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Buying CMO, but need to know the truth

 
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Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/5/2020 2:57:22 AM   
bladesinger79


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What is the truth I seek? Simple: BUGS. How buggy is this game compared to the predecessor, CMANO? I don't feel like spending $79+ on a buggy game to date.

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"No Sir, I don't think that's a good idea at all." -last words from unnamed NCO before falling into an enemy ambush.
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RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/5/2020 4:05:01 AM   
boogabooga

 

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Far less buggy than 6 months ago, but certainly still some issues.

I would say read the current threads in the tech support forum and decide for yourself.

It's worth it, IMHO, especially with corrective patches coming every week or two.

(in reply to bladesinger79)
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RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/5/2020 6:36:53 AM   
Dimitris


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https://m.signalvnoise.com/software-has-bugs-this-is-normal/

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RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/5/2020 9:30:47 AM   
Lowlaner2012

 

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IMHO the game is in pretty good shape and I'm pretty OCD about things like that...

There are a couple of bugs here and there but nothing anywhere near game breaking...

I'm also finding it runs faster and smoother than CMANO, even on my ancient AMD Tri-Core cpu and Nvidia GTX 1050...

The dev support is as good as it was with CMANO..

If I was you I'd go for it,it's a great game 😎

< Message edited by Lowlaner2012 -- 7/5/2020 9:32:51 AM >

(in reply to Dimitris)
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RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/5/2020 12:03:29 PM   
Sardaukar


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From: Finland/Israel
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"You cannot handle the truth!"

But CMO is pretty good "bug-wise". Definitely very playable.

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"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


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RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/5/2020 1:35:17 PM   
Primarchx


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Has some bugs but the dev team has been supporting this game without fail for going on a decade. This is not just another title.

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RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/5/2020 1:39:25 PM   
bladesinger79


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All sounds good. Thanks fellow war-fans.

_____________________________

"No Sir, I don't think that's a good idea at all." -last words from unnamed NCO before falling into an enemy ambush.

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RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/5/2020 4:48:25 PM   
drakk0r

 

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If you already have the predecessor, why not just play it and wait until the inevitable next version is released? By then maybe they'll have added multiplayer that was promised for the original release.

(in reply to bladesinger79)
Post #: 8
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/5/2020 5:06:56 PM   
jacktimes2


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From: NY
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My personal truth is that I bought this game a couple of weeks ago and have already sunk more than 50 hours into it.

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RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/5/2020 7:03:03 PM   
Dimitris


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quote:

ORIGINAL: drakk0r
If you already have the predecessor, why not just play it and wait until the inevitable next version is released? By then maybe they'll have added multiplayer that was promised for the original release.


Promised? Where? Link?

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RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/5/2020 7:29:36 PM   
drakk0r

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris


quote:

ORIGINAL: drakk0r
If you already have the predecessor, why not just play it and wait until the inevitable next version is released? By then maybe they'll have added multiplayer that was promised for the original release.


Promised? Where? Link?


As I recall it was mentioned prior to release on the warfaresims forums, which appear to be down or no longer in service.

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 11
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/5/2020 9:27:32 PM   
LargeDiameterBomb

 

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Although I don't find the developer's line of argumentation - "All software has bugs" so implicitly everything is ok and you shouldn't worry and just buy our game - persuasive, since many bugs that have been present in CMANO/CMO and since fixed, plus probably some bugs in CMANO/CMO I have never encountered, make the game basically unplayable.
For instance the 4K bug forced me to stop playing CMANO for about half a year. There was no solution that was available that wouldn't have taken 5-10 minutes to implement everytime I wanted to play CMANO.
So a more truthful statement, from my experience, would be "Our software is unusable x % of the time, but bugs are common in all software so don't think about that and go on and consume product".
It's a little insulting to hear that argument when there are a collection of bugs that in practice make the game unplayable in many, sometimes most scenarios, such as the bug that lasted for a month that made submarines "jump" instanteouly 1-3 nm distances on the map and the bug that made submarines go to -3 m depth where they were detected by any surface search radar. EBough about that.

However, I don't find CMO to be more buggy than CMANO, instead it is, for me at least, plagued by about as many severe bugs, and 0 % more slightly annoying minor bugs that however are pervasive (Although one disappeared in the last update - my cursor now shows the real in-game distance to a selected unit - sincere thanks for that, devs!).

So, the bugs in CMO doesn't really matter for me, except one:

The bug I persistently encounter and which in practice makes the game unplayable was there at the start of CMO for me and it concerns flights of fixed-wing a/c displaying strange altitude choosing behavior logic, sometimes/often diving down to minimum altitude ASL and staying there even if no order to dive has been given manually and I haven't noticed anything that should make the flight section go to minimum altitude ASL.
Also, very often the a/c don't respond (Correctly) to manually set levels of altitude, both when not assigned to missions and when assigned to missions, often staying at minimum altude ASL or starting climbing and the 15-30 seconds later having a set altitude of 6 m again in the F2 screen and being at minimium altitude ASL.

This happens for me in approximately 40-60 %, as a very rough guess, of updates (Without any special pattern regarding to what updates includes according to change logs) and it basically makes the game unplayable in any scenario with more than three sections of a/c (And I now mostly play large scenarios w 100+ a/c) since constant micro-managment is required to see that your a/c sections hasn't dived down to 30 m ASL and is wasting fuel and now cannot reach it's intended strike target or stay as part of a CAP until I have a new section with a CAP-loadout available. Also, if a flight has decided to go down to minimum height they are very ill-prepared to respond properly to incoming hostile fighters if they are flying CAP.

It seems the last updated have fixed it for me for now, before that it was present for a few months of updates, before then the problem was intermittent, the problem appearing from time to time. This is since the first few weeks after the game was relased, where I had the same problem and reported it and it was fixed in a very reasonable amount of time but it reapperad early this year.

However, this is not different from CMANO for me, I have for the last few years, had problems with flight height logic keeping in both CMANO and CMO that I never had when the game was new and I have, after having bought all additions and DLC (Except the last LIVE DLC) since CMANO was released just to support the devs, rapidly lost interest in the game since CMO was released, but you might be much more lucky than I have been if you haven't experienced this particular problem before.

I should also say that the devs are often very good at fixing bugs in a few weeks if it's a specific problem and you can provide a save that shows that specific problem occurring.
If it's a more diffuse bug and many people aren't complaining about it don't expect too much (I certainly don't blame the devs regarding diffuse problems not being fixed rapidly, though, and miracles happen - As with my cursor now showing the right distance to a selected unit).
I reported the height heeping logic bug when the game was new and the devs fixed it properly in a few weeks but since the problem reappeard quite fast I just started to drop interest.

I must however admit that it's not solely the bugs that have made me lose interest in CMO but to a lesser degree also that when good suggestions come from people who have been hanging on the forum for long, the devs listen, if good suggestions come from somebody who has 25 posts it will probably not even get an answer, even if a sentence would do. Some guy with a low post count told me he had asked if there were any plans on implmenting a physics engine and using modern graphics cards to do the calculations, an excellent idea that could be stretched to implementing a proper drag and graviationatn model and using it for ballistics, airplane performance, climb rates and turn rates, and such but he hadn't gotten an answer as far as I remember.
So not all is bad regarding bugs, in no way. I guyess many people play the game without anything but minor bugs that only slightly detracts from the game experience.

I hope this gives you a gamer's perspective on how the game can appear regarding bugs.
I should add it's not without a slight feeling of sadness I realize I have lost my passion for this game (I see CMANO/CMO as one game) - which is the only game I have played for approx five years and used to be so passionate about - since it is already so very good except for some recurring bugs that makes it unplayable, s game which has such tremendous potential in so many areas, especially with the revolution in computing power and AI we are just beginning to see the fruits of now.

PS. If I were a billionaire I would donate a hundred million USD to the dev team to use to realize their vision. I just want a game that is playable, most of all, and realistic and I hold no grudges towards any dev.

< Message edited by LargeDiameterBomb -- 7/5/2020 11:11:09 PM >

(in reply to drakk0r)
Post #: 12
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/5/2020 9:51:37 PM   
Dimitris


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Joined: 7/31/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: drakk0r


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris


quote:

ORIGINAL: drakk0r
If you already have the predecessor, why not just play it and wait until the inevitable next version is released? By then maybe they'll have added multiplayer that was promised for the original release.


Promised? Where? Link?


As I recall it was mentioned prior to release on the warfaresims forums, which appear to be down or no longer in service.


So, completely unsubstantiated hearsay then. Thank you.

We never promised MP for the initial release. I know because I ran that forum.

< Message edited by Dimitris -- 7/5/2020 11:16:29 PM >


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RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/5/2020 11:50:41 PM   
FTBSS

 

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To be honest this the previous version of the current version of this game CMO was the most supported game/software I have ever purchased, the developers have continued that with this newer version. I feel like the entertainment and educational value of this Game/Sim is well worth the money I have spent on it.

The development team is responsive to the customers they interact with us all the time answering questions, developing new features, (and most importantly in my view), updating the database.

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 14
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/6/2020 1:03:03 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 5049
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But let's face it, no matter how big and deep the game is, there are the OCD types that call it unplayable because that one thing doesn't do what they want.

Considering the complexity of the game, there are always going to be things that don't quite work in detail. But with a global foot print, then of thousands of units, and a span of 70 years, you can find hundreds of scenarios to play that can exclude that one thing. It will eventually get fixed.

(in reply to FTBSS)
Post #: 15
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/6/2020 12:11:18 PM   
drakk0r

 

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Joined: 11/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

quote:

ORIGINAL: drakk0r


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris


quote:

ORIGINAL: drakk0r
If you already have the predecessor, why not just play it and wait until the inevitable next version is released? By then maybe they'll have added multiplayer that was promised for the original release.


Promised? Where? Link?


As I recall it was mentioned prior to release on the warfaresims forums, which appear to be down or no longer in service.


So, completely unsubstantiated hearsay then. Thank you.

We never promised MP for the initial release. I know because I ran that forum.


It's difficult for me to substantiate something when the only proof is on your forums which are no longer online. But I'm willing to concede that I must have been mistaken. So how did that happen? Did the devs ever give hope to players that it might some day happen? If you ran the forum then you must have it all archived. I wonder what could have been said to have led me and others to believe something like that would make it in the original game. Or maybe I'm an idiot and imagined it all.

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 16
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/6/2020 2:24:10 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2099
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Status: online
drakk0r - MP has been debated over the years, but was never promised. Perhaps you are confusing features in the PRO version with the commercial version.

"Arguably eclipsing v1.14 as the most significant CPE release so far, v1.15 incorporates two brand-new features that have long dominated the wishlists of our customers:

1) WEGO-style multiplayer. Users can now host, join and play multiplayer game sessions using the familiar CPE user interface. There are several important characteristics that define this functionality in its current implementation:

Currently up to 16 players are supported per session."

https://www.warfaresims.com/

_____________________________

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Post #: 17
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/6/2020 10:57:54 PM   
wqc12345


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From: San Francisco, CA
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Not really buggy, tho I occasionally find weird ones (like cargo drops in Lua, odd to me). Its a solid game, speed vastly improved with large unit scenarios, it's a fun game to develop scenarios with..

(in reply to kevinkins)
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RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/7/2020 4:48:21 AM   
Rob322

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: drakk0r


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

quote:

ORIGINAL: drakk0r


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris


quote:

ORIGINAL: drakk0r
If you already have the predecessor, why not just play it and wait until the inevitable next version is released? By then maybe they'll have added multiplayer that was promised for the original release.


Promised? Where? Link?


As I recall it was mentioned prior to release on the warfaresims forums, which appear to be down or no longer in service.


So, completely unsubstantiated hearsay then. Thank you.

We never promised MP for the initial release. I know because I ran that forum.


It's difficult for me to substantiate something when the only proof is on your forums which are no longer online. But I'm willing to concede that I must have been mistaken. So how did that happen? Did the devs ever give hope to players that it might some day happen? If you ran the forum then you must have it all archived. I wonder what could have been said to have led me and others to believe something like that would make it in the original game. Or maybe I'm an idiot and imagined it all.


Then this is your lucky day. the Warfaresims website is still there, still being contributed to and has archives going back to 2006 that are easily accessible. You can research it yourself https://www.warfaresims.com/

(in reply to drakk0r)
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RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/7/2020 6:26:24 PM   
drakk0r

 

Posts: 24
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob322

Then this is your lucky day. the Warfaresims website is still there, still being contributed to and has archives going back to 2006 that are easily accessible. You can research it yourself https://www.warfaresims.com/


My lucky days must be less interesting than yours.


< Message edited by drakk0r -- 7/7/2020 6:27:16 PM >

(in reply to Rob322)
Post #: 20
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/7/2020 7:03:23 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 8070
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From: Finland/Israel
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Works for me.

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Post #: 21
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/7/2020 7:25:00 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 5049
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Works for me. Your just unlucky.

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RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/7/2020 7:26:52 PM   
jacktimes2


Posts: 104
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It's not working because you typed "forum/" at the end of the link instead of just clicking on it.

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Post #: 23
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/7/2020 7:28:33 PM   
thewood1

 

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btw, the MP "promise" is classic internet. A player comes in and asks when is MP going to available. The devs don't respond negatively. On a couple wargaming sites threads pop up claiming MP is coming. It circles back here that somehow the devs said MP is coming soon and it was promised. Everything wrong about information management on the web rolled into a single issue.

Someone who seems relatively new to the game comes in demanding why a promised feature isn't out yet. Without ever doing any research or reading on their own. Yes, classic internet.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 24
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/7/2020 7:34:07 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 5049
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Status: online
https://www.wargamer.com/articles/command-modern-operations-multiplayer/

Thats as close as you're going to find. And it was only a few months ago. Talk about reading between the lines and impatience.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 25
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/7/2020 7:53:02 PM   
drakk0r

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 11/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jacktimes2

It's not working because you typed "forum/" at the end of the link instead of just clicking on it.


I didn't type anything in, I clicked the link on their main page and took the screen shot.

(in reply to jacktimes2)
Post #: 26
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/7/2020 7:57:35 PM   
Rob322

 

Posts: 485
Joined: 8/16/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: drakk0r


quote:

ORIGINAL: jacktimes2

It's not working because you typed "forum/" at the end of the link instead of just clicking on it.


I didn't type anything in, I clicked the link on their main page and took the screen shot.


Don't know what to tell you. The link I sent was the link I used.

(in reply to drakk0r)
Post #: 27
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/7/2020 8:03:27 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 708
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<shrugs>

The WFS tweets at end say

quote:

It is initially developed for (and funded by) military customers. Once deployed, we can then further develop for commercial version (many changes due to different priorities). This BTW is a good example of the symbiotic relationship between civ & pro.


Pretty clear no? Maybe put this big deal to bed and focus on fun stuff.

Bill

(in reply to Rob322)
Post #: 28
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/7/2020 8:10:59 PM   
Rob322

 

Posts: 485
Joined: 8/16/2004
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I agree. To the original poster, if you haven't made up your mind, this version is great. Nothing in life (or software) is 100% perfect but it's pretty solid right now and I've watched the developer squash any bugs that get discovered pretty fast. I've bought plenty of games since I bought this version last year and I keep coming back to it all the time.

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 29
RE: Buying CMO, but need to know the truth - 7/7/2020 8:13:51 PM   
drakk0r

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 11/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob322


quote:

ORIGINAL: drakk0r


quote:

ORIGINAL: jacktimes2

It's not working because you typed "forum/" at the end of the link instead of just clicking on it.


I didn't type anything in, I clicked the link on their main page and took the screen shot.


Don't know what to tell you. The link I sent was the link I used.


The link you sent goes to their webpage, which works. On their webpage, they link their forums, which does not work. It doesn't matter much anyway. It was possible the discussion I'm recalling was on their beta tester forums, which I'm sure I no longer have access to should they even exist any more.

< Message edited by drakk0r -- 7/7/2020 8:15:15 PM >

(in reply to Rob322)
Post #: 30
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