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1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 7/31/2020 7:00:01 PM   
incbob


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Joined: 6/23/2004
From: Cameron, Missouri
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So. I have looked at the Picture & Text Tutorials and watched the Tutorial Videos. I played Fast Start Barbarossa and after the 3rd, or was it the 4th go, I finally feel comfortable to try and start Guadalcanal.

Instead of going with the Fast Start I decided to just start a new game so I could play with the Standard Set of optional rules and get used to setting up.

The Scenario starts in May/June of 1942 so my strategy is simple.

Japan:
As the Japanese I want to conserve my forces as best as possible. I cannot replace what the Allies can. So I need to move with force. Protect resource convoys. Defend the Marshall Islands and the Gilbert Islands. I then want to move into the Solomon, Santa Cruz, and New Hebrides to cut Australia from the USA. Of course this means I need to take Port Moresby.

Commonwealth:
Would love to retake Burma. Maybe raid South China Sea?

USA:
As the song goes time is on my side. Resist the Japanese were possible without losing my forces. If I can get a foothold in the Solomon, Marshall, or Gilbert Islands so much the better. This is a war of attrition so make the Japanese lose units whenever I can, just have to make sure I don't leave myself empty and open to attack.
Post #: 1
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 7/31/2020 7:03:10 PM   
incbob


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/23/2004
From: Cameron, Missouri
Status: offline
SETUP
Please remember I am new and really have no idea what I am doing. I am first confronted by air unit Lend Lease. I have no idea and it doesn't seem to allow me to do anything so I leave it alone.

Commonwealth Setup:
I scrap a few lessor air units (sorry didn't keep track).
South African units to South Africa...easy.
All ship, except a few convoys that will move into the Bay of Bengal go to Calcutta.
5-1 GAR to Calcutta
I decide to concentrate the Commonwealth Land units around the "front" in Burma.
3-3 INF (Indian and 7-3 INF and 3.7inch AA to the hex NW of Mandalay.
I put the Wavell HQ to the West of this and the 4-3 Inf (Indian) to the SW of Wavell.

(Just a note here about Wavell. This is one of the most underrated Generals in WWII. He at least from what I can see, seems to be a really good general, he just got a bad deal and now few look know who he is.)

Japan Setup.
Oh Boy.
I scrap a few units (sorry didn't keep track).
4-3 INF to Mandalay in Burma.
At Ragoon I put the Yamashita HQ and the Ki-44-la FTR. I really thought about putting the HQ with the INF, but want it available for transport if needed.
I put the units required into Japan with 2 transports ready to move.
I put 3CP's in the 0 box of all sea zones. I wonder do I really need to have come CP's in the Sea of Japan. I am worried about resource transport, but shouldn't the rescources be able to get transported throught the China Sea?
I also look at Kwajalein. To me it looks like it can get supply from the Marianas so I put no CP in the Marshalls.
2-4 MAR to Kwajalein as I suspect it will be a target for the Americans.
4-3 INF, 8-3 INF, and 2-3 AT to 126,176 with the Yamamoto HQ in the Hex to their NW. I want to make a strong overland push for Port Moresby.
6-3 MAR to Rabaul with a TR
4-4 MAR to Truk with an AMPH
1x B5N2 NAV to Kwajalein. This gives it access to 3 sea zones and provides some protection for the Marshall and Gilbert Islands.
1x L20 ATR to Rabaul
1x LND3 to Rabaul
1x LND3 G4M1 Betty with range of 22 to Truk.
1x FTR2 KI-27 to Rabaul
1x B6N2 Jill CVNAV to Kwajalein. Size will not allow it to fit on any CVs.
2x sub to Kwajalein to move into The Marshalls sea zone.
1x sub to Rabaul to move into Coral Sea zone.
1x sub to Ragoon to move into the Bay of Bengal.

CVL Zuiho, CVL Shoho, CVL Hosho to Japan because of no planes.
1x CA to 0 box South China Sea, China Sea, Japanese Coast, Bismark Sea, The Solomons, and The Marianas.

Rabaul
CV Zuikaku w/D3A2 size 4
CV Shokaku w/A6M3 and B5N1
CV Hiryu w/ B5N2
CV Soryu w/ B5N2
CVL Unyo, no planes, cannon fodder.
6x BB including Yamoto
5x Movement allowance 6 CAs

Truk
CV Akagi w/ A6M2 and B5N1
CV Kaga w/ A6M2 and B5N1
CV Junyo w/B5N1
CV Ryujo w/ D3A1
CVL Taiyo, no planes, cannon fodder
5x BBs including Haruna, 8x CAs

USA
I scap a bunch of units. Did I do good, bad, no idea.
I set some units to the East Coast. Why am I even dealing with the East Coast in this scenario?
Petty much shoe horned as the scenario requires me to put units in certain places so I am only going to deal with the units I get a choice of.

2x CPs to West Coast, Mendocino, and Hawaiin Islands
2x CPs to The Marshalls and 2x CPs to Coral Sea

CV Lexington and Yorktown go to Hawaii with the Enterprise.
I have a sinle LND3 and looking where to put it I find no better place than Port Moresby which has no land units. I realize that there is nothing to keep the Japanese from walking right into it. I don't know if I just wasn't allowed to put a unit there or if I was and put them in Australia instead. I have no choice, but to put the 2-4 MAR, MacArthur HQ, and 8 inch MOT Div into Moresby.

My single SUB goes to the 3 box of the South China Sea to strike a Japanese resources.
Single TR goes to San Diego where I put a 6-4 MAR and 4-4 MOT INF.
For surface forces this leaves 6 CAs. I put 4 in Darwin with the idea to move into the Timor Sea and disrupt/threaten Japanese forces. The other two go to Hawaii.
1x PBM-1 Flying boat to Espiru Santo in tghe New Hebrides.
1x P-39 FTR2 to Port Moresby.

As I contemplate where to put my last unit, a P-40 FTR2, I reinforce the feeling that I just do not have enough units to protect everything. When the CVs leave Hawaii there is no more air, so do I put it there? What about Australia, or the the New Hebrides?

I decide to put it at 129,178 just 3 hexes to the southeast of Port Moresby. From there it can cover Port Moresby and strike at Rabaul. It can even reach into the Solomon Islands and with a slight move might be able to cover Henderson Field.

(in reply to incbob)
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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 7/31/2020 7:22:19 PM   
incbob


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From: Cameron, Missouri
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Southeast Pacific at the start





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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 7/31/2020 7:23:03 PM   
incbob


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From: Cameron, Missouri
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Burma at the Start





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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 7/31/2020 8:04:35 PM   
incbob


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/23/2004
From: Cameron, Missouri
Status: offline
I am starting the Japanese turn and am kind of at a loss. I have an idea where I want to go, but no real plans.
As I survey the map the one thing that catches my eye is Midway. Until I started the turn I hadn't really looked at it, this scenario is called Guadalcanal after all. But looking at it I see just how good WiF is.

In WW2 the Japanese attacked Midway because it was the threat of Japanese forces on Midway that would draw the American fleet into battle. Looking at the WiF map I kinda of wish I had set myself up for a move on Midway because it would seriously threaten the Hawaii Islands, but my force setup makes taking it doubtful so south I go.

One thing that WiF doesn't get right is the concentration of forces. What I mean by this as the Japanese player I know wherever I go I want to go in force. A divided force would be open to a 1 on 1 fight with the USA, just what I, as Japan, don't want. But the real Battle of Midway shows just how this really isn't practical. The CV's Shokaku and Zuikaku missed the fight because of damage from the Coral Sea battle, a battle forced on Yammamoto by the Army brass.

Many also believe that Yammamoto made an error when he divided his forces and sent the CVLs (there weren't CVs no matter what MWif says, Ryujo and Junyo to attack the Aleutian Islands. This has incorrectly gone down as part of the plan as a diversion. This again is wrong and something forced of Yammamaoto.

I know there is the optional rule for Japanese Command Conflict, and I find it interesting and might play with it sometime, but honestly their conflict was more along the strategic level.

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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 7/31/2020 8:49:01 PM   
Courtenay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: incbob

SETUP
Please remember I am new and really have no idea what I am doing. I am first confronted by air unit Lend Lease. I have no idea and it doesn't seem to allow me to do anything so I leave it alone.

Japan Setup.

I put 3CP's in the 0 box of all sea zones. I wonder do I really need to have come CP's in the Sea of Japan. I am worried about resource transport, but shouldn't the rescources be able to get transported throught the China Sea?
=


You will discover that this is not nearly enough CPs tp get enough resources to Japan to maximize your production. Each CP can transfer one resource (or build point) through a sea area. Japan will never need to transport build points, so don't worry about that. Japan has a lot of factories in Japan, and not many resources, and a lot of resources outside Japan, and only a few captured Chinese factories. Figure out how many excess factories you have in Japan. You will need that many CPs in the China Sea and the Sea of Japan to get resources to them. (OK, a few can trace through the Bismark Sea and the Japanese Coast, but that is generally inefficient.)


_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 7/31/2020 9:10:30 PM   
Angeldust2

 

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In Guadalcanal scenario the JP player needs 5x CONV in South China Sea and Chinas Sea each, not more. There is no regular production. No ressources need to be transported. It is just the Allied player gets victory points, if JP cannot maintain 5 CONV in each.

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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 7/31/2020 10:15:47 PM   
incbob


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/23/2004
From: Cameron, Missouri
Status: offline
Japan Turn 1 Impulse 1
Combined

Naval Air:
None. I figure it is better to react to American movement since any mission I enact takes one of my air missions.

Naval Moves:
Sigh...only 2. Combined might not be what I wanted to choose.
Kido Butai Div 1 (CVs Akagi, Kaga, Ryujo and 7x CAs) move into the Solomon Sea zone. My idea here is to intercept any American force that moves against the Japanese moves against Port Moresby or the Solomon Islands.
Kido Butai Div 2 (CVs Zuikaku, Shokaku, Hiryu, and Soryu, BB Kirishima and Yamato, with 7x CAs) move into Coreal Sea to support invasions and moves against Port Moresby.

Naval Combat
I am offered two combats. One in South China Sea vs an American sub and one in the Coral Sea against American convoys.
As the Americans I placed them there to ensure I had supply for Port Moresby. I see now however, going second in the impulse with no protection for them already in place was a mistake. (I learn.)

I decline combat in the South China Sea and initiate combat in the Coral Sea.
The US intercepts with FTR2 and NAV3 from Port Moresby area.
Search rolls: Axis rolled 2; Allied rolled 4
Japan has 3 surprise points to spend I choose to "Decrease Enemy Air-to-Air"
PBM-1 (NAV3) is shot down, no effect on Japanese Units.
FTR2 and 2 CPs abort. FTR2 to Port Moresby and CPs to Espiritu Santu

#1 I should never have placed the USA CP there without protection.
#2 I used the Japanese CV planes as Bombers and Fighters, but I never got a chance to shoot the CPs. Why not?
#3 I was able to abort the CPs. If this is what prevented the fight then I should never haave flown the Amercan planes on interception.

Ground Strike against the Port Moresby units with FTR3 from Rabaul flying at long range and two CV Planes, one as bomber and one as FTR for cover. The American air force is caught flat footed.




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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 7/31/2020 10:16:45 PM   
incbob


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From: Cameron, Missouri
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Land Movement
The units of the Port Moresby attack force move into position to launch their attack.

NAV bomber from Japan to Iwo Jima to get closer to being used.

First impulse over. Learned a lot. Made a lot of mistakes.





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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 7/31/2020 10:24:10 PM   
brian brian

 

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Joined: 11/16/2005
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Have fun and don’t worry. The historical commanders had never fought a campaign across a theater the size of the Pacific, all while learning a new aircraft paradigm for naval warfare, either.

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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/1/2020 12:19:45 AM   
incbob


Posts: 345
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From: Cameron, Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay
You will discover that this is not nearly enough CPs tp get enough resources to Japan to maximize your production. Each CP can transfer one resource (or build point) through a sea area. Japan will never need to transport build points, so don't worry about that. Japan has a lot of factories in Japan, and not many resources, and a lot of resources outside Japan, and only a few captured Chinese factories. Figure out how many excess factories you have in Japan. You will need that many CPs in the China Sea and the Sea of Japan to get resources to them. (OK, a few can trace through the Bismark Sea and the Japanese Coast, but that is generally inefficient.)


Thank You.
This is really my first opportunity to transport resources. I am sure I will have to move around some transports.

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Post #: 11
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/1/2020 12:21:42 AM   
incbob


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/23/2004
From: Cameron, Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Angeldust2
In Guadalcanal scenario the JP player needs 5x CONV in South China Sea and Chinas Sea each, not more. There is no regular production. No ressources need to be transported. It is just the Allied player gets victory points, if JP cannot maintain 5 CONV in each.


Did not know this and it is really good to know.

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Post #: 12
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/1/2020 12:24:06 AM   
incbob


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/23/2004
From: Cameron, Missouri
Status: offline
I am doing the first Allied impulse and one thing I find "fun" about playing is that since I am so new and since I really don't know what to expect I am doing things that can be a surprise. For instance...spoilers ahead.....I moved 4 US CAs into a sea zone and now I get to see if Japan can move to take them out.

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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/1/2020 12:47:07 AM   
Courtenay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: incbob

quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay
You will discover that this is not nearly enough CPs tp get enough resources to Japan to maximize your production. Each CP can transfer one resource (or build point) through a sea area. Japan will never need to transport build points, so don't worry about that. Japan has a lot of factories in Japan, and not many resources, and a lot of resources outside Japan, and only a few captured Chinese factories. Figure out how many excess factories you have in Japan. You will need that many CPs in the China Sea and the Sea of Japan to get resources to them. (OK, a few can trace through the Bismark Sea and the Japanese Coast, but that is generally inefficient.)


Thank You.
This is really my first opportunity to transport resources. I am sure I will have to move around some transports.

I'm sorry. I've never played the Guadalcanal scenario, and it evidently has it own rules for production, so what I said does not apply. My apologies.

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/1/2020 12:51:34 AM   
Courtenay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: incbob

Japan Turn 1 Impulse 1
Combined

Naval Air:
None. I figure it is better to react to American movement since any mission I enact takes one of my air missions.

Naval Moves:
Sigh...only 2. Combined might not be what I wanted to choose.
Kido Butai Div 1 (CVs Akagi, Kaga, Ryujo and 7x CAs) move into the Solomon Sea zone. My idea here is to intercept any American force that moves against the Japanese moves against Port Moresby or the Solomon Islands.
Kido Butai Div 2 (CVs Zuikaku, Shokaku, Hiryu, and Soryu, BB Kirishima and Yamato, with 7x CAs) move into Coreal Sea to support invasions and moves against Port Moresby.

Naval Combat
I am offered two combats. One in South China Sea vs an American sub and one in the Coral Sea against American convoys.
As the Americans I placed them there to ensure I had supply for Port Moresby. I see now however, going second in the impulse with no protection for them already in place was a mistake. (I learn.)

I decline combat in the South China Sea and initiate combat in the Coral Sea.
The US intercepts with FTR2 and NAV3 from Port Moresby area.
Search rolls: Axis rolled 2; Allied rolled 4
Japan has 3 surprise points to spend I choose to "Decrease Enemy Air-to-Air"
PBM-1 (NAV3) is shot down, no effect on Japanese Units.
FTR2 and 2 CPs abort. FTR2 to Port Moresby and CPs to Espiritu Santu

#1 I should never have placed the USA CP there without protection.
#2 I used the Japanese CV planes as Bombers and Fighters, but I never got a chance to shoot the CPs. Why not?
#3 I was able to abort the CPs. If this is what prevented the fight then I should never haave flown the Amercan planes on interception.


Both sides found in this battle. When both sides find, every unit that found is is involved in the battle, and no other units. In particular, the US units in the zero box would not be included.

If only one side found, then it gets to pick which sea boxes the enemy is in are included. (It must pick at least one.)


_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

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Post #: 15
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/1/2020 1:28:55 AM   
incbob


Posts: 345
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From: Cameron, Missouri
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USA/Commonwealth Turn 1 Impulse 1
Both: Naval.

I really check to make sure that I understand what my limits are before I make a choice. As the only land moves I see are loading and unloading, and this doesn't count as land moves I choose Naval for both.

1x CW CP from Cocanada, India to Cape Naturaliste zone (south of Australia). Looking at the supply paths I don't think I need anything in the Bay of Bengal and the Allies can really use it elsewhere.

2x CW CP from S. Africa and 1x CW from Italian Somaliland to the Arabian Sea.
1x CW TRS to Arabian Sea, plan to pick up 5-4 INF in Italian Somaliland.

CV Formidable, CV Illustrious, BB Renowon and 6x CAs to Cape Naturaliste.
The rest stay Calcuta since the the CV Indomitable does not have any aircraft and it will need escorts when it does get aircraft.

CV Hornet, 2x BB to Mexican Coast from the East Coast.
TR with 6-4 MAR from San Diego to Polynesia.
CV Yorktown, Enterprise, and Lexington with 8x CAs to the New Zealand Coast sea zone. I don't want to move them directly to the Coral Sea zone because doing so would only put them in the 2 box while the Japanese would be in the 4 box.

At this point I realize how precarious the situation is. I do not have enought CPs to supply the line from Hawaii to Australia. I strip 1 CP from the Hawaiian, Mendocino, and West Coast sea zones and put them in American Somoa. This leaves them with only one CP each and I worry about Japanese subs so I go looking for escorts.

CA Louisville from San Francisco to West Coast 0 for escort duty.
BB Mississippi from Pearl to Mendocino 0 for escort duty.
BB Idaho from Pearl to Hawaiin Islands 0 for escort duty.
BBs for escorts? Sigh, well honestly they cannot keep up with the CVs so....

USA Sub from Honolulu to The Solomons box 3.
4x CAs from Port Darwin into the Timor Sea box 4. I will find out if the Japanese can respond.

As American I am offered combat in the South China Sea, sub vs CA and 3 CPs, and The Solomons with a Sub versus the entire Kido Butai div 1. In the Timor Sea I have 4x CAs and the Japanese have 3 CPs. Why am I not offered this combat? The CAs are in box 4, the CP in box 0. Do the CAs need to be in box 0?

I initiate combat in the South China Sea and commit my sub. Three straight rounds and 3 of combat leave the 3x CP aborted to Tianan, Formosa.

I initate combat in The Solomons. Apparently I do not know what I dm doing. The Sub is killed, but 2x CP are aborted to Truk.

During the rebase and reorganization phase I rebase P-38 to Australia, rebase East Coast bomber to Tulsa, and use MacArthur to reoganize 5-3 MOT ART and P-40 FTR in Port Moresby.

That's all for tonight. More tomorrow.

< Message edited by incbob -- 8/1/2020 1:34:19 AM >

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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/1/2020 2:20:13 AM   
incbob


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From: Cameron, Missouri
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I want to make sure everyone knows how much I appreciate all the comments. More the better for me to learn.

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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/1/2020 3:02:57 AM   
Courtenay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: incbob

USA/Commonwealth Turn 1 Impulse 1
Both: Naval.

As American I am offered combat in the South China Sea, sub vs CA and 3 CPs, and The Solomons with a Sub versus the entire Kido Butai div 1. In the Timor Sea I have 4x CAs and the Japanese have 3 CPs. Why am I not offered this combat? The CAs are in box 4, the CP in box 0. Do the CAs need to be in box 0?


Something wrong here. You should have been offered the chance to initiate combat.

I have seen a bug where naval units that undo a move and then moved out again are not counted for naval combat. There is an easy workaround: save the game at the end of naval movement, and reload the game.

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

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Post #: 18
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/1/2020 3:53:54 AM   
incbob


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From: Cameron, Missouri
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I am starting Impulse 3 and they are still there.

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Post #: 19
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/1/2020 6:34:45 PM   
incbob


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From: Cameron, Missouri
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As I begin Impulse 3 for the Japanese their plan is simple. Secure the pipeline of supplies to the Homeland. Keep control of the Coral Sea to aid in taking Port Moresby and securing the Solomon Islands as a stepping stone into the south Pacific.

My thoughts however are with the Americans. They have to move into the Coral Sea to stop the Japanese advance. If they don't Port Moresby falls and any chance of saving the Solomon Islands probably goes with it. The next advance is cutting Australia off at best and maybe even an invasion of Austrailia itself.

I find myself in the same situation Admiral Nimitz was in during June of 1942 and the Battle of Midway. If I do engage in battle I save American lives and a Strategic point. Any losses that are inflicted on the Japanese are losses they cannot make good, but I can.

But what if the Americans don't win? What if 2 or even all 3 American CVs go to the bottom. Sure there is the CV Hornet and CV Saratoga that will be in San Francisco, something Nimitz did not have, but they don't have planes. Without the Enterprise, Yorktown, and Lexington there is nothing to stop the Japanese from running wild and that doesn't even take into account the loss of Port Moresby or the Solomon Islands. It is interesting to me that I am looking at fighting a Battle of Midway whether I want to or not. Eventually the forces have to meet and fight it out.

I also look and the board and think as if I was the Japanese playing another humans. I know something the Japanese never knew. I know where the American Navy is at. I have two carrier groups. Do I group them together, smart game wise, but I am not sure how realistic it is. Or do I take my fleet that is currently in The Marshalls sea zone and move to attack the American fleet before it gets to Coral Sea? Any losses it inflicts make the Coral Sea fight easier, but any losses I take cannot be replaced. Or do I keep that fleet back in case of a Coral Sea loss.

I have always been a huge fan of the Pacific Theatre and studied it endlessly. It is interesting to me that at some point the two navies were going to have to fight it out with a massive swing for whoever wins. IRL it happened at Midway. Here it looks like it will be the Coral Sea.

Also, I found out why I wasn't offered a combat in the Timor Sea. The USA's 4x CAs are all disorganized. So I understand why they weren't offered combat. Now, to figure out why they were disorganized.

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Post #: 20
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/1/2020 6:37:01 PM   
incbob


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From: Cameron, Missouri
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Japan Turn 1 Impulse 3
Combined.
TRS w/ 7-3 INF (Elite) from Kobe, Japan to Coral Sea box 0. (I hope the either land near Port Moresby or invade it itself.)
3x TRS from Timor Sea to Batavia.

Offered a battle in the South China Sea. Rain, my single CA vs a single disorg sub. I decline.
Land Units move to surround Port Moresby and the Yamammato HQ moves closer to the front.
NAV from Iwo Jima to the Palau Islands (closer).

Really, until a unit is ready to invade I don't think there is much the Japanese can do. The land movement to get into position to attack is killing the Japanese. They have so many naval moves to make, but they need the land moves to get into position.




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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/1/2020 6:39:04 PM   
incbob


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From: Cameron, Missouri
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Allies Turn 1 Impulse 4
USA and CW choose Naval
1x USA TRS from Honolulu to Oakland to pick up 6-4 INF.
CV Hornet from Mexican coast to San Francisco to wait on CV planes.
BB North Carolina and Washington from Mexican coast to Honolulu.
TRS w/6-4 MAR from Polynesia to Suva, Fiji Islands.

The American task force of CV Lexington, Yorktown and Enterprise were in the New Zealand Coast sea zone. They, and their escorts, move into Brisbane as they prepare for the battle to come.
BB Colorado from San Francisco to New Zealand Coast sea zone, BB New Mexico, Maryland, and Pennsylvania join her from Honolulu. (I hope to have them in place for future shore bombardment duty.)
All CW units in the Cape of Naturaliste sea zone join the Americans in Brisbane.
1 CW CP to Polynesia box 0. (I sure hope all Allied supplies can move through CW CPs and not just CW supplies.)
P-39 rebases to Townsville in effort to get into supply.
P-40 rebases from Port Moresby to Townsville in order to get into supply.
B-25 rebases from Dallas to San Diego.
HQ Nimitz reorganizes the BB North Carolina and BB Washington so they can move out. (It isn't doing anything else.)
CW TRS in Arabian Sea reorganizes 2 CPs.

(in reply to incbob)
Post #: 22
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/1/2020 7:04:12 PM   
incbob


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/23/2004
From: Cameron, Missouri
Status: offline
At this point I can make some comments.

My entire setup, more for the Allies than for Japan, is/was a disaster. I was unsure of where to place units and because I was unsure did not place them correctly. The fact that I did not have a complete understanding of CPs also limits me now. Instead of having the supply pipeline from the USA West Coast to the south Pacific around Australia set up I am instead having to maneuver around CPs to make it work.

This maneuvering of units is not just limited to CPs either, but mostly. At this point I find myself trying to maneuver units into attack position. The 3 American CVs about to enter the Coral Sea are an example. it has taken 2 impulses just to get them into the place where they can attack. I wonder is this normal? Are delays like this common? Especially for the Japanese I feel I should be doing more, moving quicker.

Also, one thing that I had not thought of before I started Guadalcanal is the advantage the board game gives the player. Playing Barbarossa I could understand that the Germans or Soviets would have some idea of the forces that they faced. In the Pacific this was different. Both sides had vague ideas where the other side was, but often even these vague ideas were wildly wrong. Take for instance the situation of the Japanese in the game I am playing. They know exactly where the US and CW forces are.

Now that said, there are a couple of things that make up for this knowledge we should not have.
1-Naval Searches. Yeah, you might now where they are, but bringing to battle is something completely different.
2-Activity Limits.
This is a huge one. As the Japanese player I know where the Americans are. I have a large Task Force in the Solomon Sea zone, but if I move it than I am not moving other Naval units or I am not moving my land units to attack Port Moresby.


(in reply to incbob)
Post #: 23
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/1/2020 8:50:49 PM   
cfinch

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 6/9/2016
Status: offline
i agree with "you may not bring them to battle" this to me is the i know where they are...or do i

one thing to consider, if you have the chit and depending on timing, is super combined - more or less the most powerful play in pacific. more or less unlimited everything

(in reply to incbob)
Post #: 24
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/2/2020 1:02:48 AM   
Courtenay


Posts: 3774
Joined: 11/12/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: incbob
Also, I found out why I wasn't offered a combat in the Timor Sea. The USA's 4x CAs are all disorganized. So I understand why they weren't offered combat. Now, to figure out why they were disorganized.

Sounds to me like you moved them when they were out of supply. Were they based in Darwin, or maybe Moresby with no CP in the Coral Sea?

Brisbane is a nice base for the Americans because, no matter what, it can't be put out of supply.

Just don't mix CW and US naval units in the same port. It knocks a point off your speed.

Early 1942 is interesting, because the two sides have approximate naval parity. If one side makes a major commitment to one sea zone, the other can attack in other sea zones.


_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

(in reply to incbob)
Post #: 25
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/2/2020 2:55:03 PM   
incbob


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/23/2004
From: Cameron, Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

Sounds to me like you moved them when they were out of supply. Were they based in Darwin, or maybe Moresby with no CP in the Coral Sea?

Brisbane is a nice base for the Americans because, no matter what, it can't be put out of supply.

Just don't mix CW and US naval units in the same port. It knocks a point off your speed.

Early 1942 is interesting, because the two sides have approximate naval parity. If one side makes a major commitment to one sea zone, the other can attack in other sea zones.


Yes, they were in Darwin and I had not setup my units correctly so they were I guess out of supply. Then the Japanese moved into the Coral Sea and it did not matter.

Did not know about the CW and US units in same port. To late since I already did it, but I learn.

Until the USA gets an overwhelming naval superiority I would say that the strategy of "hit them where they ain't" is a possible strategy. But I am free to admit I do not know how good of a strategy it is.

(in reply to Courtenay)
Post #: 26
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/2/2020 8:37:48 PM   
incbob


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/23/2004
From: Cameron, Missouri
Status: offline
Well. I hate to do it, but it is time to call this AAR done.
I intended to take this to completion, but really cannot. I am going to start over and maybe my 3rd game I can do.
There is just to much I did not know. I did worry that starting an AAR on my first Guadalcanal game was biting of more than I could chew, but I thought I had a handle on Naval and was good with Barbarossa.

Things I learned.

1- Know your units. Smaller/Lessor units might be better than that one bigger/better one.
During setup I chose some class 5 CV air units since they were the better air unit. The problem is this left me with a unit I could not use and and since I did not choose the lessor air units with the smaller class I was left with CVs with no planes.

2- Know your supply routes.
I did not realize all the sea zones that I needed CPs in and did not know how many CPs I needed in each sea zone. This is a deficiency because I do not know production that well.

3- Supply is harder to come by in the Pacifc.
At least in Barbarossa supply seemed easy to figure out and once a unit got OOS it was rather easy to get it back into supply. With tthe Pacific once you loose control of a sea zone all units out of supply on an Island can be out of supply so you have to be careful.

4- Multiple Impulses
For Japan and the Allies in the Pacific you just cannot do all you need in a single Impulse. Even a Combined choice doesn't give you enough actions to do it what you need. You end up having to prioritize your actions and go over multiple Impulses. I felt this a lot more in the Pacific than I did in Barbarossa.

5- Your gonna fight.
Early game US/Japan is interesgting in that in the early game neither the US nor the Japanease want to loose units. The US because they have so few and the Japanese because what they loose is difficult to replace. Yet, for the Japanese you have to put your units in harms way to prevent take avenues of attack away from the US. As for the Allies if you want to stop the Japanese you have to place your units in harms way. The result is that you are going to fight a battle like Midway win or lose.

6- Not enough Units.
I mean I understand you never have what you want, but I was shocked by the lack of something simple like CPs. I figure you need at least 2-3 CPs per sea zone to keep supply lines open in case of subs. But the US barely has enough to go from the US to the south Pacific.

The same goes for air units and land units. The Guadalcanal scenario was is set in May/June 42, yet as the Japanese I could not put units in the Philippines or other places you might suspect there would be units.

7- Concentration or Spread Out.
This is a question that I did not get answered and probably never will. Do you hit them where they aren't? Do you have one really big force or do you divide your forces and try more than one operation at at time.

An example is of this is the Allied side in this AAR. Do you combine the CW and US carriers into one large group to resist the Japanese or do you le the US resist while using the CW carriers to strike elsewhere? As the Japanese if you combine your units you have a force that will be daunting for the US and CW combined. However, if you do this you leave yourself open to being attacked where you aren't. On the other hand if you split your forces you risk being defeated in detail.


(in reply to incbob)
Post #: 27
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/2/2020 9:56:22 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3135
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: online
Note on carrying supply through a sea zone - a TRS or AMPH in the zone also does the job. These can sail into a high box with strong escorts; can be a good tactic ‘on the front lines’ at times.

It is worth remembering that the Guadalcanal scenario is not a simulation of the entire Pacific War. The other side gets Victory Points for sinking a CV, sure, but this one isn’t about the long haul.

The Japanese are on interior lines and need to use that to their advantage. If the Allies, on exterior lines, over-concentrate on a flank, they are one turn away from aiding the other flank.

(in reply to incbob)
Post #: 28
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/2/2020 10:07:58 PM   
Courtenay


Posts: 3774
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: incbob

Well. I hate to do it, but it is time to call this AAR done.
I intended to take this to completion, but really cannot. I am going to start over and maybe my 3rd game I can do.
There is just to much I did not know. I did worry that starting an AAR on my first Guadalcanal game was biting of more than I could chew, but I thought I had a handle on Naval and was good with Barbarossa.

Things I learned.

1- Know your units. Smaller/Lessor units might be better than that one bigger/better one.
During setup I chose some class 5 CV air units since they were the better air unit. The problem is this left me with a unit I could not use and and since I did not choose the lessor air units with the smaller class I was left with CVs with no planes.

Yes, the US's size 5 CVPs are for the Essexes. which don't exist yet at the start of the Guadalcanal campaign. In Global war, the CW's CVP pool is agonizing. They start the game with empty carriers, and it is hard to fill them. If the Japanese build all their CVL's, they will find it almost impossible to provide them all with planes.
quote:


2- Know your supply routes.
I did not realize all the sea zones that I needed CPs in and did not know how many CPs I needed in each sea zone. This is a deficiency because I do not know production that well.

The Guadalcanal scenario has special rules, which I do not know. You have to read the scenario booklet to get the Guadalcanal rules to figure out where CPs are required for victory points.
quote:


3- Supply is harder to come by in the Pacifc.
At least in Barbarossa supply seemed easy to figure out and once a unit got OOS it was rather easy to get it back into supply. With tthe Pacific once you loose control of a sea zone all units out of supply on an Island can be out of supply so you have to be careful.

4- Multiple Impulses
For Japan and the Allies in the Pacific you just cannot do all you need in a single Impulse. Even a Combined choice doesn't give you enough actions to do it what you need. You end up having to prioritize your actions and go over multiple Impulses. I felt this a lot more in the Pacific than I did in Barbarossa.

5- Your gonna fight.
Early game US/Japan is interesgting in that in the early game neither the US nor the Japanease want to loose units. The US /because they have so few and the Japanese because what they loose is difficult to replace. Yet, for the Japanese you have to put your units in harms way to prevent take avenues of attack away from the US. As for the Allies if you want to stop the Japanese you have to place your units in harms way. The result is that you are going to fight a battle like Midway win or lose.

6- Not enough Units.
I mean I understand you never have what you want, but I was shocked by the lack of something simple like CPs. I figure you need at least 2-3 CPs per sea zone to keep supply lines open in case of subs. But the US barely has enough to go from the US to the south Pacific.

The number of CPs to have in a sea zone you are just using for supply, not production, is one (1). Having one or two extra will not help, because if an opposing submarine force finds you, you will likely lose multiple CPs. Don't give the enemy multiple CPs to kill. Instead, try to have multiple routes your supply can go through. The Coral Sea is an unfortunate choke point; it is hard to get around it. The enemy will knock out a CP here or there; just be prepared to replace them as quickly as possible.
quote:


The same goes for air units and land units. The Guadalcanal scenario was is set in May/June 42, yet as the Japanese I could not put units in the Philippines or other places you might suspect there would be units.

7- Concentration or Spread Out.
This is a question that I did not get answered and probably never will. Do you hit them where they aren't? Do you have one really big force or do you divide your forces and try more than one operation at at time.

An example is of this is the Allied side in this AAR. Do you combine the CW and US carriers into one large group to resist the Japanese or do you le the US resist while using the CW carriers to strike elsewhere? As the Japanese if you combine your units you have a force that will be daunting for the US and CW combined. However, if you do this you leave yourself open to being attacked where you aren't. On the other hand if you split your forces you risk being defeated in detail.

It is very hard to make a naval offensive when there is parity of forces. Land based air is key. You can operate if you have it; advancing to where you don't is very problematic. (Except for submarines, who more or less have to.)

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

(in reply to incbob)
Post #: 29
RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario - 8/2/2020 11:40:08 PM   
incbob


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/23/2004
From: Cameron, Missouri
Status: offline
Thank you for all these notes.

I, the "read the damn instructions before you play" guy didn't bother to ready the Guadalcanal scenario until way later. I figured it was here is 5 turns during the war kind of thing to introduce me to naval stuff. It did that, but wasn't prepared for the game part of it.


(in reply to Courtenay)
Post #: 30
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