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RE: Newbie Questions - 7/8/2020 6:30:09 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Janaka

2. Amphibious Landings. In other war games, amphibious landings suffer penalties when they hit the shores to simulate disorganisation


There is a % chance of it in this game too when landing on a coastal hex that is in enemy hands.

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Post #: 31
RE: Newbie Questions - 7/13/2020 8:14:50 AM   
Janaka

 

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Started up a new game, as the Allies this time.

First question: I can not sail any Allied vessels into the Baltic, not even a submarine. Will I be locked out of the Baltic for the whole game?

Germany just annexed Denmark which may have something to do with it? Although, as Axis vessels can sail through Allied-held straits of Gibraltar, I don't see why Allied vessels shouldn't be able to access the Baltic?

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Post #: 32
RE: Newbie Questions - 7/13/2020 9:22:45 AM   
Xsillione

 

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Yep, you will be blocked. Denmark is the key, neutral Denmark won't let most in or out, Germany can skip it with the Kiel Canal (and this control of the Denmark was the reason to build it.) On the bright side, the SU baltic Fleet will spawn there, and they will play as your baltic units, as long as they exists for one reason or another.

If you want to enter the Baltic, than liberate the Danish capital, there is a good reason to go to norway anyway, and from there is is little more than a jump just.

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Post #: 33
RE: Newbie Questions - 7/13/2020 10:28:37 AM   
Janaka

 

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Okay thanks.

Next question: Do naval units earn experience for bombardments?

And I mentioned this one before - who thought it was a good idea to put the quit button next to the save button. I've gone and done it again!!

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Post #: 34
RE: Newbie Questions - 7/13/2020 12:53:00 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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You can earn experience some from bombardments, but probably not much and if you are shelling a resource or if you stay near the coast then you may well receive damage in return, thus negating the experience gains from bombarding.

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Post #: 35
RE: Newbie Questions - 7/13/2020 1:51:09 PM   
amandkm

 

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ElvisJohnRambo has this down to a science. When he was taking me to school in a couple of games last month, he made excellent use of coastal bombardament to train his crews.

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Post #: 36
RE: Newbie Questions - 7/16/2020 6:02:40 PM   
Janaka

 

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So I reckon its time to wave the white flag and admit that the the game, even at green -20%MMP, is just too much for me.

I'm trying to apply what I've learned and trying to emulate what the AI did but everything is disastrous. I find the combat results to be inexplicable; for instance, fully upgraded asw sub-hunting destroyers in the AI's hands are deadly, but for me they can't hit a thing, instead the AI subs sink my destroyers. I find some other things an exercise in pure frustration - such as the AI unerringly locating and ambushing my ships time-after-time, no matter how I try to hide, and then running off again so I can't hit them back. Or how when Spain joined the Axis in June 1941 my entire RN fleet (which I had only just sent) becomes trapped in the Med and cannot exit (this bit was a cause of despair, the final straw that made me quit).

I'm simply not cut out for this game. The difficulty level places it way out of my league. I think I'm done.


< Message edited by Janaka -- 7/16/2020 10:17:54 PM >


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Post #: 37
RE: Newbie Questions - 7/17/2020 3:01:29 AM   
amandkm

 

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Maybe what you should do is play a human opponent. Given your newness, we could take it slow, and you could ask questions as we go.

As an alternative, you could save and then take the other side in an AI game (e.g. play a turn as Axis, then save and play as allies. You would be able to get a fee for both sides and you would have enough of an 'intel' advantage to negate the AI's advantages.

It would be a shame to just give up. The game can be tough to master, but it's a LOT of fun.

Let me know if you want a MP game.


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Post #: 38
RE: Newbie Questions - 7/17/2020 3:30:51 AM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Janaka

So I reckon its time to wave the white flag and admit that the the game, even at green -20%MMP, is just too much for me.

I'm trying to apply what I've learned and trying to emulate what the AI did but everything is disastrous. I find the combat results to be inexplicable; for instance, fully upgraded asw sub-hunting destroyers in the AI's hands are deadly, but for me they can't hit a thing, instead the AI subs sink my destroyers. I find some other things an exercise in pure frustration - such as the AI unerringly locating and ambushing my ships time-after-time, no matter how I try to hide, and then running off again so I can't hit them back. Or how when Spain joined the Axis in June 1941 my entire RN fleet (which I had only just sent) becomes trapped in the Med and cannot exit (this bit was a cause of despair, the final straw that made me quit).

I'm simply not cut out for this game. The difficulty level places it way out of my league. I think I'm done.



Jananka, what kind of gaming background are you coming from? There is a learning curve to so of the game mechanics, such as Supply, Operands, Unit Types, Long Term Planning, and Regional Battlefront methods.

Many of us here, have played WW-2 Grand Strategy games for years, so maybe you're new to this genre of history. Most of us are WW-2 history nuts, who have probably watched every WW2 movie ever made and have watched over 400+ hours of YouTube history on the subject, and have had family members in the war.

This game is combination of Poker, Chess, Golf patience, practice, timing, adjustments, Avalon Hill's 1970's 3rd Reich & beer/pretzel game Axis & Allies.



< Message edited by ElvisJJonesRambo -- 7/17/2020 3:33:17 AM >


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Post #: 39
RE: Newbie Questions - 7/19/2020 10:16:04 PM   
Janaka

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo
Jananka, what kind of gaming background are you coming from?


On a strategic scale, over the years, I've regularly played games like TAOW III, HoI III, Decisive Campaigns, Ageod's Thirty Years War, Civil War II, BoA, AJE. These are all games I can play and beat. But Strategic Command is different. it throws up so many anomalous situations that perplex me. I cannot compete with or replicate the AI.

For instance some things I don't understand, or feel are implemented in unintuitive ways:
>When the Allies control Gibraltar, Axis ships can enter/exit the Med, but when the Axis controls Gibraltar, Allied ships cannot enter/exit the Med.
>Or how about a British Battleship off the coast of England, full strength and fully upgraded (211 I think it was) bumped into by an Axis sub - that sub takes no contact damage then hits my BB for 5 damage without loss (SS was 10 strength, no upgrades), and then a Spanish cruiser (CL 4-strength, no upgrades) follows up the sub and hits my BB for another 5 damage without loss to sink it. The odds should have been suicidal for the Spanish cruiser, it is out-classed, out-ranged, out-gunned, has less strength and no upgrades versus a fully upgraded BB; so how does it deliver 5 damage without taking any damage in return? I'm perplexed.
> Or how do AI carriers regularly launch successful airstrikes against my land and sea units without taking loss in return, yet my carrier planes get shot down in huge numbers (I'm set to naval/tactical) almost every time in similar strikes - including versus targets that have no anti-air capability and no interceptor cover?
> How do Afrika Korps tanks freely roam the deep desert in sweeping flanking manoeuvres without any heed to supply, when my units struggle to move far at all due to those same supply and terrain issues (I don't see any major difference between our HQ units or supply routes/sources)?
>How do approaching landing craft regularly hit entrenched coastal defenders for 4 or 5 damage, and without receiving any damage in return? In fact, why do landing craft have any attack value at all?
>Why do coastal defenders (including gun emplacements) not get to fire at approaching landing craft? I know this would require an auto-defend option (like defensive arty fire), but coastal defences would open up with everything they have - instead they don't get to fire at all but are instead fired upon - twice!; once by the landing craft and then by the unit that disembarks from the landing craft without any impediment.


On Green -20% MPP I would not expect the AI to seemingly achieve the seemingly impossible so regularly - or at all. See Spanish cruiser example above. I don't achieve the same results when trying to replicate what the AI does.

I quit my last attempt in late 1941 (playing Allies) when: I had lost Poland, France, Yugoslavia, Portugal and Egypt (as expected), but China and Russia were on the verge of capitulation too (and its only 1941 remember). Plus the RN was trapped in the Med and the US Pacific navy reduced to just two carriers - everything else sunk, and all without a single Japanese casualty. So, no ships left to use, planes that don't fly (due to never-ending rain on my turns, while AI could fly most turns), and land forces rapidly depleting - far quicker than I could hope to replace.

I imagine I'd need to hold until what - about mid-43 - to overstretch the Axis and start turning the tide? But it was still 1941 and at the rate I was losing territory, corps and ships there was pretty much nothing left to hold out with. I expected to be losing, but being annihilated and being on the receiving end of many inexplicable combat results (see whinges about Spanish cruiser and amphibious landings as examples above), it all became disheartening and not fun anymore.


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"Gentlemen, we're in the stickiest situation since Sticky the stick insect got stuck on a sticky bun" - Capt. E. Blackadder.

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Post #: 40
RE: Newbie Questions - 7/20/2020 7:43:45 AM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


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@Janaka --- Lol, you're very observant. Look at the bright side, in the Year 2020, this game has evolved to one of the best. I started playing Panzer General in 1997 on an old IBM-386 computer.

I can agree with some of your points. There's room for improvement, there always is.

1) Gibraltar - Yeah, it's a tad flippant. I've never been there, haven't read any historical accounts, of the Spanish Rock during WW2. So I'll pass any comments on this one.
2) British BB running into U-Boat -- It's a strategic game, need to screen with Destroyer to be safe. Tech levels, supply, weather and a tad bit of randomness this happens. Have you tried the "Naval Mod" which changes naval play?
3) Carrier Attacks --- Broad subject, cannot comment without detail. All kinds of factors matter to determine outcome. Plus, I don't play the A.I., so no idea how that's programmed.
4) Axis Afrika Supply --- Disagree with you here, supply is supply. How it works is quite specific. One bad move (or good move) can make or break this theater. The MedFront and Egypt is all about supply, especially Tobruk. Most good Allied players pound that port, so I rarely get a chance to get a "Superman Panzer" sweeping the sands. Germans have Leadership tech advantage, Armour tech + high morale early in the game. The quality of tanks is huge in WW2. Any advantage can be exploited. Even thought things may "appear even", there's something your missing on the situation. Panzers aren't flanking in Egypt, they are the "big knockout punch". You gotta know who to delivered the key attack. One screw-up in Egypt, can setup either side back and swing the momentum.
5) Landing Craft --- I've commented on Island landings. How do you make a Strategic game, calculate an Island battle? Typical Island battle with land units didn't take forever. So looking at the length of turns, what else can you do? I'd argue for change in this category. Maybe units can land on top of each other and slug it out. 1-hex island battles aren't even battles. Either you ping-pong off, or wipe them out. Entrenchments and types of units matter. More exchanges would be nice. Yet another type of unit which is between a garrison and a corp, maybe? Here's an idea, maybe the defender can choose "type of defense"? Like "meet them at the beaches", "hide in the caves", or "fight to the death". I agree, the 3 beach landings at D-Day, you've landed, there's no bounce and run. Maybe lock the units in combat for a turn.
6) Coastal Guns --- Battleship guns are too far out, and moving targets, not sure Coastal Guns could even hit them. Far as landing craft, well, back to #5. Maybe some new logic could be in order.


Now, far as you getting mopped up by the A.I. in 1941 Axis. Dude, I lose Egypt by an determined Axis player, but you don't have to lose the Holy Lands. Additionally, maybe you need to smash Tobruk port. 75% of Allied humans do that. Additionally, top players are slashing Tobruk in 1940 + doing Carrier attacks on Italian Ships. Playing the Allies can be a downer, in the early years. But come on dude, you cannot expect to have a fair fight in that year, just like history. Germans had the 50mm Tanks against Polish Horses, super light tanks. The French were Blitz, the British weren't exactly an oil machine in Egypt, so counter punching like Jon Bones Jones isn't in the cards.

Legend,
-EJR

_____________________________

You a photographer? You seen much combat? You're a real comedian. Well I got a joke for you. I'm gonna tear you a new a-hole. You talk the talk, do you walk the walk?

(in reply to Janaka)
Post #: 41
RE: Newbie Questions - 7/20/2020 11:51:59 AM   
Hubert Cater

 

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Hi Janaka,

2) Subs are at their most effective when enemy naval units bump into them, this is a "surprise" attack by the sub and will be the same whether playing against the AI or a human player. If it is the other way around then, e.g. an AI sub moved and was surprised by a naval unit and still inflicted heavy damage on your naval unit, then this could be a bug but I'd have to see the turn in action to know for sure.

3) AI carriers will follow the same rules as a human played carrier, and JJR is correct there are so many factors that could be at play here, I'd have to see a saved turn to better understand what you are seeing here.

5) Landing craft is the same for the AI and for a human player, they will have a chance to engage the defending unit before disembarking

6) Coastal guns should fire on any amphibious transport that ends its move (prior to disembarkation) adjacent to the coastal gun. This here too is the same for the AI and a human player.


* * *


In terms of balance tipping in game, generally the high point for the Axis is mid 1942 before the Allies can start effectively pushing back. This can vary of course from game to game and from opponent to opponent, but agreed that what you've seen is not entirely abnormal and almost to be expected. Perhaps try another game and see if you are able to push the Axis back around 1942.

A helpful thing to remember is that the deeper the Axis push into the USSR the more supply trouble they will start to face as supply will take some time to catch up to their forward units, and sometimes giving some ground via token forward defence and holding back stronger units for when you feel like you can turn the tide is a typical strategy for the Allies there. Waiting for the Soviet winter, and lining up defensive lines behind rivers deeper into the USSR and you should be able to bait the AI into some encirclements and destruction of their units.

Hope this helps and if you have any turns you'd like me to take a look at please feel free to send them to support@furysoftware.com. Having a saved turn before the AI makes their moves are the most helpful.

Hubert

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Post #: 42
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