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Extreme - Medusa - Turn 117 win! My experience & thoughts.

 
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Extreme - Medusa - Turn 117 win! My experience & thoughts. - 7/13/2020 10:22:10 AM   
seiSetill

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
https://imgur.com/a/im78FkB

What a ride! I finished my first Extreme run. Settings were:

Medusa Class
Drop my in a game now!
Complete Fog of War
City State Start
Militia Only
All story modules
Tech Level 3
Normal development speed
Only supreme command council
Epochs Enabled
Extreme

To note: this was on 1.04-beta1 before the pull-system was introduced.


Two bugs that made this unusually hard.
1) Sales tax bug. I was playing with worker happiness at 0 for 60% of the game, even while paying workers maximum salary (30cr). That meant public asset production and building were very poor which crippled me most of the game.

2) Victory condition bug. I only won when the victory score was 76-24, and we started the war at 26-27. This is a bug, as I should have won as soon as I had 50 points and was 20 points above the runner up.


What a game. Nearly every plan I had went awry. Ended up in a world wide 1 v 1 against an major ally I befriended in the early game using a generous amount of "Plea of Friendship" stratagems. If you wondered if there were expansive, scary wars - yes there is!

Constant supply line cuts. Great maneuvering by the AI. Even more impressive because we were fighting across 3 fronts. The last 15 turns took me around 20 minutes each to plan.

When I first betrayed them and launched an alpha strike, I thought the game was over because I found out THAT TURN, that they had heavy battle dress plasma rifle infantry...and 2.1x more total forces than I had.

We were both fighting at -97% attack values due to very low electric ammo supply. I was spending 13k worth of recruits every turn, and that wasn't enough to hold all the fronts. I couldn't reinforce most of my units, so I was forced to leave them in strategic defense points and pray they could hold long enough for me to pull out the win.

Their siege infantry decimated my forces. If we kept fighting, it was going to end in a loss. I redeployed my artillery toward their main cities, and hammered away, one by one. I took 1:1 odds almost every fight. I made a bet that I could take their remaining cities before they could punch through my two weak fronts. And it just paid off.

An amazing game.

Some end game stats I found interesting:

I controlled 25 cities across 2 SHQs at end game.

The AI beat me in tech level the entire game. I passed the 4th place AI @ turn 43, the 3rd place AI @ turn 100, and the 2nd place AI never.

The turning point of the game was turn 100 when I brought out lots of Light Armor, and passed my rival in comparative manpower for the first time.

I focused on Motorized forces for mobility, and had between 15x-57x more Motorized forces than any AI.

I took the victory score lead at turn 76 (32 me, 28 rival, 13 other, 9 other), and winning at turn 117 (76 me, 24 rival)

I'm not sure what culture levels do. Would be interesting if someone could comment on this cultural score graph and let us know how that impacted the game.

Admin Level: I took the admin lead @ turn 45 and kept the lead.

Troops: Just enjoy that graph. Bastia Pax was my early friend, late game rival. As you'll see, at the start of the war (turn 100), they more than doubled my troops.

I can't wait to try out the new beta updates. My next game: Extreme on a MOON!


< Message edited by seiSetill -- 7/13/2020 10:38:49 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Extreme - Medusa - Turn 117 win! My experience & th... - 7/13/2020 2:11:21 PM   
GodwinW


Posts: 511
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline
Awesome!

(in reply to seiSetill)
Post #: 2
RE: Extreme - Medusa - Turn 117 win! My experience & th... - 7/13/2020 7:52:27 PM   
eddieballgame

 

Posts: 446
Joined: 6/29/2011
Status: offline
Congrats, very impressive.
Per the Victory Score you mentioned being +20 over did not grant you the win.
Did you mean +25?

(in reply to GodwinW)
Post #: 3
RE: Extreme - Medusa - Turn 117 win! My experience & th... - 7/14/2020 9:09:35 AM   
seiSetill

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

Awesome!


Thank you!

quote:

ORIGINAL: eddieballgame

Congrats, very impressive.
Per the Victory Score you mentioned being +20 over did not grant you the win.
Did you mean +25?


Yes I did, thanks for the correction. My head was stuck on +20 for some reason.

Even with +25, I made that crossing on turn 96 when the score was 53-27, a 26 point difference. That's where I should have won, but I'm kinda thankful I didn't because I would have missed that huge world war.

(in reply to eddieballgame)
Post #: 4
RE: Extreme - Medusa - Turn 117 win! My experience & th... - 7/14/2020 10:35:27 AM   
Raagun

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline
I am playing on hard and am a bit disappointed in AI. While Major next to me could been a risk it is no more. To me looks like AI is most active when I (human) are making actions next to it. It was not attacking minors until I attacked minor in several cases. Now when nonaligned territory separates us from rest of AI's it basically does NOTING. I have peace with him and he just sits there. While Majors on the other Major/Minors "island" are also very tame.

I think Major AI actually lacks goal to win the game. They just react to situations. I am not competing with them I am just conquering them.

< Message edited by Raagun -- 7/14/2020 10:36:58 AM >

(in reply to seiSetill)
Post #: 5
RE: Extreme - Medusa - Turn 117 win! My experience & th... - 7/14/2020 10:45:39 AM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raagun

Now when nonaligned territory separates us from rest of AI's it basically does NOTING.


AFAIK AI is either never create a new zones or doing it very rarely. Ofk it's purely my personal experience :)

(in reply to Raagun)
Post #: 6
RE: Extreme - Medusa - Turn 117 win! My experience & th... - 7/14/2020 4:00:42 PM   
seiSetill

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raagun

I am playing on hard and am a bit disappointed in AI. While Major next to me could been a risk it is no more. To me looks like AI is most active when I (human) are making actions next to it. It was not attacking minors until I attacked minor in several cases. Now when nonaligned territory separates us from rest of AI's it basically does NOTING. I have peace with him and he just sits there. While Majors on the other Major/Minors "island" are also very tame.

I think Major AI actually lacks goal to win the game. They just react to situations. I am not competing with them I am just conquering them.

quote:

could been a risk it is no more. To me looks like AI is most active when I (human) are making actions next to it. It was not attacking


I've had mixed experiences with the AI's attempts to win.

I believe there are two ways to raise your score: population and % of land controlled. The AI has to raise either in order to win. It's arguably easier to win by grabbing lots of land. I found I could control land grabbing much easier than I could population.

With that said, an AI that is aggressive at taking land is likely more dangerous. I found some AI profiles are much more aggressive toward attacking me, while others will back off. In my extreme game, I was lucky to befriend the major power that ate up the other 2 majors, and most of the minors. In fact, it beat me in land grabbing, pop, and manpower until the end, when we went to war and I started cutting into their land.

I'm not sure when the AI decides to break those pacts for the sake of winning, but it would be interesting to see that behavior if it recognized that a timed betrayal would give it the win.

I wish we could control the profiles of the AI and test to see what AI profiles (gov, etc) are prone to being more aggressive in their attempt to win. That'd be super interesting to see.

Would be cool to see the AI profiles of the game you're playing. That might reveal why they are more reactionary.

I will say that my Cerebus Hard all default start had a much more difficult early game than my medusa extreme. Was attacked non-stop, and didn't fine metal mines till very late in the game. Recycle facilities saved me.


quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raagun

Now when nonaligned territory separates us from rest of AI's it basically does NOTING.


AFAIK AI is either never create a new zones or doing it very rarely. Ofk it's purely my personal experience :)



I've never seen them turn a truck station into a city in a Non-aligned zone. That might have been because every hex had 400 RAD...but still :)

< Message edited by seiSetill -- 7/14/2020 4:02:18 PM >

(in reply to Raagun)
Post #: 7
RE: Extreme - Medusa - Turn 117 win! My experience & th... - 7/17/2020 1:05:22 AM   
Tssha

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 3/25/2013
Status: offline
It's not the difference in score, it's the absolute score. As long as even one major power holds at least 25% of the victory points, you cannot win. Once you can get them below that threshold, victory is possible.

Check the Victory reference panel, it's explicitly stated.

(in reply to seiSetill)
Post #: 8
RE: Extreme - Medusa - Turn 117 win! My experience & th... - 7/18/2020 9:42:16 PM   
seiSetill

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tssha

It's not the difference in score, it's the absolute score. As long as even one major power holds at least 25% of the victory points, you cannot win. Once you can get them below that threshold, victory is possible.

Check the Victory reference panel, it's explicitly stated.


Yeah I totally missed that - was it a tool tip? I read the manual, "Victory score higher than 50 while the difference with your closest opponent is at least 25 points", and I left it at that.


At least the beta has updated the victory scoring to align with the manual, so next time, I'll be on target

(in reply to Tssha)
Post #: 9
RE: Extreme - Medusa - Turn 117 win! My experience & th... - 7/19/2020 2:02:25 AM   
Tssha

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 3/25/2013
Status: offline
Nope, not a tool tip. Spelled out in the victory overview screen (second tab from the right, next to the minimap). Gives you the score for yourself and all the other major powers, and breaks it down by planet and population percentages.

The Rep (probably short for report) tab has a lot of useful windows. It's well worth the time spent exploring.

Also, I'm on 1.04 main branch.

(in reply to seiSetill)
Post #: 10
RE: Extreme - Medusa - Turn 117 win! My experience & th... - 7/19/2020 10:43:32 AM   
Vic


Posts: 7420
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline
The victory condition has been fixed in v104-beta4.

But SeiSetell, I'd appreciate a save game from where around this issue arises for the AI:
quote:


We were both fighting at -97% attack values due to very low electric ammo supply. I was spending 13k worth of recruits every turn, and that wasn't enough to hold all the fronts. I couldn't reinforce most of my units, so I was forced to leave them in strategic defense points and pray they could hold long enough for me to pull out the win.


Please leave a link to this thread in your email.

Send it over to vic@vrdesigns.net

Much appreciated!! :)
best,
Vic

_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics


(in reply to Tssha)
Post #: 11
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