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Economic warfare and capturing resource hexes

 
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Economic warfare and capturing resource hexes - 8/7/2020 7:19:57 PM   
mdsmall

 

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I would like to understand better how MPPs are calculated, so I have better grip on the economic dimensions of this game. The importance of convoys and the impact on them of raiding and weather are well explained in the Manual. But apart from convoy income, how is the base level of production for each Major calculated? I imagine that it is a simple total of all the resource hexes they control, plus convoy income, and then any industrial tech multipliers are applied. But are there other modifiers that apply either to specific resource hexes, or to income from conquered territories? Do captured ports contribute income to the occupying power from both the city/town hex and the port hex?

For example, the value of all the resource hexes in Sweden is 165 for the towns and mines, plus 30 more for the port hexes. Does this mean that if Germany attacks Sweden, that the United Kingdom, as Sweden’s controlling Major, immediately gets 195 MPPs every turn, diminishing over time as Germany captures Swedish resources until Germany controls all those resources? If so, that is serious economic prize and a significant incentive to consider attacking Sweden, which otherwise tends to stay out of the fray. The same goes for Persia that has resource hexes worth 135 points and has a completely insignificant army to defend itself (unlike Sweden).

In the same vein, I have wondered why the AI is programmed to invest resources in having airships and aircraft trying to bomb enemy resource hexes every turn for seemingly negligible results. Even if the war is going badly, losing 3 MPPs if a friendly resource is bombed from the air is not going to make any difference to your military effort, whereas the investment to build that air capacity and the costs of replacing losses is much higher. Or is there a strategic dimension to this economic warfare that I am missing?

Grateful to hear your views.

Michael
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RE: Economic warfare and capturing resource hexes - 8/7/2020 7:55:43 PM   
Torplexed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mdsmall


In the same vein, I have wondered why the AI is programmed to invest resources in having airships and aircraft trying to bomb enemy resource hexes every turn for seemingly negligible results. Even if the war is going badly, losing 3 MPPs if a friendly resource is bombed from the air is not going to make any difference to your military effort, whereas the investment to build that air capacity and the costs of replacing losses is much higher. Or is there a strategic dimension to this economic warfare that I am missing?



That same question has crossed my mind in the WW2 version of this series. I see the German AI lobbing V-2 missiles at cities and plonking me here and there for 3 or 4 MPPs a pop, while my ground armies are eating into the innards of the crumbling Reich. Gee...wouldn't those research Reichsmarks have been better invested in boots on the ground?

But then maybe the game is trying to teach me something about history. The German rocket program was something of an expensive bust except for the Soviet and Western scientists who inherited it.

< Message edited by Torplexed -- 8/7/2020 7:56:48 PM >


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RE: Economic warfare and capturing resource hexes - 8/12/2020 4:55:37 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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Hi Mdsmall,

Just for some quick replies here:

1) Sounds like you've pretty much got the gist of things regarding income but I can clarify a few of the points for you.

2) Ports do not have any inherent MPP value, in game you can examine the different resources under their properties for MPP values per strength point, as well as in the Editor. They naturally have other value such as being able to use them for transporting and when attempting to disrupt convoys or when protecting your own convoys etc.

3) For the Sweden example, what would happen here is yes the UK would collect the full amount until the Axis capture it, but the Axis would only gain the amount specified by the convoy (once Sweden surrenders to the Axis) as in this case there is already a convoy relationship between Germany and Sweden. Essentially there is no economic gain as Germany collects around 30 MPP when Sweden is neutral, and the same 30 MPP after occupation.

4) The AI researching and investing in Airships and so on is for some historical flavour. The game could easily be programmed to play much like a human would and not invest in Airships in WWI, or V2s in WWII, but the feedback we've had in the past is that many players like a historical feel from the game and from the AI opponent.

In the future (for new games going forward) we might include a new option where the AI can be toggled to play historically, or with some variety, or to play for the win much like a human player would and so on. This way players can choose what type of game experience they prefer.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

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RE: Economic warfare and capturing resource hexes - 8/12/2020 5:40:59 PM   
mdsmall

 

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Hi Hubert - that's really helpful.

Just to clarify regarding the Swedish example: do you mean that if Sweden surrenders to Germany, Germany would no longer get the economic benefit of the resource hexes in Sweden that it had already captured, and it would only receive the same level of resources via Convoy that it would have obtained had it never attacked? Given how resource rich Sweden is, that could mean that net German income could go up if it partially conquers Sweden, but it would do down if it completes its conquest by forcing it to surrender - which seems a bit perverse. Perhaps I am missing something,

I appreciate your explanation of the reasons why the airships carry out small impact air strikes. It's intriguing that you are considering a "historical toggle" for the AI going forward. If you did that, you could pair it with some adjustments to the rewards or penalties that the human player receives for acting historically or not (e.g. the penalties for declaring war on minors that would never have been attacked by one side or the other in real life). I am sure other readers of this Forum would come up with their own suggestions if you floated the idea as a trial balloon here.

Cheers,

Michael

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RE: Economic warfare and capturing resource hexes - 8/12/2020 7:58:57 PM   
Xsillione

 

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Each resource hex generates income based on its type, cmall cities do it with 0,25 mpp per str, other with higher, capitals even do it with 2 per str, other with different numbers, mines are the best with 3 mpp per str. So your income is heavily based on the str of the hexes, where barely supported hexes quickly drop to 5 or even less, and with fightes, it can lower until repaired, with one per turn str gain.

Also most major has an economic modifier, that is increased with the economy tech, while most minor has a modifier of 1, so they generate the base number, russia for example has a low (30% or something like that) base modifier, so they only generate 3 mpp for every 10 on the map mpp generation, but the econ tech boost them the most, since it increase this number with 15% (AFAIK), so they effectively get more than germany with their high base modifier. And also this is why romania is so great for russia, they have a base of 100% or 1, so their stuff produce at full.

Now for the convoys:
If a country has no convoy link to its master, it generates normally, but with maybe reduced str. But if there is a convoy, that convoy already represents some of its economy. so for sweden, that has a german convoy, germany gets some of its income with the convoy, and if sweden become a german minor, germany gets only what left after the convoy, so in this case, getting sweden or norway or finland into the german camp is much less beneficial, since the economic gain is much less (maybe even zero), and their forces are small at best. Also sweden will not have a land link to germany, so most of its resource spots will work from local supply, 5 or 8, so they will generate only a small amount, compared to a landlinked country, like belgium or netherlands.

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RE: Economic warfare and capturing resource hexes - 8/14/2020 3:15:43 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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I believe that is correct, until the convoy is re-established then the gain will not be reduced by the convoy percentages. Note the amount transferred via convoy is directly related to the number of resources held by a country, just possibly reduced by a set percentage however it might be scripted.

However, even if you were to not immediately take the capital, the occupied resources would be of potentially lesser value as their strengths would be low until a proper supply line is established, and with Sweden that runs through the capital. Additionally you'd have to spend some time moving units throughout the country to occupy each valuable resource where typically capturing the capital is quicker. Also, for each turn you don't control all the resources that income goes to your opponent. There are pros and cons when trying to game the system this way and some might work better versus the AI than in multiplayer, and some nations where the resources are not as spread out might work better as well.

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