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Units with energy weapons / engines won't refuel

 
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Units with energy weapons / engines won't refuel - 7/5/2020 10:28:33 PM   
Foxador

 

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Joined: 7/5/2020
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I got laser weapons and the electric engine so I upgraded my troops over to using them only to find out that they don't get supplies for their energy needs. I have tons of free logistical points for supply, I'm making 3k more energy than I can store.

The only thing that happened after making these troops is that each time I made one my max energy that I could store dropped by how much that unit needed. So I had like a max of 5k energy (I swear it was higher but it tanked like a rock at one point) and after making them I now have a max of about 2k energy with 3k going to waste each turn yet they never get supplied.

Even after getting rid of all of them my energy max storage is now close to 1.5k so I can't really make them anymore, at least not in a decent size. Not that it matters since they never get refueled.

Odd thing is that even the GR tanks that you find have the same issue. When I first started playing a few days ago I didn't have this problem and my GR tanks I found early on did a ton of grunt work for a long long time. Yet here after I move any unit with a battery or attack with it they just end up with nothing left and can't do anything other than take away from my max energy. Even them taking away from my max energy makes no sense to me since it's not like they're actually getting any of it and I don't see why having the units would take away from my max since it's not like they need to get refueled EVERY turn if you're not using them.

Either way I had to downgrade all my units from laser guns back to automatic weapons which wasted even more of my resources just to go back to where I first started other than having a crippled max energy storage.

I don't remember needing anything fancy for them before so I'm curious why in this game and my last game I can no longer even use energy weapons or engines.
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RE: Units with energy weapons / engines won't refuel - 7/5/2020 11:33:53 PM   
t1it

 

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Sounds hella weird...
So your units gets all the required supplies except energy? Have you checked your SHQ Logistics? Bottlenecks? Could be as simple as your assets eating all that energy available from the storage.



(in reply to Foxador)
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RE: Units with energy weapons / engines won't refuel - 7/5/2020 11:58:08 PM   
Foxador

 

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Yea they get everything they need BUT energy every turn. I had nothing building and just skipped through 10 turns and it never changed. SHQ logistics was only using half of it's allowed stuff on filling up the units and it would always report that more people requested supplies than it gave. Also had a ton of extra energy, was always at the blue =

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RE: Units with energy weapons / engines won't refuel - 7/6/2020 12:24:15 AM   
zgrssd

 

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It is important to understand the SHQ orders:
SHQ > Zone
SHG > Units
Production
ZOne > SHQ
Replacements

You can only use the resource you have in storage when hitting end-turn the resupply your units. If your storage is low enough, that could account for the issue.

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RE: Units with energy weapons / engines won't refuel - 7/6/2020 12:25:45 AM   
LordAldrich

 

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I think this might be a bug. I've seen a few different threads where people are having similar issues - Energy and Fuel not getting topped off even though units are in-supply and Energy and Fuel are both weightless (which is silly IMO, but that's a different topic).

If you have the save-file for the turn where they're not getting topped off I'd post it as a bug in the tech support forum.

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RE: Units with energy weapons / engines won't refuel - 7/6/2020 12:26:35 AM   
zgrssd

 

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Regarding Storage:
Zones try to keep 1 turn of consumption (2 for Food) in storage. All remaining Storage will be given to the SHQ. if your consumption in each zone goes high enough, you may have no storage left as all Zones need it locally.

I doubt it was actually teh units being build that reduced your storage capacity. More likely it was a change in teh zones consumption.

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RE: Units with energy weapons / engines won't refuel - 7/6/2020 1:09:44 AM   
zgrssd

 

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Okay, there are few options I think you should check out:
1. You do not have enough storage.
You say you make "3000 more energy then I can store". That is a big enough discrepancy to cause issues.
The sequency could work like this:
- Your Zones request everything they can get from teh SHQ. The entire storage from last turn. They would have taken more, but there is not enough storage to requrest more each turn.
- Your Units request Energy, but there is nothing
- the Zones produce and have their productio nretrieved, givign you a full storage.

It is very easy to missread SHQ figures like that: Just because you got something in Storage after the SHQ has supplied and retrieved stuff, does not mean you had enough during that phase!
Energy has exceptionally low storage by nature. If units cost/bind energy storage, it would be trivial to have storage drop below Zone+Unit consumption. Meaning the SHQ could never store enough to satisfy the turns demands.

2. Something is taking away your storage.
The big cultript is the Zones just keeping a lot of their storage for themself. This would actually mesh well with 1.
It is not impossible that forming a unit that uses Energy, will also bind the storage capacity. I need to look if something like that happens with Food, Ammo and Fuel Storage.
If it does, that would be a massive issue for Energy weaponry thanks to the exceptionally low storage. It would explain why there are so many storage buildings all of a sudden, however.

3. There is a bottleneck at the units.
It is possible the manual only meant that Water, Fuel and Energy delvierd to Zones is free - not the one delivered to units.
You indicated that you only looked at the SHQ end of the Logistics. But stuff needs the logistics capacity on the entire way to the units.
You can have 10k Logistics at the SHQ. But if there is one hex with only 10 logistics, that is the limit what you can deliver.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 7/6/2020 1:12:24 AM >

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RE: Units with energy weapons / engines won't refuel - 7/6/2020 2:24:03 AM   
Foxador

 

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Joined: 7/5/2020
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Well I don't know what was going on with that game it could've just been bugged or something. I reloaded the old autosave I had back when the issue came up and all of a sudden it was working totally fine even though nothing changed.

Maybe something got bugged out since in that game when I built storage units in some of my zones it crippled my economy. After I built just level 1 storage stuff in some of my zones all of a sudden my max storage of EVERYTHING dropped to almost nothing. Like I could only hold a max of 500-1k of anything that wasn't unlimited. As you can imagine this messed everything up as all my towns started starving and no units got any supplies. I had to delete the storage units and wait at least 6 turns for things to go back to where it was before. Then I did the energy weapons and they just didn't want to take any energy.

As per your remark zgrssd from what I have seen anytime that I make a unit that needs energy for it my max energy drops by that same amount. So if I make a unit that needs 3k energy my max energy drops by that amount. It's noticeable right away since it takes effect the moment you make the unit. If you then scarp that same unit on the same turn you energy max isn't adjusted back to where it should have been but that might just fix it's self on the next turn.

All I know is that I was on turn 90 with half the world under my control yet I could only have 5k max energy stored up even with zero energy units

Maybe the game was bugged up cause that wasn't the only issue. I also could never finish researching mining tech or communication tech, they both sat at 99 points for twenty turns before I gave up on them.


I can't point links but the SHQ is:

Sent / Requested
SHQ > Zone: 18781/18781
SHQ > Unit: 7018/7330
Zone > SHQ : 51465/51465
Replace: 25/85

Logistical Points Usage
SHQ > Zone : 7694/11742
SHQ > Unit : 6461 / 23485
Zone > SHQ : 7524/8807
Replacement: 875/23485

The bottleneck is also pretty darn green all over and the units that need the stuff are sitting right outside the SHQ so they're the closest to it. I can have 50000 infantry all the way across the map fully resupplied every turn but everyone that needs energy is just getting the shaft


< Message edited by Foxador -- 7/6/2020 2:31:12 AM >

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RE: Units with energy weapons / engines won't refuel - 7/6/2020 8:41:42 AM   
Vhalor


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You may want to upload your save somewhere so people can have a look at what's going on exactly with that.

About the two techs, they sound like linear techs which get increasingly more difficult to research the higher they go, generally not really worthwhile to even go near to 100%.

_____________________________

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RE: Units with energy weapons / engines won't refuel - 7/6/2020 2:13:13 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxador

I can't point links but the SHQ is:

Sent / Requested
SHQ > Zone: 18781/18781
SHQ > Unit: 7018/7330
Zone > SHQ : 51465/51465
Replace: 25/85

Logistical Points Usage
SHQ > Zone : 7694/11742
SHQ > Unit : 6461 / 23485
Zone > SHQ : 7524/8807
Replacement: 875/23485

The bottleneck is also pretty darn green all over and the units that need the stuff are sitting right outside the SHQ so they're the closest to it. I can have 50000 infantry all the way across the map fully resupplied every turn but everyone that needs energy is just getting the shaft


I guess you got 23485 Logistics. And the spread is set to 50%/100%/40%/100%. Or maybe 25%/50%/20%/50%? It is never a good idea to give anything 100%.
While this is not properly documented, it appears:
First the SHQ does a pass with the Limits.
If there are any points left, it does a nother pass without the limits.
Only what is left after that ends up with "current".

Zone retreivel may run into the Limit soon-ish. But as long as the other figures stay that low, there will be plenty of capacity for a 2nd pass to pick up the slack.

Aside from a bug, my best bet is still that the SHQ Energy Storage is lower then what is used during SHQ > Zone. So there is no energy in storage, when the Units request it.
But by Zone > SHQ it has been refilled.

(in reply to Foxador)
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RE: Units with energy weapons / engines won't refuel - 7/6/2020 3:50:42 PM   
jimwinsor


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I ran into a similar problem during a campaign, and solved it by building more energy production in many Zones (it is very helpful your basic solar panel only takes one turn to build). But I think zgrssd is right, it is essentially a battery problem. Energy in your SHQ battery at the start of your turn goes to pay Zone power shortfalls first, and then units. So building more energy storage would help, as would more energy generation in the Zones that are using the most power (so as to reduce the Zone demands from the SHQ in the first step).

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RE: Units with energy weapons / engines won't refuel - 7/6/2020 6:27:04 PM   
Foxador

 

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Joined: 7/5/2020
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The SHQ was set to whatever the default is I don't really mess with that. I didn't have batteries cause I never got that tech, I got the laser tech through a event while I was still using automatic weapons and it sounded like a good idea at the time to use since I had a lot of energy to spare.

Anyways, like I mentioned, it got fixed for whatever reason when I reloaded that old autosave after a restart of the game so I'm still going to chalk it up to a bug since it was broken till I shut down and reloaded

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