Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

[1.04b8] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Shadow Empire >> Tech Support >> [1.04b8] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
[1.04b8] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/12/2020 1:28:47 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
EDIT: Given changes in 1.04b8, conducted same test case per image. No change.

Given changes in 1.04b7, conducted same test case per image.




Goal:

Make sure 50 points get to the asset without wasting logistic points and not micromanaging the traffic signals in the road junction hex.

Situation:

Points flowing through the main supply route will change. Avoid adjusting the traffic control signals each time the numbers change.

Method: (not automatic)

Set custom pull points to 50 in the asset's hex. Set the traffic control signal to block 100% for truck points only. Rail points and pull points are not impeded by the traffic control signal.

Result:

Per the image, insufficient logistic points reached the hex. Only 46 logistic points are anticipated per preview overlay.




For reference, Game Build v 1.04-beta7; Scenario Build v1.04-beta2; Last Game Build used 104-beta6; Scenario Version Number #42.

I am running a Win 10 Pro 64bit, Intel i7-1065G7, 16GB RAM. It is a Surface Pro 7, connected to 2560x1600 display monitor via USB-C. That's Intel Iris Plus integrated graphics.


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 7/16/2020 3:25:38 AM >


_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.
Post #: 1
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/12/2020 1:34:58 PM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline
Are you sure that DISABLED blocking pull points (white and not red toggle in traffic sign window)?

Because currently in beta7 I'm feeding 3 assets through 100% truck-only block and it's working ALMOST fine - without additional signs logistic system send twice as much LP as I need. But it goes through sign without any problem.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 2
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/12/2020 2:13:31 PM   
ramnblam

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 6/9/2020
From: Australia
Status: offline
I kicked up a new game to test and it Mal and it seems to working alright. I'm gonna start a big new game tomorrow with some of the wacky history settings :D So I will report back if I notice things not working like I would expect.

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 3
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/12/2020 3:36:38 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
You should take a screenshot of the logistics logs in the traffic light screen for the tile with the junction.

(in reply to ramnblam)
Post #: 4
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/12/2020 10:16:13 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
I intended to drop the log view as well, but OBE. I will when I’m connected to the game again.

My guess was this was the result of a typical rounding error.

There are 4 lines feeding that main supply route.

I suspect the algorithm tries to take an equal percentage of each. It then rounds to integer.

So, the pull missed the mark by four points. That smells of rounding on four separate numbers.

That is a guess and I will provide log when I’m back at the machine.

_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 5
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/12/2020 10:21:36 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
I'm guessing the logistics ran out of action points. But what I'm really confused about is the tile with 52 logistics between the asset and the main road.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 6
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/12/2020 11:05:08 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
Junction hex. Preview log.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 7
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/12/2020 11:05:37 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
Middle hex. Preview log.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 8
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/12/2020 11:08:13 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
Asset hex with custom pull points. Preview log.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 9
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/13/2020 12:02:22 AM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
As an aside, if this ends up working, traffic signals and custom pull points for special cases will become my new standard of logistics control.

The traffic signs window view still requires a serious makeover.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 7/13/2020 12:07:16 AM >


_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 10
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/13/2020 3:48:52 AM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
So yeah, the 52 on the tile above the asset seem to be a rounding error and the asset only getting 46 points is related to the logistics running out of action points.
The pull system doesn't pay attention to the action points of the logistics right now, so stuff like this can happen. It sadly means that the 100% block traffic sign isn't always useful right now.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 11
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/13/2020 2:15:07 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

So yeah, the 52 on the tile above the asset seem to be a rounding error and the asset only getting 46 points is related to the logistics running out of action points.
The pull system doesn't pay attention to the action points of the logistics right now, so stuff like this can happen. It sadly means that the 100% block traffic sign isn't always useful right now.


Indeed; thanks for looking closely at this error. Your expertise is appreciated.

I did further testing last night. You are correct about the truck action point issue. The split of pull points only works with some small number of truck action points.

If the custom pull point target is one or two hexes away it routinely works, given no rounding error.

To be clear, the basis of truck actions points is sufficient, but the split does not include them in sufficient quantity.

Per the image, only using normal traffic signals, all these custom pull point targets have sufficient truck action points to reach them. However, using 100% traffic signals and custom pull points does not satisfy the needed truck action points.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 7/13/2020 2:25:11 PM >


_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 12
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/13/2020 2:27:27 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
Interesting spur here. Enough truck action points to go well beyond the target.




I should add, this is not a "real game", it is a savegame repeatedly used as a testbed. Most real game situations are not this controlled.


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 7/13/2020 2:39:51 PM >


_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 13
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/13/2020 2:36:57 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
In contrast to the above, the results of this spur are very different. Specific circumstances create widely different results.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 7/13/2020 2:37:32 PM >


_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 14
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/13/2020 2:44:02 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

As an aside, if this ends up working, traffic signals and custom pull points for special cases will become my new standard of logistics control.



Surprised at the significant number of truck points a player can focus on a supply route if this technique actually worked--and with very little micro. It is efficient.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 7/13/2020 2:50:03 PM >


_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 15
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/16/2020 3:26:29 AM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
All issues documented above continue to exist in v1.04b8. Used the test savegame; not a new game from start at beta8.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 7/16/2020 3:29:07 AM >


_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 16
RE: [1.04b7] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex - 7/16/2020 4:07:48 AM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
This is really a separate issue. However, it relates to custom pull points.

Same hex; same moment in time. No changes made.

Why is the "100" pull point background color different in the traffic signals view and on the main map view?

What does that background color convey to the player? What does that difference convey, if anything?

If I were to guess, the color change is based on the logistics overlay being displayed at the time--different for the main map and the traffic signals view.

On the main map, green is for the current points view (i.e. current value); pink is for the preview points view (i.e. future value).

However, are there any differences being communicated to the player with respect to the custom pull points value given those two overlays? How is the current value different from the future value, when the player can change it immediately during this orders phase?

Said another way, is the state of current logistic points, as opposed to preview logistic points, important to the player with respect to the assignment of the custom pull points?

Per the main map, the custom pull point value is not displayed on initial points, used points, or the bottlenecks overlay. No background color or number is used.




Per the next image, the color in the traffic signals view is not always green.

Guessing again, Start Turn custom pull points (i.e. past) as opposed to Preview custom pull points (i.e. future)?

Per the main map, background colors are current versus future. Traffic signal view colors are past versus future.

To make the main map view consistent with traffic signal view, the past custom pull points should be on the initial points layer with a green background.

Past custom pull points assigned, in comparison to preview (i.e. future), should be helpful information.

If it is working and intended as I wrote above, then I'll make a new post in Suggestions about the potentially more consistent alternative. Otherwise, noted here regarding custom pull point issues.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 7/16/2020 4:44:03 AM >


_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 17
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Shadow Empire >> Tech Support >> [1.04b8] Insufficent Pull Points Reach Hex Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.254