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Regime Profiles and Their In-Game Evolution

 
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Regime Profiles and Their In-Game Evolution - 7/16/2020 1:50:32 PM   
Kriegsspieler

 

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I've been playing SE regularly for about a month now and have gotten to the point where I feel competent enough not to panic and start trolling through the threads whenever there's a new logistical issue. Anyway, I think that I have begun to understand the game a little.

Of all that the game offers, I would like to suggest here that the system of regime profiles is perhaps the one that is most in need of improvement sometime in the future. (There are other places too where the game can get better, such as the cumbersome system creating large military formations, but that's already been discussed elsewhere.) In the hope of starting a useful discussion about this, I'll offer my thinking and then hopefully others weigh in.

The basic concept of regime profiles is a good one, and I especially like how you are given options for shaping the basic profile during the last stages of generating the game. To me,it makes sense that your profile would be shaped in response to how your little tribe managed to survive the Dissolution Wars. This gives the game that bit of role-playing that many games seem to require now, and, most importantly, it offers a logical point of departure for what follows. Your regime is what history has made of it -- at least in the beginning.

The problem begins with what happens next. As nearly everyone has pointed out in reviews and videos, no player will fail to see that nearly all of the individual profiles offer regime feats that are well worth striving for. Thus we are given incentives to shift our regime profile around some, from autocracy to democracy, from heart to mind, from fist to commerce, etc., in an attempt to harvest some of those feats and the stratagem cards that go with them. This shifting around can't continue forever, of course, because harvesting the higher-level fests requires that your choose an individual profile and stay with it.

Personally, I find the early phase of shifting profiles both arbitrary and somewhat too "easy." A regime that is really changing its basic social and political commitments from, say, popular democracy to meritocratic elitism should be suffering more unrest than I typically observe in the game. Other shifts wouldn't necessarily bring demonstrators out into the streets, but all of them could arguably come at more cost than they do now.

Secondly, the system for modifying profiles feels arbitrary insofar as one of the principal ways it happens -- at least, in my experience -- is to wait for decisions whereby your governor decides to take a lover and asks to have him/her accompany the governor on trips around the zone (wtf?), or some talented soldier appears and you are offered to retrain the soldier as a spy, or a circus juggler, or whatever, or you are invited to attend one of the local cult's therapy session, to have your mind bent, etc. These and other decisions come with +/- modifications to existing profiles that often appear unconnected with the issue -- the talented soldier ones are especially mystifying in this regard. To me, anyway, these events haven't been thought through carefully enough, nor are there enough of them, so eventually they start to feel pretty repetitive.

My point here is not to criticize the use of events as a vehicle for shaping regime profiles. That's a solid mechanic. It's just the the events themselves are not rich enough in their diversity, nor in their connection to the game narrative, to offer all that they could. Let's go back to one of the regime developments I mentioned above, where you want to shift from popular democracy to a more meritocratic regime. Any faction attempting that ought to have a chance of receiving events that specifically refer to that shift, such as the appearance of a populist demagogue who threatens unrest unless you restore democracy, or in the other direction, an elitist clique that agitates for more investment in private initiatives. Or both! (not in the same turn, of course, or . . . .?)

Well, there it is. I love this game, truly. And what I love most is how it offers us a chance to imagine how it could be even better.


< Message edited by Kriegsspieler -- 7/16/2020 4:16:18 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Regime Profiles and Their In-Game Evolution - 7/16/2020 8:34:08 PM   
lloydster4

 

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I never spread my points around for regime profiles. The bonuses at the very high end are game-changers. Getting a profile score about 80 requires a lot of focus, and spreading your points around early can make it outright impossible.

I'm sure that this is hurting me during the early-game, but I don't mind. I prefer sticking with a single profile for roleplaying purposes, and mid-game wars are way more fun when I'm the smaller, weaker nation.

I fully agree that the game would benefit from an expanded pool of events.

(in reply to Kriegsspieler)
Post #: 2
RE: Regime Profiles and Their In-Game Evolution - 7/16/2020 9:04:42 PM   
Twotribes


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Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
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My problem is that the profiles I want Mind meritocracy and forget the other are not offered enough to raise them up it seems, mind I get a lot of but never hardly ever get meritocracy.

(in reply to lloydster4)
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RE: Regime Profiles and Their In-Game Evolution - 7/16/2020 9:38:10 PM   
Malevolence


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I falsely assumed I could stack the deck early by choosing regime profile scores from the turn 1 history screen in my favor.

I selected autocracy, fist, and enforcement as the methods our regime bootstrapped.

At the start of the orders phase, all the starting leaders and factions were shuffled democracy, government, and heart.

To add injury to insult, those three profiles were shuffled with other affinities--like mind, commerce, and meritocracy. Not only did I not get what I expected, none of them cooperated with each other either.

Someone in beta must have suggested that trap.



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< Message edited by Malevolence -- 7/16/2020 9:42:17 PM >


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RE: Regime Profiles and Their In-Game Evolution - 7/16/2020 10:10:31 PM   
sinbuster

 

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Thank you for bringing this up. I think the problem and the cure are in the events. To me it would make much more sense for the events to provide an incentive/penalty for pursuing those big profile scores. You have a high democracy, let's say, and the event provides any easy way out but a boost to either autocracy or meritocracy, thus dragging your democracy down. Or you go the hard route, with unrest, monetary costs or the like, just to squeeze out some more democracy points. The complete randomness and unbalanced nature of the events is definitely an issue. Who knew a mascot was the single greatest boon to democracy?

On the topic of profiles, I find it impossible to ever maintain high scores. The other profiles will inevitably pull down my preferred one, so I generally end up with the same low to mid-level mix of stratagems. I like how the decay means you can lose stratagems but it would be nice to reach those good ones even if it's just for a few turns.

(in reply to Kriegsspieler)
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RE: Regime Profiles and Their In-Game Evolution - 7/16/2020 10:20:25 PM   
Lovenought

 

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I've gotten up to Autocracy max before. In my experience, if you have a bunch of cities you will get a "workers strike" event every turn basically, which you can crush for Autocracy points (or get meritocracy or democracy if you want). The other two categories are harder to level up.

One thing to also consider is that if focus really hard on one trio of ethics, you can eventually stack your entire government with people who have + for them. And then they will all get a big relationships boost because you have those so high. In my last game I sometimes had every single leader in my empire above 90 relations, and many at 100 (apart from some OHQ commanders who I tolerated having dissident ideas, because I thought "why bother killing them" when I can just wait for them to die in combat)

That high relationship bonus makes your empire more efficient, it's a hidden boost above the bonuses you get in the tree.

(in reply to sinbuster)
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RE: Regime Profiles and Their In-Game Evolution - 7/16/2020 10:38:13 PM   
mek42

 

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From: Upstate (Central) NY
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I've been making decisions more about keeping leaders happy. Then I roleplay. At some point I'll look into the meta of specific benefits.

I've mostly played early game. Sometimes I have to autocratically respond to unrest if my economy isn't up yet. I am also guilty of sometimes blindly clicking "give into demands" and miss seeing that the investigate option is feasible.

In my current game (1.04 release) I just broke 90 with Democracy. Is that one of the good effects?

So many things to learn and keep track of. It is like a Russian doll. It is glorious!

(in reply to Lovenought)
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RE: Regime Profiles and Their In-Game Evolution - 7/17/2020 11:34:44 AM   
demiare

 

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I'm just restarting game a few time from "latest generated planet" save until I will get at least partially adequate factions. It's super stupid to be able select a starting policy preferences but not get any supporters for them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sinbuster
On the topic of profiles, I find it impossible to ever maintain high scores. The other profiles will inevitably pull down my preferred one, so I generally end up with the same low to mid-level mix of stratagems. I like how the decay means you can lose stratagems but it would be nice to reach those good ones even if it's just for a few turns.


Don't hesitate to refuse requests from minor factions. Use save-load to bypass ANNOYING "we have a promising soldier in XXX" events. I hate them most - all other events I'd seen have options to pick opposite ideology, this one force you to take one of two UNRELATED ideologies. Extremely stupid and annoying - why we can't just refuse to pay for that advancing training?!

< Message edited by demiare -- 7/17/2020 11:35:39 AM >

(in reply to mek42)
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RE: Regime Profiles and Their In-Game Evolution - 7/18/2020 12:03:49 AM   
Covski

 

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For most of those, you can completely ignore the events by simply not picking an option and leaving them until you end the turn - events where you have to make a decision will stop you from ending the turn before you make a decision. I agree that there should be an obvious ignore button for these cases though.

I feel like for most of the big reoccuring events there should be an option for all three of the opposite profiles choices - I do like the idea of an ideological commitment to your profile choices should come at the cost of sometimes having to choose a suboptimal response to an issue.

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 9
RE: Regime Profiles and Their In-Game Evolution - 7/18/2020 6:38:20 AM   
Galdred

 

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Regarding profiles, I sometimes get all options to deal with riots/strikes (meritocracy: oratory check, democracy: give them money, autocracy: suppress), but the meritocracy has often been missing in my game lately.
Is it because there are hidden prereqs for some options(governor affinity? Regime score in each profile?) ?
It makes it very hard to maintain the meritocracy profile high, given how often riots/worker strikes happen.

(in reply to Covski)
Post #: 10
RE: Regime Profiles and Their In-Game Evolution - 7/22/2020 6:55:43 PM   
Leslac

 

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Certain cults are meritocracy centered and you'll be getting more options to increase that stat if you support them. Only way to get the exactly right cult is to conquer another city where they exist and start supporting them.

(in reply to Galdred)
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RE: Regime Profiles and Their In-Game Evolution - 7/24/2020 6:29:59 PM   
WCG

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

I falsely assumed I could stack the deck early by choosing regime profile scores from the turn 1 history screen in my favor.

I selected autocracy, fist, and enforcement as the methods our regime bootstrapped.

At the start of the orders phase, all the starting leaders and factions were shuffled democracy, government, and heart.


Heh, heh. That's funny, because my experience was just the reverse of that. I started with Democracy, Government, and Mind, but my starting leaders and factions were all about Autocracy, Enforcement, and Fist.

And my largest faction is still that way. They hate me. They can't figure out why I won't go to war at the drop of a hat (I'm playing a more diplomatic game), and they always want me to raise one of the profiles I don't even slightly want. Funny, huh?

Admittedly, I'm only in my second game (and the first I quit early, when the new version of the game was released). But both times, I've found it impossible to maintain a Government profile. The game always wants me to go with Commerce, apparently. That's OK, but it wasn't what I intended.

(Personally, I don't like the changes which pretty much restrict us to one profile type. I'd prefer to play a more balanced nation. But that's not possible now.)

I'm loving the game, though! These minor issues can't change that.


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Post #: 12
RE: Regime Profiles and Their In-Game Evolution - 7/24/2020 10:20:06 PM   
Malevolence


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Joined: 4/3/2010
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For reference, [1.04b9] Primer: Regime Profiles

Please add important details I missed or make corrections.

There isn't anything special there; basically the manual text.

If the search was better in the forum, it might be good for a quick reminder.


_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to WCG)
Post #: 13
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