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Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A)

 
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Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/16/2020 12:49:58 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19783
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: online
Lokasenna.

AndyMac updated Scenario 2 modified by me with Lokasenna's input (hat tip to Bullwinkle for the mk14 heavy lifting):

I think this is the modification list:


Kongo class BB have 425 troop and 200 cargo capacity
A6M8 does not upgrade to the Sam for r&d
All size 6 forts in dot bases set to 0

3 New Mk14 torpedoes with lower dud percentages available after 4/42, 8/42, 5/43. The upgrades for the subs is extended by 1 day. After 1/44 the subs will upgrade back to standard Mk14 torpedoes. 70%, 60%, and 30%

In stock, the dud rates are 80% until 01/01/1943, at which point they drop to 70% dud and on 09/01/1943 they drop to 10% (unless their dud rate was 20% or under already).

The above changes would result in the following, assuming subs were brought back to a suitable port and upgraded (realize that not all sub classes upgrade at earliest available modified mk14 torpedo dates): 80% duds until 04/42; 70% duds from until 08/42; 60% duds until 01/43; 40% duds until 05/43; 30% duds until 09/43; 10% duds from then onwards.

I had the option of extending the Mogami class float plane conversion to all Mogami class ships, and to do the same with the Kongo Maru class to AMCs but I elected not too as I got tired of working in the editor.

HR: None
1 day turns
PDU off

I promised Lokasenna minimum three turns a week, and he is ok with that. I am not really that enthused to do the first turn, perhaps I will do a minimal turn. Not sure what I am doing and where I am going at this point.






Post #: 1
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/16/2020 2:05:38 PM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 217
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: online
Well , Manilla looks like a very juicy target for first day strikes maybe even with KB. Good luck i have no doubt you will do great in this game

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/16/2020 5:57:09 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8209
Joined: 11/16/2015
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Bomb Manila's port with Betties and Nells at 1,000 feet with torpedo ordinance selected but no torpedoes available. As far as I remember, there are no 40mm on Luzon or very few. 800 kg bombs hitting subs . . .

Use the Sallies broken down to hit the three airfields, aided by some Zeros bombing as well. Bomb hits on airfield are significantly increases for December 1941 . . .

Use the Pearl Harbor strike Zeros to bomb the airfields. I use 10,000 foot altitude but 1,000 feet could work as well but I have not tested it for the flak damage.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 3
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/16/2020 6:07:25 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6247
Joined: 9/28/2006
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No no no. Deliver some sushi to a gulag. You know the inmates will appreciate the delivery. Just make sure this time it is a scheduled delivery with all the trimmings (soy sauce, wasabi etc) rather than a quick drop off from the stern.

Alfred

< Message edited by Alfred -- 8/16/2020 6:09:07 PM >

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 4
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/16/2020 6:58:40 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8209
Joined: 11/16/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

No no no. Deliver some sushi to a gulag. You know the inmates will appreciate the delivery. Just make sure this time it is a scheduled delivery with all the trimmings (soy sauce, wasabi etc) rather than a quick drop off from the stern.

Alfred


+1,

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 5
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/17/2020 3:54:21 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19783
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: online
Normally bomb Pearl Harbor with Zeroes at 9k. 13K is the best altitude to bomb after Dec 7th with Kates...Almost no losses.

Worked out my r&d plan priorities and have just started entering them.

Still haven't decided on a strategy yet.


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 6
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/17/2020 5:02:23 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8209
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
I don't know what changes that were made, I am playing 2v6 right now against the computer. I have only sunk 11 BBs and one BC, only 2 at Pearl Harbour. The big E and the Lady Lex are also gone. I am getting better at being more aggressive early but I need to start playing more as if I am facing a human opponent.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 7
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/17/2020 5:44:06 PM   
Mundy


Posts: 2857
Joined: 6/26/2002
From: Neenah
Status: online
I've never been a fan of the "Bomb Manila" approach.

Even if you kill a bunch, the Allies are still rolling in subs by 1943. Drops in the ocean, it seems to me.

Wreck as much as you can at Pearl.

_____________________________


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Post #: 8
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/17/2020 5:58:51 PM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 217
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mundy

I've never been a fan of the "Bomb Manila" approach.

Even if you kill a bunch, the Allies are still rolling in subs by 1943. Drops in the ocean, it seems to me.

Wreck as much as you can at Pearl.

It has ups and downs ;
Ups ; You are deleting %10 allied submarine fleet in 1 day at port , allies dont get too many sub replacements in 42 , gains you time to train a proper ASW air fleet , KB being close to DEI opens up early Indian Ocean Raid option or could be used in DEI
Downs; Pearl is untouched , Marshalls and Truk is exposed to allied Carrier force

(in reply to Mundy)
Post #: 9
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/17/2020 7:42:09 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8209
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
Use the LBA on Formosa to hit Manila's port.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 10
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/18/2020 3:08:39 PM   
Bif1961


Posts: 1878
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline
The upside of bombing PH over historic in the game is you can sink Pennsylvania, which was actually in dry dock and unsinkable, and once you do sink a BB in PH they can't be raised and repaired. That gives you an extra incentive to go after the old BBs so they less can be used as shore bombardments mainstays. I have bombed manila with the KB and normally PH and I haven't noticed the advantage of bombing Manila unless it puts the KB in position to further operations in the region and saves sail time.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 11
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/18/2020 9:26:30 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19783
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: online
Haven't fleshed out the numbers yet, but basic r&d looks like this (I have to move some around because I overshot I think). Shinden is an obvious choice to gain r&d for models arriving earlier, could cut back a bit on the FB too.

Emphasis on getting Sam, Frank and A6M8 early. Probably go A6M2 to A6M3a to A6M8. In this game the Tojo IIa arrives in 9/42, need it sooner, and it uses the Ha34.

Late war is Shinden and Ki94. Plan to move finished r&d to Ki94, maybe Grace????

Judy early. No rules means no problem flying the Judy 4.

NF: Zero to resize groups. Primary if we get that far will be Frances, and I would like the Peggy D. Got scrounge up two more factories.

Don't even try to talk me into Tony, they suck and super suck in stock.

George and Jack: I like them both and will put something into them, but not much. More into George than Jack. But the A6M8 will act like a very early George I hope.

As much as I can in Frances and Peggy T, especially Peggy T. Lilly DB one.

No Helen, Sally, maybe 1 Dinah NF, No patrols, no recon,

I would love to find space for Grace instead of Jill...but Grace really needs 5 times the r&d of Jill. But I like the Judy 4 better than both of them tbh. I need to think on Grace a bit...talking myself into her. Uh oh. Better stop now.





Plane r&d

12 Sam
10 Frank
10 Rufe

10 Shinden
5 Ki 94

10 Tojo IIa

5 Nick A
5 Randy FB

10 Judy
1 Jill

2 Irving S
2 Nick D
2 Frances S
1 A6M S

? Frances
? Peggy T Can I get to 5 somehow?
1 Lilly DB

To go along with this plane r&d we will be accelerating our carriers somewhat ridiculously at the cost of subs and battleships. I think I am going to have to expand naval factories to do it, as there are quite a few additional ships in the build que.

What do you guys think?

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 12
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/18/2020 9:30:16 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19783
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: online
I think I have come up with an opening strategy. Probably will keep it mum for now. Need to explore it more. I will reveal it prior to finishing the first turn I think.

I still haven't thought out all the ramifications of no house rules. China will be swamped by tons of troops from Manchuko off the bat, so odds are the Chinese all retreat to Burma asap. How fast can the Allies use their restricted troops without spending PP?

What does India look like with 50 Chinese Corps in it?





< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/18/2020 10:01:22 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 13
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/18/2020 9:44:45 PM   
Cheesesteak


Posts: 291
Joined: 11/8/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Haven't fleshed out the numbers yet, but basic r&d looks like this (I have to move some around because I overshot I think). Shinden is an obvious choice to gain r&d for models arriving earlier, could cut back a bit on the FB too.

Emphasis on getting Sam, Frank and A6M8 early. Probably go A6M2 to A6M3a to A6M8. In this game the Tojo IIa arrives in 9/42, need it sooner, and it uses the Ha34.

Late war is Shinden and Ki94. Plan to move finished r&d to Ki94, maybe Grace????

Judy early. No rules means no problem flying the Judy 4.

NF: Zero to resize groups. Primary if we get that far will be Frances, and I would like the Peggy D. Got scrounge up two more factories.

Don't even try to talk me into Tony, they suck and super suck in stock.

George and Jack: I like them both and will put something into them, but not much. More into George than Jack. But the A6M8 will act like a very early George I hope.

As much as I can in Frances and Peggy T, especially Peggy T. Lilly DB one.

No Helen, Sally, maybe 1 Dinah NF, No patrols, no recon,

I would love to find space for Grace instead of Jill...but Grace really needs 5 times the r&d of Jill. But I like the Judy 4 better than both of them tbh. I need to think on Grace a bit...talking myself into her. Uh oh. Better stop now.





Plane r&d

12 Sam
10 Frank
10 Rufe

10 Shinden
5 Ki 94

10 Tojo IIa

5 Nick A
5 Randy FB

10 Judy
1 Jill

2 Irving S
2 Nick D
2 Frances S
1 A6M S

? Frances
? Peggy T Can I get to 5 somehow?
1 Lilly DB

To go along with this plane r&d we will be accelerating our carriers somewhat ridiculously at the cost of subs and battleships. I think I am going to have to expand naval factories to do it, as there are quite a few additional ships in the build que.

What do you guys think?


Lacking late-game experience, this is more helpful for me than anything I could provide back to you. I am curious - what attribute(s) place the Sam so far above the later George models?

Would you consider using the Shinden R&D to boost something sooner (like the Tojo), then switch to shinden later? I'm sure there are excellent reasons (supplies) not to do so. More curious, since the R&D would theoretically be sitting at 0(30) for the first two years.

I'm 100% with you on the D4, and have an unsubstantiated belief that it's better to have both torps and DBs in an attack.

_____________________________

"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 14
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/18/2020 9:57:18 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19783
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak


Lacking late-game experience, this is more helpful for me than anything I could provide back to you. I am curious - what attribute(s) place the Sam so far above the later George models?

Would you consider using the Shinden R&D to boost something sooner (like the Tojo), then switch to shinden later? I'm sure there are excellent reasons (supplies) not to do so. More curious, since the R&D would theoretically be sitting at 0(30) for the first two years.

I'm 100% with you on the D4, and have an unsubstantiated belief that it's better to have both torps and DBs in an attack.


Sam is the most important fighter to r&d early for Japan, if you don't lose the KB prior to its arrival. If you do lose the KB early, well, then it is only in the top 5. Early arriving Sams swing the balance of CV encounters back to Japan's favor for a small window...

Jills have a tough time delivering hits in late game due to Allied flak. Graces are better but so costly.

Factories will repair, albeit slowly so the Shinden factories will be around 5-10 after a year plus or minus. The lucky factories tend to stay lucky and reach 30 which in turn starts decreasing the arrival date which eventually helps the unlucky factories.

(in reply to Cheesesteak)
Post #: 15
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/18/2020 10:00:54 PM   
Cheesesteak


Posts: 291
Joined: 11/8/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline
Thanks!

_____________________________

"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 16
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/19/2020 3:12:03 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19783
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: online
First monkey wrench...

The Rufe arrives in Jan of 1942. A blessing and a slight hiccup.

So I cherry picked the bases with supply and set all to 22. I should be able to add a day or two at the end of the month. Not sure what to do with Maebashi? They will probably go into production.

The Rufe does upgrade to A6M5 with an arrival date of 8/43.

I probably want to make 30 Rufes a month, but I need to check tracker to see how many squadrons can upgrade to the Rufe early...I plan to put Rufes on the CS and use them for low CAP.










Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/19/2020 3:14:09 AM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 17
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/19/2020 3:27:38 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19783
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: online
So, then the next plane I want asap is Tojo IIa. So I cherry pick those r&d facilities with supply. Tojo IIa comes in 9/42, which is so long away. I need 10 factories here too. Argh, I generally never put more than 5 in her.

Well, that means once I get the Tojo IIc (if I go for it which is most likely) it will free up r&d for the final generation fighters.

I also need to crank up the Ha 34 engines to get the 500 engine bonus....when the first factory reaches fully repaired.

I would like to make 150(?) a month normally, and...so I am thinking of having one big factory at 150, and letting the other 9 jump into the IIc and then something else. Since I am not going Oscar at all, I bet I will need 220 minimum, and if I am going 220, maybe I should go 300 right off the bat?

The fighter will be the primary Army fighter till June/July of 1943 when the Frank A comes, but it will always be useful if not optimal.

So, since this is scenario 2...I am thinking one size 300, 9 size 30 plus engine bonus. I might get the fighter 5 months early maybe?


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 18
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/19/2020 3:39:56 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19783
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: online
Continuing my logic, next up is Judy and then Nick...then I don't really care about starting supply and will worry a bit more about location...I would like to have relatively safe factories for Frank and Sam.




(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 19
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/19/2020 3:51:06 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19783
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: online
Having done the R&D for the Rufe, I decide to look at what starts...one squadron on a very serious AMC...an AndyMac Q ship. Oh my.

I knew she was here, having run into her in my other game.

Obviously, this squadron needs to get to a CS and be resized, where this early will make potent added aerial defense for the mini kb that normally prowls the SRA.

She starts in the Marshalls and is loaded with troops for the Wake Invasion.






A really super impressive ship. What was Andy thinking?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/19/2020 3:53:22 AM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 20
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/19/2020 4:18:03 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8209
Joined: 11/16/2015
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You might want to check the map, I don't know why but there seems to be some errors. I don't know if it is my map or the mod.

From Gifu to Maizeru on Honshu, my hexside has a blue border? Gifu has no port nor the ability to make one.
Bacolod, on the island between Cebu and Panay, has a blue border to the west even though there is a yellow road there. So you can't capture that other city on the island and walk to Bacolod. That confused me for a couple of turns, why wasn't the unit moving?

On Luzon, there is no road from Lingayen to Iba. The road goes NW, then S to Iba. There is no road from Iba to Clark.

I thought that I did a fresh install, then the updates to the latest alpha then the beta. I removed the old AI files, put in the new ones. I loaded the scenario 2V6 which is what I am playing right now. I have never used the editor for the game.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 21
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/19/2020 4:20:35 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8209
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Having done the R&D for the Rufe, I decide to look at what starts...one squadron on a very serious AMC...an AndyMac Q ship. Oh my.

I knew she was here, having run into her in my other game.

Obviously, this squadron needs to get to a CS and be resized, where this early will make potent added aerial defense for the mini kb that normally prowls the SRA.

She starts in the Marshalls and is loaded with troops for the Wake Invasion.






A really super impressive ship. What was Andy thinking?


It does not have enough torpedoes nor torpedo tubes. Think if it found a carrier group, surprised them, and then starting launching torpedoes . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 22
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/19/2020 4:32:40 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8209
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

So, then the next plane I want asap is Tojo IIa. So I cherry pick those r&d facilities with supply. Tojo IIa comes in 9/42, which is so long away. I need 10 factories here too. Argh, I generally never put more than 5 in her.

Well, that means once I get the Tojo IIc (if I go for it which is most likely) it will free up r&d for the final generation fighters.

I also need to crank up the Ha 34 engines to get the 500 engine bonus....when the first factory reaches fully repaired.

I would like to make 150(?) a month normally, and...so I am thinking of having one big factory at 150, and letting the other 9 jump into the IIc and then something else. Since I am not going Oscar at all, I bet I will need 220 minimum, and if I am going 220, maybe I should go 300 right off the bat?

The fighter will be the primary Army fighter till June/July of 1943 when the Frank A comes, but it will always be useful if not optimal.

So, since this is scenario 2...I am thinking one size 300, 9 size 30 plus engine bonus. I might get the fighter 5 months early maybe?


Once you get the Tojo in, you can expand the factory more as needed. You can also switch some of those small production facilities to another aircraft such as the Tojo. But once you get the Frank, are you going to need to produce the Tojo? If not, more but smaller factories since switching them to another air frame will take less time.

As far as the Oscar goes, once the Zero line leaves the Ha-35 engine, then what will you do with those engine factories? If nothing else, the later marks of the Oscar may then be usable but not necessarily researched heavily, if at all. Or do you research the kamikaze planes.

Which is better, the Tojo IIc or the Ki-100 Tonies? The later Tonies have all cannons and an SR of 1 which is nice for a daily air frame. So if you end up ditching the Tojo for the later Tonies, then what happens to a super large Ha-34 engine factory? It will take a long time to switch it to another engine.

The reason why I am asking is because I have never gone that far into the game on either side and I would like to learn. Then maybe, if I get a better computer and the felines let me, I may try PBEM games.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 23
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/19/2020 11:05:55 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19783
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Once you get the Tojo in, you can expand the factory more as needed. You can also switch some of those small production facilities to another aircraft such as the Tojo. But once you get the Frank, are you going to need to produce the Tojo? If not, more but smaller factories since switching them to another air frame will take less time.

As far as the Oscar goes, once the Zero line leaves the Ha-35 engine, then what will you do with those engine factories? If nothing else, the later marks of the Oscar may then be usable but not necessarily researched heavily, if at all. Or do you research the kamikaze planes.

Which is better, the Tojo IIc or the Ki-100 Tonies? The later Tonies have all cannons and an SR of 1 which is nice for a daily air frame. So if you end up ditching the Tojo for the later Tonies, then what happens to a super large Ha-34 engine factory? It will take a long time to switch it to another engine.

The reason why I am asking is because I have never gone that far into the game on either side and I would like to learn. Then maybe, if I get a better computer and the felines let me, I may try PBEM games.



Nope, Tojo factory really needs to start max production...what that will be not certain yet, but surely in the 220 to 300 range. In fact all r&d planes need to start at near to their final production numbers.

Tojo is important even with Frank. In a defensive setting multiple frames act synergistically if you set them correctly. Low layer cap in 1943 would be A6M8 down low, next layer Tojo IIc, and top layer Frank A. What I miss is a longer range fighter escort Frank can get only 10 hexes and I have to wait till mid 43 for it. I am thinking in throwing out all the rules and using George as my bomber escort.

I would take Tojo IIc over Tony, especially in stock. IIc is a more versatile plane, and better everywhere, except for deep defense 4E interception...but that is what FB are for when the Tony arrives. Tony is almost worthless. Absolutely nothing anybody says can change my mind on the Tony...I have used them both in stock and in Symons mod.

So what if an engine factory become relatively worthless at the end game, if it gets you to the endgame?

It is very difficult to prevent Honshu from being strategically bombed in 1944. And unlike most AFBs, Lok knows what to bomb and at 2k feet.

You are ready for pbem, start a game already.









< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/19/2020 11:13:17 AM >

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 24
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/19/2020 11:54:32 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8209
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
quote:

So what if an engine factory become relatively worthless at the end game, if it gets you to the endgame?

It is very difficult to prevent Honshu from being strategically bombed in 1944. And unlike most AFBs, Lok knows what to bomb and at 2k feet.

You are ready for pbem, start a game already.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Once you get the Tojo in, you can expand the factory more as needed. You can also switch some of those small production facilities to another aircraft such as the Tojo. But once you get the Frank, are you going to need to produce the Tojo? If not, more but smaller factories since switching them to another air frame will take less time.

As far as the Oscar goes, once the Zero line leaves the Ha-35 engine, then what will you do with those engine factories? If nothing else, the later marks of the Oscar may then be usable but not necessarily researched heavily, if at all. Or do you research the kamikaze planes.

Which is better, the Tojo IIc or the Ki-100 Tonies? The later Tonies have all cannons and an SR of 1 which is nice for a daily air frame. So if you end up ditching the Tojo for the later Tonies, then what happens to a super large Ha-34 engine factory? It will take a long time to switch it to another engine.

The reason why I am asking is because I have never gone that far into the game on either side and I would like to learn. Then maybe, if I get a better computer and the felines let me, I may try PBEM games.



Nope, Tojo factory really needs to start max production...what that will be not certain yet, but surely in the 220 to 300 range. In fact all r&d planes need to start at near to their final production numbers.

Tojo is important even with Frank. In a defensive setting multiple frames act synergistically if you set them correctly. Low layer cap in 1943 would be A6M8 down low, next layer Tojo IIc, and top layer Frank A. What I miss is a longer range fighter escort Frank can get only 10 hexes and I have to wait till mid 43 for it. I am thinking in throwing out all the rules and using George as my bomber escort.

I would take Tojo IIc over Tony, especially in stock. IIc is a more versatile plane, and better everywhere, except for deep defense 4E interception...but that is what FB are for when the Tony arrives. Tony is almost worthless. Absolutely nothing anybody says can change my mind on the Tony...I have used them both in stock and in Symons mod.

So what if an engine factory become relatively worthless at the end game, if it gets you to the endgame?

It is very difficult to prevent Honshu from being strategically bombed in 1944. And unlike most AFBs, Lok knows what to bomb and at 2k feet.

You are ready for pbem, start a game already.


My computer is a Dell laptop with no battery. It thus runs at 1/3 speed. The power goes out and I lose everything. For some of the keys when pressed, they do not register until I hit them very hard. A new computer will enhance my enjoyment. Sweat Pea likes to lay on my chest - she will walk on the computer to do so. I sit in a recliner with the computer on my chest. It is easier on my eyes with the glasses that I have, I usually don't wear glasses then.

Nothing wrong with a worthless aircraft factory at the end game. I need to get there against the AI for learning purposes.

I may be ready for PBEM, but my apartment is not. I appreciate your confidence in me.

I have never fought into 1943 without the AI surrendering.

I also need to decide which side to mangle first.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 25
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/19/2020 12:37:45 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2909
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Plane r&d

12 Sam
10 Frank
10 Rufe

10 Shinden
5 Ki 94

10 Tojo IIa

5 Nick A
5 Randy FB

10 Judy
1 Jill

2 Irving S
2 Nick D
2 Frances S
1 A6M S

? Frances
? Peggy T Can I get to 5 somehow?
1 Lilly DB

To go along with this plane r&d we will be accelerating our carriers somewhat ridiculously at the cost of subs and battleships. I think I am going to have to expand naval factories to do it, as there are quite a few additional ships in the build que.

What do you guys think?


I'd cut the Rufe down a bit. 10 seems excessive. 5 will get you the A6M5c in early '43, which is plenty early for your purposes.

Ditch the Tojo - you know my views on that airframe. Bite the bullet, you can hold the line with the Zero, Oscar and Nick till the George/Jack bolsters out the air war.

The fighter model of the Randy is worth considering if you're stacking for a late-war game.

5 on the Nick A is overkill - it arrives fairly early and the subsequent models are not any sort of improvement.

10 on the Judy is also overkill, you'll be able to get the Y1 model repair and progressing the Y4 model fairly early in the game.

You also need the Grace - while the Judy 4 is better in the dive bomber role, the Grace is massively better in the torpedo bomber role than the Jill. The extra speed matters.

I think you can drop the Zero NF if you're doing the Irving and the Frances.

Frances and Peggy I both like. You can get away with skimping on the Lily DB as it arrives early enough.

While I agree you can cut out the patrols, I'd definitely consider trying to move the Myrt recon forward. The Judy-C arrives at a good date and is a yeoman-like recon airframe, but the Myrt is a different beast with that 29 hex range.

No Patsy?

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 26
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/19/2020 1:30:35 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19783
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Plane r&d

12 Sam
10 Frank
10 Rufe

10 Shinden
5 Ki 94

10 Tojo IIa

5 Nick A
5 Randy FB

10 Judy
1 Jill

2 Irving S
2 Nick D
2 Frances S
1 A6M S

? Frances
? Peggy T Can I get to 5 somehow?
1 Lilly DB

To go along with this plane r&d we will be accelerating our carriers somewhat ridiculously at the cost of subs and battleships. I think I am going to have to expand naval factories to do it, as there are quite a few additional ships in the build que.

What do you guys think?


I'd cut the Rufe down a bit. 10 seems excessive. 5 will get you the A6M5c in early '43, which is plenty early for your purposes.

Ditch the Tojo - you know my views on that airframe. Bite the bullet, you can hold the line with the Zero, Oscar and Nick till the George/Jack bolsters out the air war.

The fighter model of the Randy is worth considering if you're stacking for a late-war game.

5 on the Nick A is overkill - it arrives fairly early and the subsequent models are not any sort of improvement.

10 on the Judy is also overkill, you'll be able to get the Y1 model repair and progressing the Y4 model fairly early in the game.

You also need the Grace - while the Judy 4 is better in the dive bomber role, the Grace is massively better in the torpedo bomber role than the Jill. The extra speed matters.

I think you can drop the Zero NF if you're doing the Irving and the Frances.

Frances and Peggy I both like. You can get away with skimping on the Lily DB as it arrives early enough.

While I agree you can cut out the patrols, I'd definitely consider trying to move the Myrt recon forward. The Judy-C arrives at a good date and is a yeoman-like recon airframe, but the Myrt is a different beast with that 29 hex range.

No Patsy?



That input means a lot coming from you M-M.

I don't want the 5 so much as I want the 8 early. Really early. I would like to go 15 factories on it.

Ditching the Tojo...I was planning on using them to sweep close in air bases. Nothing else can sweep like Tojo this early. I would like to get the A6M8 earlier than the George/Jack, I figured I would need the limited offense Tojo provides to see me to 1943. I don't see how I can get the M8 early, and give up the Tojo.

I am thinking I might rotate the Judy factories to Grace once the 4 is finished. I kind of planned on skipping the 1 totally.

The Zero NF is simply to get the ability to resize NF squadrons a bit earlier if I really screw up. Insurance.

Myrt Recon is definitely a wanted plane...just not sure how to fit it in at game start.

I would like the Patsy and also the ki95.

Part of the problem with Myrt/Patsy/Ki95 is that I don't want to allocate too much to the very late game this early. I should have a plethora of Frank/Judy/Zero/Tojo factories to roll over into them -- add Grace to that list.



(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 27
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/19/2020 1:55:49 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8209
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
I have 12 factories going for the A6M5 with the engine bonus.

I am expanding my Ha-33 factories. Not having played into the late game or even into 1943, I might continue this one or start over with some different ground rules for me.

At least I captured Palembang early with only 20 points off the oil and refinery. Balikpapen and Samerinda intact, Tarakan only 27 points of damage each. Miri and Brunei, no damage other than the starting oil. Manila completely trashed. Hong Kong about half trashed.

I did not take Singkawang soon enough, putting bombers there, and the Territorials got to Singapore. Otherwise I would have taken it much sooner than the end of January. I distracted myself taking out the Malaya Army units.

But I have sunk 11 BBs plus the Repulse, the Big E, and the Lady Lex. It is early March and I just took Batavia and have invested Ambon. I have Makassar with torpedo carrying Kates there and Zeroes for escort. I have torpedo planes at Kalidjati for that end, of Java.

But I need to learn to pick up the pace.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 28
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/19/2020 4:39:32 PM   
RADM.Yamaguchi


Posts: 676
Joined: 6/30/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

So, then the next plane I want asap is Tojo IIa. So I cherry pick those r&d facilities with supply. Tojo IIa comes in 9/42, which is so long away. I need 10 factories here too. Argh, I generally never put more than 5 in her.

Well, that means once I get the Tojo IIc (if I go for it which is most likely) it will free up r&d for the final generation fighters.

I also need to crank up the Ha 34 engines to get the 500 engine bonus....when the first factory reaches fully repaired.

I would like to make 150(?) a month normally, and...so I am thinking of having one big factory at 150, and letting the other 9 jump into the IIc and then something else. Since I am not going Oscar at all, I bet I will need 220 minimum, and if I am going 220, maybe I should go 300 right off the bat?

The fighter will be the primary Army fighter till June/July of 1943 when the Frank A comes, but it will always be useful if not optimal.

So, since this is scenario 2...I am thinking one size 300, 9 size 30 plus engine bonus. I might get the fighter 5 months early maybe?

in my current PBEM stock scen 2 i went 9x30 on ki-44a and ended up with ki-44c by 6/15/42. It's very nice. almost invulnerable at this point in the game. I never went down the tony line although i have been told that i should have. Much too late to do anything about that now.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 29
RE: Ooops, I did it again (Lowpe (J) vs ?(A) - 8/19/2020 4:50:21 PM   
RADM.Yamaguchi


Posts: 676
Joined: 6/30/2019
Status: offline
I see Lowpe going for the A6M8 and Joe going for the A6M5c. Would somebody please tell me which to do????? Next time???? I got A6M5c on 6/18/42 and i like it but am i missing something on the A6M8. Pretty sure it's too late to do anything about that either.

(in reply to RADM.Yamaguchi)
Post #: 30
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