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[Resolved] Unable to fire into No Nav zone

 
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[Resolved] Unable to fire into No Nav zone - 8/10/2020 11:16:23 AM   
Sybaris


Posts: 48
Joined: 3/14/2015
Status: offline
Looked through the manual and didn't see this instance for a weapon not firing ............... Target Is In No Navigation Zone. Took me quite a while and trial and error to figure out that my aircraft flying outside a No Nav Zone were not going to fire at a hostile surface contact inside the No Nav Zone even though the target was well within the weapons envelope.

I had created the No Nav Zone to mimic the ADIZ around a country so as to keep aircraft from flying into it.

< Message edited by Steve McClaire -- 9/29/2020 12:18:23 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: 9.2.8 MY @#%@#% WEAPON WON'T FIRE - 8/10/2020 12:37:17 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 8054
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: online
Not enough information to deduct reason.

Actual information about scenario might help...since it could be essential. E.g. 1950-53 UN planes were not allowed to engage outside Korea peninsula to China/Russia area while hostile MiG-15s came and returned that way. There might be an issue, it might be work as designed. More information requested.

Upload a save in .zip form.



_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Sybaris)
Post #: 2
RE: 9.2.8 MY @#%@#% WEAPON WON'T FIRE - 8/10/2020 12:40:38 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 8054
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: online
Not saying it's not a bug...but it'd be easier to categorize with bit of info.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 3
RE: 9.2.8 MY @#%@#% WEAPON WON'T FIRE - 8/10/2020 1:27:57 PM   
Sybaris


Posts: 48
Joined: 3/14/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Not enough information to deduct reason.

Actual information about scenario might help...since it could be essential. E.g. 1950-53 UN planes were not allowed to engage outside Korea peninsula to China/Russia area while hostile MiG-15s came and returned that way. There might be an issue, it might be work as designed. More information requested.

Upload a save in .zip form.




The scenario is not finished but here are details of the issue:

The year is 1987
There is a No Nav Zone around Japan
Backfire B's with AS-4's come to attack a U.S. ship sailing in the No Nav Zone
Backfires skirt the No Nav Zone and see the U.S. ship but will not fire.

In my experimentation I set up the same instance with all the same settings in the middle of the Pacific and Backfires fire on the U.S. ship every time.


I suspect that the AI sees an ASM the same as an aircraft in relation to a No Nav Zone thus not allowing the ASM to launch and fly into the No Nav Zone.

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 4
RE: 9.2.8 MY @#%@#% WEAPON WON'T FIRE - 8/10/2020 5:31:33 PM   
ronmexico111


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/24/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sybaris


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Not enough information to deduct reason.

Actual information about scenario might help...since it could be essential. E.g. 1950-53 UN planes were not allowed to engage outside Korea peninsula to China/Russia area while hostile MiG-15s came and returned that way. There might be an issue, it might be work as designed. More information requested.

Upload a save in .zip form.




The scenario is not finished but here are details of the issue:

The year is 1987
There is a No Nav Zone around Japan
Backfire B's with AS-4's come to attack a U.S. ship sailing in the No Nav Zone
Backfires skirt the No Nav Zone and see the U.S. ship but will not fire.

In my experimentation I set up the same instance with all the same settings in the middle of the Pacific and Backfires fire on the U.S. ship every time.


I suspect that the AI sees an ASM the same as an aircraft in relation to a No Nav Zone thus not allowing the ASM to launch and fly into the No Nav Zone.



This honestly sounds like it's working as designed, you can't fire into a No-Navigation zone. There is a scenario I like called "The Isla La Orchila Affair" where a No-Navigation zone is set up to keep a player from flying into Venezuela. It makes operating in the gap between Orchila and the coast of Venezuela a dicey affair because you can see Venezuelan aircraft coming north and they can fire at you from inside the zone but you can't fire back until they poke their heads out of the zone.

_____________________________

"Never get out of the boat" Apocalypse Now

(in reply to Sybaris)
Post #: 5
RE: 9.2.8 MY @#%@#% WEAPON WON'T FIRE - 8/10/2020 6:16:31 PM   
ronmexico111


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/24/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronmexico111


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sybaris


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Not enough information to deduct reason.

Actual information about scenario might help...since it could be essential. E.g. 1950-53 UN planes were not allowed to engage outside Korea peninsula to China/Russia area while hostile MiG-15s came and returned that way. There might be an issue, it might be work as designed. More information requested.

Upload a save in .zip form.




The scenario is not finished but here are details of the issue:

The year is 1987
There is a No Nav Zone around Japan
Backfire B's with AS-4's come to attack a U.S. ship sailing in the No Nav Zone
Backfires skirt the No Nav Zone and see the U.S. ship but will not fire.

In my experimentation I set up the same instance with all the same settings in the middle of the Pacific and Backfires fire on the U.S. ship every time.


I suspect that the AI sees an ASM the same as an aircraft in relation to a No Nav Zone thus not allowing the ASM to launch and fly into the No Nav Zone.



This honestly sounds like it's working as designed, you can't fire into a No-Navigation zone. There is a scenario I like called "The Isla La Orchila Affair" where a No-Navigation zone is set up to keep a player from flying into Venezuela. It makes operating in the gap between Orchila and the coast of Venezuela a dicey affair because you can see Venezuelan aircraft coming north and they can fire at you from inside the zone but you can't fire back until they poke their heads out of the zone.


A little addendum to this...

I started the scenario I mentioned and set up a no-nav zone for all types of units around Orchila Island. However, I was still able to launch an Exocet at a radar site located within the zone (I've always operated under the assumption that you couldn't fire into those zones). This is using CMO version 11474. It's rather perplexing for me then why your aircraft won't fire into the no-nav zone as well. I've attached a save of my game showing the missile launch.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Never get out of the boat" Apocalypse Now

(in reply to ronmexico111)
Post #: 6
RE: 9.2.8 MY @#%@#% WEAPON WON'T FIRE - 8/10/2020 6:52:16 PM   
ronmexico111


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/24/2019
Status: offline
I am able to fire into a no-nav zone with my aircraft. My save is attached showing an F-16 firing at a drone that is inside a no-nav zone I set up around the drone.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Never get out of the boat" Apocalypse Now

(in reply to ronmexico111)
Post #: 7
RE: 9.2.8 MY @#%@#% WEAPON WON'T FIRE - 8/10/2020 7:06:03 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 5048
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
Again, with no save, its tough to know what's going with the OP. Even if its an unfinished scenario, being able to run the scenario and see exactly how its operating is the quickest way to an answer.

(in reply to ronmexico111)
Post #: 8
RE: 9.2.8 MY @#%@#% WEAPON WON'T FIRE - 8/10/2020 10:10:40 PM   
LMychajluk

 

Posts: 120
Joined: 10/8/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sybaris
...

quote:

I suspect that the AI sees an ASM the same as an aircraft in relation to a No Nav Zone thus not allowing the ASM to launch and fly into the No Nav Zone.


You may be right. I don't have a save, but I was playing 'Great Pacific War - Break Out 2020' from the Workshop. In it there's a No Nav Zone that your units aren't supposed to enter, and you can fire into it, but I do get penalized for the LRASMs (and other ASMs?) fired at the enemy fleet that cross into the zone. Those pop-ups are annoying as heck...

(in reply to Sybaris)
Post #: 9
RE: 9.2.8 MY @#%@#% WEAPON WON'T FIRE - 8/11/2020 1:09:09 AM   
Rory Noonan

 

Posts: 2563
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
A save will definitely help, we'll see if we can make any improvements to user feedback so this is more clear in the future.

Logged for investigation.

0014078

_____________________________


(in reply to LMychajluk)
Post #: 10
RE: 9.2.8 MY @#%@#% WEAPON WON'T FIRE - 8/11/2020 2:09:09 AM   
DracheTek

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 7/5/2020
Status: online
Unit not firing into no-nav zone is annoying given the stupid(sorry for the rude wording but it is by all mean incapable of SOME vital tasks) aircraft AI. I see the "LEGAL definition" of no-nav zone is that "you cannot fly into this part of map or we are going to have problem with our not-so-kind neighbor", but there is another reason to set one up, that "intel shows there is a long range SAM site in the area and will definitely chew you up", in that case, the "no-nav zone by threat" is definitely hostile area and will sure be hostile aircrafts patrolling this area. So my proposal is to add a tick box in "no-nav" zone settings that allow engagement of target inside the area.

(in reply to Rory Noonan)
Post #: 11
RE: 9.2.8 MY @#%@#% WEAPON WON'T FIRE - 8/11/2020 3:20:40 AM   
ronmexico111


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/24/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DracheTek

Unit not firing into no-nav zone is annoying given the stupid(sorry for the rude wording but it is by all mean incapable of SOME vital tasks) aircraft AI. I see the "LEGAL definition" of no-nav zone is that "you cannot fly into this part of map or we are going to have problem with our not-so-kind neighbor", but there is another reason to set one up, that "intel shows there is a long range SAM site in the area and will definitely chew you up", in that case, the "no-nav zone by threat" is definitely hostile area and will sure be hostile aircrafts patrolling this area. So my proposal is to add a tick box in "no-nav" zone settings that allow engagement of target inside the area.


You already can fire at targets in a no-nav zone.

_____________________________

"Never get out of the boat" Apocalypse Now

(in reply to DracheTek)
Post #: 12
RE: [Logged] Unable to fire into No Nav zone - 8/11/2020 10:15:03 AM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1501
Joined: 3/21/2014
Status: offline
I encountered this awhile back. You are absolutely correct, the NAV Zone does prevent 'some weapon' from being fired INTO IT. I've forgotten which one it is, but what you say IS TRUE.

The rest of the attacks work properly. I've just learned to work around it and, since it was only one, and I've forgotten which one it is.

As you no doubt know, the way to test it is to play that segment with, and without, the Nav Zone present. When it fires, and then doesn't fire, you will know which weapon it is.

But, what you said is true.

(in reply to Sybaris)
Post #: 13
RE: [Logged] Unable to fire into No Nav zone - 9/29/2020 12:17:58 AM   
Steve McClaire

 

Posts: 4221
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: online
Currently aircraft won't engage targets inside a no-nav zone. There is a work item to change this but it is not a quick and simple change.

For now I've added a specific message for this to the Ctrl+F1 attack dialog and also a logged message if you use F1 to order an attack and the aircraft then drops the target due to it being inside a no-nav zone.

(in reply to Sybaris)
Post #: 14
RE: [Logged] Unable to fire into No Nav zone - 9/29/2020 3:19:42 PM   
ronmexico111


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/24/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire

Currently aircraft won't engage targets inside a no-nav zone. There is a work item to change this but it is not a quick and simple change.

For now I've added a specific message for this to the Ctrl+F1 attack dialog and also a logged message if you use F1 to order an attack and the aircraft then drops the target due to it being inside a no-nav zone.



Has this changed then? As of 8/10/2020 I was able to fire into a no-nav zone.

_____________________________

"Never get out of the boat" Apocalypse Now

(in reply to Steve McClaire)
Post #: 15
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