rephrase my question at this point. What does [S] behind the unit name in the Ground Unit List mean? And what does [R] mean?

IIRC, the Samoan Marines at Pago Pago is a Static Restricted unit. Before I understood about static devices, I paid precious PP to buy out the unit to Pacific Fleet/POA and found I couldn't move it anyway. Then I noticed the "static device" in the TOE. I think some radars and listening devices are also considered static devices. I am not sure if you could fly out portions of a unit that is [S] but not [R].

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to NiclasCage)
Post #: 12
RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 3:53:24 PM   
Trugrit


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From: North Carolina
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: NiclasCage

Alfred, I am not talking about static units. None of the units in my previous post are static, but some of them have the nomenclature [S] behind their name in the ground unit list. Some have [R]. Some have both. I should just rephrase my question at this point. What does [S] behind the unit name in the Ground Unit List mean? And what does [R] mean?

IIRC, the Samoan Marines at Pago Pago is a Static Restricted unit. Before I understood about static devices, I paid precious PP to buy out the unit to Pacific Fleet/POA and found I couldn't move it anyway. Then I noticed the "static device" in the TOE. I think some radars and listening devices are also considered static devices. I am not sure if you could fly out portions of a unit that is [S] but not [R].


Yep,

I did the same when I was a young Puppy.

The Text can be yellow and you can still screw the pooch.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 13
RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 5:15:49 PM   
Sardaukar


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From: Finland/Israel
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This is the WitP-AE forum.

There can be only but one.

Ask and be answered.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Trugrit)
Post #: 14
RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 6:02:29 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 9180
Joined: 11/16/2015
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Did you try loading the non-static devices into a amphibious task force?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

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(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 15
RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 6:25:58 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 16047
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Did you try loading the non-static devices into a amphibious task force?

You cannot separate out the Static Devices so the unit as a whole will not load amphibiously. I tried before I noticed the Static Devices.
However, airlift will sometimes move parts of a unit between bases with compatible HQs, so that is a possibility that could be tried. Load cost of unit devices is also a factor.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 16
RE: Restriced, [S] and [R] - 9/2/2020 7:22:50 PM   
RangerJoe


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Joined: 11/16/2015
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I asked about ships because the load cost of some of that equipment is too high. If you could load it, I know how might end up relocating the entire unit but that would be a permanent move.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 17
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