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Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/1/2020 1:26:46 AM   
Richard III


Posts: 710
Joined: 10/24/2005
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I use to play III a lot and was IMHO much more intuitive. I got IV because I thought it was mostly a cosmetic upgrade, but not so it seems, or perhaps I`m just getting older and dumber or expect it to work like Garry`s WITE.

An example, I want to do a Directive 21 historical start.( even though I missed June 22 )

As in the real deal I want to do:

1: An artillery bombardment.
2. Air attacks on the Red airbases to achieve air superiority to protect the advances of the land units.
3. Inf. attacks to push back the Red Infantry units with a view to open up the fronts to the Panzers.
4. Push the Panzers deep.

How hard can that be in a war game ? Again, it might be me, but surely you should be able to issue _universal_ orders to the air groups for 1. air base attacks to attrite the Red air, 2.air superiority to
protect the ground units. 3. Ground attack. That`s it, that's all the air combat units could do.

Then click on single/double ground units to open up the front.

But for the life of me I cannot figure out how to do that in any simple sequence . I find the manual useless for the actual gameplay and lacking any tutorial, did I miss it. The uTube tutorials fill in information on the interface, but seem to lack any sequence of play for the human player, as in do A, B, and C and you get D..... I don`t mean this to be a rant, but I would love to see how to do my simple D21 opening ?





_____________________________

“History would be a wonderful thing – if it were only true.”

¯ Leo Tolstoy
Post #: 1
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/1/2020 2:37:06 AM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 13025
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

I use to play III a lot and was IMHO much more intuitive. I got IV because I thought it was mostly a cosmetic upgrade, but not so it seems, or perhaps I`m just getting older and dumber or expect it to work like Garry`s WITE.

An example, I want to do a Directive 21 historical start.( even though I missed June 22 )

As in the real deal I want to do:

1: An artillery bombardment.
2. Air attacks on the Red airbases to achieve air superiority to protect the advances of the land units.
3. Inf. attacks to push back the Red Infantry units with a view to open up the fronts to the Panzers.
4. Push the Panzers deep.

How hard can that be in a war game ? Again, it might be me, but surely you should be able to issue _universal_ orders to the air groups for 1. air base attacks to attrite the Red air, 2.air superiority to
protect the ground units. 3. Ground attack. That`s it, that's all the air combat units could do.

Then click on single/double ground units to open up the front.

But for the life of me I cannot figure out how to do that in any simple sequence . I find the manual useless for the actual gameplay and lacking any tutorial, did I miss it. The uTube tutorials fill in information on the interface, but seem to lack any sequence of play for the human player, as in do A, B, and C and you get D..... I don`t mean this to be a rant, but I would love to see how to do my simple D21 opening ?


Make sure you set Menu Show Delay to 0 or 1.

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 2
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/1/2020 4:03:45 PM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 1986
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
Heh, welcome to our world! I too wish that there were some "universal" commands,
e.g. "dig in ALL" or such, and I don't know how WiTE works,

but some things that help me are,
sorting OOB list by Icon type helps me locate engineers and such;
artillery, use the "HQ" button on the "Maps" tab, reveals artillery units / HQ on the map button for that,
and I use A key to go to air units report and easier to locate air units that way

Click on the air unit label in that, then press "5" key on numpad to center map on that unit;

Also all the keyboard shortcuts to use---
"." to disembark / locate train units,
"L" changes loss tolerance, shift+L changes loss tolerance for whole stack,
"D" digs in.
"T" changes to tactical reserve ..... there is a whole list in manual

TOAW takes a LOT of patience ... and a bit of masochism too,
essentially, to me, it is much like just a "virtual"
pen-and-paper / chits / map on the kitchen table,
with an automatic dice-roller / combat resolver built in.

I hope this helps!





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Hellen_slith -- 9/1/2020 4:10:56 PM >

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 3
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/1/2020 9:19:23 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 4908
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

I use to play III a lot and was IMHO much more intuitive. I got IV because I thought it was mostly a cosmetic upgrade, but not so it seems, or perhaps I`m just getting older and dumber or expect it to work like Garry`s WITE.

An example, I want to do a Directive 21 historical start.( even though I missed June 22 )

As in the real deal I want to do:

1: An artillery bombardment.
2. Air attacks on the Red airbases to achieve air superiority to protect the advances of the land units.
3. Inf. attacks to push back the Red Infantry units with a view to open up the fronts to the Panzers.
4. Push the Panzers deep.

How hard can that be in a war game ? Again, it might be me, but surely you should be able to issue _universal_ orders to the air groups for 1. air base attacks to attrite the Red air, 2.air superiority to
protect the ground units. 3. Ground attack. That`s it, that's all the air combat units could do.

Then click on single/double ground units to open up the front.

But for the life of me I cannot figure out how to do that in any simple sequence . I find the manual useless for the actual gameplay and lacking any tutorial, did I miss it. The uTube tutorials fill in information on the interface, but seem to lack any sequence of play for the human player, as in do A, B, and C and you get D..... I don`t mean this to be a rant, but I would love to see how to do my simple D21 opening ?


You have actually asked enough to fill several posts.

Air unit have to be manually assigned to missions. S ground support, A air superiority, I interdiction, like that. So if you wanted to attack air fields you have to make the air unit the active unit by clicking on it. Then you put the cursor over the target hex and depending on the target type you will get various choices with a right click on the target hex depending on what is in the target hex. Bridges, airfields, units, etc.

As for wanting TOAW to work like GG WitE...never going to happen. WitE uses a 'combat as movement' theory. You move a unit and attack and then can move another unit where the last one attacked and move through that hex and attack another unit. If you've played TOAW before and don't remember how it is played then you had better stick to a tutorial or small scenario until you get a handle on it because movement and combat is not as simplistic as GG WitE.

So to avoid having to describe the entire game try these: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=TOAW+youtube&qpvt=TOAW+youtube&FORM=VDRE

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Wearing blinders and earplugs everything you do is correct.

(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 4
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/2/2020 1:52:54 AM   
Richard III


Posts: 710
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
Guys a very sincere thanks for the advice, the pointing to the uTube tutorials. I`ve been going through the manual again and I`m restarting and will see if I can it to work. I found an old 2017 tutorial by Gen Lemay and it`s a huge help

Help me with a small issue, when I click on a unit to order an attack or movement, if it has any movement points left, how to deselect it ? nether a right or left mouse click works, and I end up sending it across the map.

Thanks again
Rich

_____________________________

“History would be a wonderful thing – if it were only true.”

¯ Leo Tolstoy

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 5
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/2/2020 1:57:52 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 4908
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
A unit is selected at all times. There is no way to have zero units selected.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Wearing blinders and earplugs everything you do is correct.

(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 6
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/2/2020 2:05:33 AM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 1986
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III


Help me with a small issue, when I click on a unit to order an attack or movement, if it has any movement points left, how to deselect it ? nether a right or left mouse click works, and I end up sending it across the map.




Select another unit (pref. one that cannot move or has zero movement points left) ... In large scenes, I many times use the first unit in the OOB as my "Bench Unit" ... go Press "O" (for oob-units) and scroll to top. Or just click on any unit in that list w/ 0 movement points... or you can use "N" key, which cycles to the Next Unit ... lots of ways to "deselect" but you will still be selected to some unit. I hope this helps! PS if you click on a unit in the OOB-Units list, you ALSO have to press 5 on the numpad to center map on that unit.

Also, if I remember coreectly, on that "live" unit, press T (puts it in Tactical reserve, I think that will "stick" it in place for you until you want it in Mobile status again

Good luck!

< Message edited by Hellen_slith -- 9/2/2020 2:10:26 AM >

(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 7
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/3/2020 3:11:44 AM   
Richard III


Posts: 710
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
Starting to get there... However doing D 21 against the Red AI I`m getting a 30 minute AI turn, with going in and out of black screens. Is this normal ??

_____________________________

“History would be a wonderful thing – if it were only true.”

¯ Leo Tolstoy

(in reply to Hellen_slith)
Post #: 8
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/3/2020 2:32:10 PM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 1986
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
Sometimes. There are some things you can do that will help speed the AI move.
Here is what I do:

Before end of my move, I "hide" ALL of the "mini panes", also hide place names and airfields not "floating" ....
and also set map to "2 D -- Small"
Will speed move and should help mitigate the blanking out screen.
You can even "minimized" the entire screen, will still go. Just maximized again to check every 10 minutes or so to see if it is done.

Here is how map looks for me during AI move. If you forget, just click anywhere n map during AI move,
make the map changes (hide cities etc. / make 2D small size) then do "PLAY -- COMPUTER AXIS" to start it again.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 9
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/4/2020 5:02:22 PM   
Richard III


Posts: 710
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
Thanks you H_Slith very kind and helpful and a pic always works ! Starting to bring back happy memories of being lost in TOAOW III

I actually have read the manual again, given the diversity of units in D21, trying to understand the Axis HQ functions. Manual says Division HQ should be near or with it`s combat units. I notice when clicking on a Division HQ a red hexagon appears covering about 2-3 hexs. I guess that is area of command ?


The thing is the huge number of Corps HQ in the D21 scenario, is there a organizational table for them ? or does it even matter as far their locations ?
Thanks all !!

_____________________________

“History would be a wonderful thing – if it were only true.”

¯ Leo Tolstoy

(in reply to Hellen_slith)
Post #: 10
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/4/2020 7:07:31 PM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 1986
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
Depends :)

HQ / Corps HQ provide boost to supply to units adjacent (if I recall corect)
and of course can provide long range arty suuport if ranged and not in mobile deploy mode

As to support levels, who they can best support, depends on "support scope"

in pic below this HQ can support anyone good ... is "free support"
as shown in Formation Report window (press F for window I think is shortcut"

other support scope mighht be "formation support" or "army support"
can sometimes depend on icon color scheme

see in manual about supply section, and about support scope levels
sorry I do not have manual in front of me to tell where section that is






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Hellen_slith -- 9/4/2020 7:10:07 PM >

(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 11
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/5/2020 12:37:44 AM   
dduckett

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 7/26/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

doing D 21 against the Red AI I`m getting a 30 minute AI turn, with going in and out of black screens. Is this normal ??


I'll add: I toggle capslock on during AI turns to speed it up significantly, though that seems to cut animations and you may miss AI moves that way.

< Message edited by dduckett -- 9/5/2020 1:01:20 AM >

(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 12
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/5/2020 7:12:21 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9426
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

I notice when clicking on a Division HQ a red hexagon appears covering about 2-3 hexs. I guess that is area of command ?

Is that the Radius of its' Artillery Capability? Look in the Unit Panel to see if Range = 3 [or 2]. Because there isn't an Area of Command. So you might be seeing the Range Circles.

(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 13
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/5/2020 7:15:26 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9426
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

lack any sequence of play for the human player, as in do A, B, and C and you get D.....

There are so many different designs and scales that one Sequence might not work well for all. Maybe look for some of Larry's [Fulkerson] posts on D21 Sequences of Play.

(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 14
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/8/2020 5:21:08 PM   
carll11


Posts: 558
Joined: 11/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith

Depends :)

HQ / Corps HQ provide boost to supply to units adjacent (if I recall corect)
and of course can provide long range arty suuport if ranged and not in mobile deploy mode

As to support levels, who they can best support, depends on "support scope"

in pic below this HQ can support anyone good ... is "free support"
as shown in Formation Report window (press F for window I think is shortcut"

other support scope mighht be "formation support" or "army support"
can sometimes depend on icon color scheme

see in manual about supply section, and about support scope levels
sorry I do not have manual in front of me to tell where section that is







holy mother of....how did your units example- the HQ unit (26-32) and that hvy. SS inf. unit (34-46) wind up with huge off/def. strengths?

(in reply to Hellen_slith)
Post #: 15
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/8/2020 5:26:02 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 13025
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: carll11

holy mother of....how did your units example- the HQ unit (26-32) and that hvy. SS inf. unit (34-46) wind up with huge off/def. strengths?


He's probably displaying "Stack" strength - the strength of the entire stack.

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to carll11)
Post #: 16
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/8/2020 5:51:46 PM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 1986
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
Yes, counter values: there is tutorial about this somewhere, will try to find.

Go to Player Options, go to page two, set default counter values to "advanced", then you can uses that button to click through and show various counter values .... as in picture below.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 17
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/8/2020 6:01:03 PM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 1986
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
also see this thread

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4380544

esp. @ post #12 etc.

(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 18
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 9/14/2020 5:00:33 PM   
carll11


Posts: 558
Joined: 11/26/2009
Status: offline
Thank you both Gentlemen...

(in reply to Hellen_slith)
Post #: 19
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 10/5/2020 3:03:20 PM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2074
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline
I have a question. The HQ range, what is it far and what is the realistic range to set for HQ's. I have looked in the manual, and I have not found anything that explains it well. Thanks

(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 20
RE: Completely Lost in TOAW 4 - 10/6/2020 12:40:25 AM   
FelixCulpa


Posts: 80
Joined: 8/17/2015
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The HQ range you speak of is actually for an artillery sub-unit of the HQ. Select the HQ, then "U" Unit Report. Then select the artillery sub-unit. The range for the artillery unit can be expanded to 150% of the base value but the resultant bombardment will be at 50% strength. A guide on Steam details this.

< Message edited by FelixCulpa -- 10/6/2020 12:41:16 AM >

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 21
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