Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Canadian Quibbles

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> WarPlan >> Canadian Quibbles Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Canadian Quibbles - 7/12/2020 5:35:08 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 1954
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: online
Has anyone else noticed that every major and minor nation in the game gets an automatic HQ except one? The exception, of course, is Canada. Perhaps fair enough as 1st Canadian Army was not activated until 1942. But IMHO this should be an automatic build like Zuhkov's HQ is for the Russians.

But even more important is that UK HQs should be allowed to command Canadian units and vice versa. This would be historically accurate as Canadian 1st Corps was attached to 8th Army in Italy and a British Corps was attached to Canadian 1st Army in NW Europe. Without this change I am curious as to what other players build for Canada? Do you build infantry units even though they can't be commanded by UK HQs? Do you build a Canadian HQ? If so, how many Canadian units do you want to have before you do so? Do you just use the Canadians as garrisons? Or do you just build Canadian air units and not build any land units at all?

Another quibble is that Canada's best general, Guy Simmonds, is not available. If the test is that only generals that commanded armies or above are available, I would point out that Simmonds temporarily commanded 1st Canadian Army while Crerar was ill.

A final quibble is that I think Canadian units should have higher starting experience as they were 100% volunteers and highly trained; but perhaps I am biased.

Post #: 1
RE: Canadian Quibbles - 7/12/2020 6:54:09 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3118
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
Agree with you that Guy Simmonds must be there. Even if I am never building much Canadian land units.

I always lose before 1944 as Allies...

Here are the two Canada generals in the game:




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 2
RE: Canadian Quibbles - 7/13/2020 3:21:39 AM   
sveint


Posts: 2801
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

I always lose before 1944 as Allies...



I can't seem to lose as the Allies... but winning as the Axis is really rough. Odd.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 3
RE: Canadian Quibbles - 7/13/2020 1:47:33 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

Posts: 831
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
I'm multi-talented. I can lose for either side.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 4
RE: Canadian Quibbles - 7/16/2020 1:19:43 PM   
Hoyt Burrass


Posts: 298
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: Montgomery, Alabama
Status: offline
I build Canadian infantry divisions through the war, until they ran out of logistics in early 1943...They garrisoned Norway, British ports, and the Med (Gibraltar, Malta, Syria, Cyprus)....

_____________________________

Roll Tide

(in reply to kennonlightfoot)
Post #: 5
RE: Canadian Quibbles - 7/16/2020 2:56:58 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7457
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
In the first couple of years I just use the Canadians to build escorts, which frees up British production for everything else. Canada can pump out something like 30 escorts in two years, which when added to the original British pool and lend lease escorts should be enough to take care of escorts for the whole war.

Then I'll switch over to infantry to provide more garrisons and free up allied forces for duty elsewhere. With their limited logistical pool, there's not much left over after that to build up an actual front line army. With whatever is left over I might build a para unit or two and an HQ to go with.



_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Hoyt Burrass)
Post #: 6
RE: Canadian Quibbles - 7/16/2020 3:53:02 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 6251
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

In the first couple of years I just use the Canadians to build escorts, which frees up British production for everything else. Canada can pump out something like 30 escorts in two years, which when added to the original British pool and lend lease escorts should be enough to take care of escorts for the whole war.

Then I'll switch over to infantry to provide more garrisons and free up allied forces for duty elsewhere. With their limited logistical pool, there's not much left over after that to build up an actual front line army. With whatever is left over I might build a para unit or two and an HQ to go with.




That's what I do. I mostly use them for garrisons on Victory locations.

_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 7
RE: Canadian Quibbles - 7/17/2020 12:00:45 AM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 1954
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

In the first couple of years I just use the Canadians to build escorts, which frees up British production for everything else. Canada can pump out something like 30 escorts in two years, which when added to the original British pool and lend lease escorts should be enough to take care of escorts for the whole war.

Then I'll switch over to infantry to provide more garrisons and free up allied forces for duty elsewhere. With their limited logistical pool, there's not much left over after that to build up an actual front line army. With whatever is left over I might build a para unit or two and an HQ to go with.




That's what I do. I mostly use them for garrisons on Victory locations.


Can you see why, as a Canadian, I am a little insulted that the game system encourages the Allied player to regulate the Canadians to escort and garrison duty. I mean these were all volunteers and undoubtedly the best soldiers (along with some of the elite specialty units) that the Allies had. Historically the Allied High Command always gave the Canadians the **** jobs. Suicide missions like Dieppe and Hong Kong. Attacking through the mountainous middle of Sicily. Marching up Italy from it's toe (while the Americans got to ride pleasure boats to Salerno). Ortona. Breaking the Hitler Line (which was wasted by an unnamed American General). The Germans always knew that wherever the Canadian units in Italy were located that was where the main offensive was going to take place. This is why the Canadians made a showing of themselves in Florence before being secretly transported to the East Coast where they broke the Gustav Line. Then in Normandy a Canadian unit was the only one to reach its D-day objective. We then got the necessary, but inglorious, job of clearing the channel ports and the the Battle of the Scheldt so Antwerp could be used. Our final job was to liberate Holland. But at least the Allied High Command appreciated the abilities of the Canadian Army. I was going to go on and talk about the RCAF and RCN, but you probably get my point.

So I repeat my request that the Canadians receive an automatic HQ in 1942 and that their default experience be increased to 60%. Then maybe players will build Canadian Armies and armour and use them as they should be used.




(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 8
RE: Canadian Quibbles - 7/17/2020 1:39:52 AM   
baloo7777


Posts: 941
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana




quote:

So I repeat my request that the Canadians receive an automatic HQ in 1942 and that their default experience be increased to 60%. Then maybe players will build Canadian Armies and armour and use them as they should be used.


+1

I would like to see the Australians appear in Egypt as an already elite corps, and the New Zealand Division be an armoured corps to represent their ferocious fighting ability and reputation.I guess I miss AH old Anzio boardgame with the 1st SSF US/Canadian's that fought as equivalent to a division...
nostalgic for a moment...

_____________________________

JRR

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 9
ANZAC - 7/17/2020 2:21:25 AM   
Magpius


Posts: 1499
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
Yes, let us not forget the Desert rats of Tobruk.

(in reply to baloo7777)
Post #: 10
RE: ANZAC - 7/17/2020 3:06:35 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7457
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
An Anzac corps does eventually arrive in the Middle East. I can see a case for putting a Canadian HQ in the queue, but this idea of a super special 60% Canadian corps doesn't make much sense to me. Canada wasn't that special compared to anybody else. Nothing personal, just not seeing it. If the US marines get 50%, so can Canada.

And you cannot force an allied player to actually build up a line Canadian army if they don't want to do that. If you want to role play the Canadians as something other than a garrison and escorting force, that is a matter of player choice and Canadian amour propre. Not being Canadian my pride isn't involved here and I probably wouldn't choose to do it. The basic problem is that Canada doesn't have a large logistical pool or enough industry or manpower to really play with the big boys as opposed to supporting them in their rear.





< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 7/17/2020 3:09:04 AM >


_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Magpius)
Post #: 11
RE: ANZAC - 7/17/2020 12:20:07 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 6251
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline
If you want to beef up Canada send them production. By 1944 you can build a decent army.

_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 12
RE: ANZAC - 7/17/2020 6:34:35 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3118
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

If you want to beef up Canada send them production. By 1944 you can build a decent army.


Everybody is free to produce units for Canada. Just allow to select Guy Simmonds in a Canadian HQ.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 13
RE: ANZAC - 7/18/2020 8:30:25 AM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 1954
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

An Anzac corps does eventually arrive in the Middle East. I can see a case for putting a Canadian HQ in the queue, but this idea of a super special 60% Canadian corps doesn't make much sense to me. Canada wasn't that special compared to anybody else. Nothing personal, just not seeing it. If the US marines get 50%, so can Canada.


The Anzac Corps can be commanded by a UK HQ, a Canadian Corps cannot (even though historically they were). With respect, I don't think there was anything special about the American Army either; but the game gives their Armies 6 OPS. In fact the Canadian Army (small as it was) was man for man the most mechanized Army in WW2. It also had the highest ratio of armoured divisions to infantry divisions of any army. I will therefore be satisfied if Canadian Armies can be commanded by UK HQs and also receive 6 OPs.

quote:

And you cannot force an allied player to actually build up a line Canadian army if they don't want to do that. If you want to role play the Canadians as something other than a garrison and escorting force, that is a matter of player choice and Canadian amour propre. Not being Canadian my pride isn't involved here and I probably wouldn't choose to do it. The basic problem is that Canada doesn't have a large logistical pool or enough industry or manpower to really play with the big boys as opposed to supporting them in their rear.


I am not trying to force players to do anything and I am certainly not trying to force them to build a Canadian Army. What I am complaining about is that the game system forces (or at least strongly encourages) Allied Players to not build Canadian Corps or Armies. Historically Canada certainly did "play with the big boys" and certainly did not support "them in the rear". All I am asking is that they be given a fair chance to do that in this game without the Rules being warped against them. I would be happy with 1 large infantry corps, 1 armour corps, 1 HQ (which can command UK units) and 4 or 5 air units. This would be the historical build and is all within Canadian production and manpower capacity. But like everyone else I am not going to build Canadian army units (other than to use them for garrisons) if I am penalized by the game system for doing so (I want to win too you know).


(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 14
RE: ANZAC - 7/18/2020 8:33:13 AM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 1954
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

If you want to beef up Canada send them production. By 1944 you can build a decent army.


I don't think beefing up Canadian production is required. What is required, to be historical, is that they get a free HQ and can be commanded by UK HQs and Canadian HQs can command UK units.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 15
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> WarPlan >> Canadian Quibbles Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.133