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Unusual situation with zone separated from supply source.

 
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Unusual situation with zone separated from supply source. - 7/1/2020 3:52:43 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

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In my current game (see Molon Labe AAR) I created through my own experimentation with the game an unusual logistical situation. I decided to play protectorate cards on two nearby and friendly minors, just to see what would happen, and both accepted. I had a common border with one but not the other, which was on the other side of the first one. The one without a common border with me was immediately invaded by a hostile, militaristic major power. I got a message saying that the invaded minor had decided to join me, and I had a new zone. Also that now made me at war with the hostile major power.

Okay, interesting. I took a look at it. It had lots of militia infantry including several powerful units. I thought, I can work with this. I can create a little powerhouse here. But I quickly realized that isolated zone had no supply/logistics to do anything with. I couldn't supply units. I couldn't build any structures. I couldn't create any units. The message was "no logistical network to hex."

Scheming in my feeble brain I decided, hey, let me create a new SHQ there. Maybe that will enable me to create a separate logistical network in that zone. Nope. Didn't work. I was still unable to do anything in that zone, construct anything, supply my units there, nothing. Zero.

Fortunately I also shared a border with that hostile major. I commenced an invasion, which took the pressure off my isolated zone and gave me time to save it. At this point I now am in the process of creating the logical network connection through my war with the hostile major power and the annexation of the other protectorate. I probably should dismantle my 2nd SHQ, too, to simplify things.

But I have a question.

Was there any way for me to create a separate network in that isolated zone and start building things and supplying my units there while it was completely separated from the rest of my nation, in particular my 1st SHQ? Did I miss something obvious?

< Message edited by jwarrenw13 -- 7/1/2020 4:35:29 PM >
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RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 4:04:32 PM   
zgrssd

 

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You need a SHQ and Logistics to run a region. Minors only need to trace a line to their city. And even majors got quite some free logistics. So their infrastructure tends to be inefficient.

Once you got a SHQ there, it should gather IP from Service Tax.
And you can use your regimewide credits to buy the metal and/or fuel for the 2nd SHQ.

Militia should reimburse you from any expenses after 1-2 turns, so all you need to do is provide a supply line.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 7/1/2020 4:06:32 PM >

(in reply to jwarrenw13)
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RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 4:20:42 PM   
Maerchen

 

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I had the same experience in 1.03. Had that one vassal hapiness around 50-60, So invasion was a no-go. In the end I built a whole road around that friendly carcinoma in my territory. It only had borders with me, and I was lucky I got my logistics and tank battalion there in time after the majors' invasion of the 2nd vassal.


With the new strat cards this should not happen so often, thank you Vic!


_____________________________

Came for Shadow Empire. Will stay for Shadow Empire.

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RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 4:26:43 PM   
Jdane


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I just had a similar experience, and ended up retreating back to my main territory the 10 000 or so militia from the former minor regime that just joined my empire, because I had failed to anticipate this outcome and they were doomed to starve if I left them where they were.

Had I at least built a dirt road leading to the minor's territory, I could quickly have linked it to the SHQ, but the circumstances when the war started made it very impractical.

< Message edited by Jdane -- 7/1/2020 4:27:17 PM >

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RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 4:48:41 PM   
GodwinW


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Hmm, that is somewhat odd. I would also have tried making a second SHQ. It makes sense that that would generate it's own logistics. Did it have a Truck Stop?

(in reply to jwarrenw13)
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RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 5:34:33 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

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From: Monroe, LA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

Hmm, that is somewhat odd. I would also have tried making a second SHQ. It makes sense that that would generate it's own logistics. Did it have a Truck Stop?


Mine did not. It had -- Dome farm, Light industry, Waste, Town Customs, School, Scout Station

One thing I forget during that brief separate zone separate SHQ experiment, was to make 2nd SHQ the HQ for that zone. So my SHQ did not have access to the zone's resources. But considering the assets the zone had, I don't think that would have made any difference.

(in reply to GodwinW)
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RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 5:54:26 PM   
lloydster4

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13
Did I miss something obvious?


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13
One thing I forget during that brief separate zone separate SHQ experiment, was to make 2nd SHQ the HQ for that zone


Case closed

(in reply to jwarrenw13)
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RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 6:02:46 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13


quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

Hmm, that is somewhat odd. I would also have tried making a second SHQ. It makes sense that that would generate it's own logistics. Did it have a Truck Stop?


Mine did not. It had -- Dome farm, Light industry, Waste, Town Customs, School, Scout Station

One thing I forget during that brief separate zone separate SHQ experiment, was to make 2nd SHQ the HQ for that zone. So my SHQ did not have access to the zone's resources. But considering the assets the zone had, I don't think that would have made any difference.

My understanding is that you can only form SHQ's in Zone Cities. Wich means they should automatically "grab" the zone they were formed in.

The city sounds not too bad.
Waste, Town Customs, School, Scout Station - those are all QOL buildings. Nothing really to worry about.

Dome farm gives you some public food. Also the Militia should reimburse you for any Food, Ammo or Fuel that is sent to the Militia Units. And with 1.04beta1, that should even work now:
"-Fixed a bug where Food delivered by Militia to Zone inventory was reported as given, but where it actually was not being added "

Light Industry would give you +25 IP, on top of the Service Tax IP. 1-2 turns, if you can get the metal there.

I made a bug report on the overall situation anyway:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4846362
This may need adressing before Vic has time for "make sure AI plays by the same rules".

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 7/1/2020 6:03:29 PM >

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RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 6:09:10 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

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I just checked and when I formed 2nd SHQ in the zone city, the zone did not automatically change to 2nd SHQ. It is still listed as 1st SHQ.

(in reply to zgrssd)
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RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 6:09:51 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1568
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From: Monroe, LA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lloydster4

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13
Did I miss something obvious?


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13
One thing I forget during that brief separate zone separate SHQ experiment, was to make 2nd SHQ the HQ for that zone


Case closed



(in reply to lloydster4)
Post #: 10
RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 6:12:29 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13

I just checked and when I formed 2nd SHQ in the zone city, the zone did not automatically change to 2nd SHQ. It is still listed as 1st SHQ.

That should maybe be a seperate Bug report?
At least for regions that are isolated from the existing SHQ's, it should grab "everything in range".

(in reply to jwarrenw13)
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RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 6:47:44 PM   
lloydster4

 

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Actually, there might be one more thing here. I believe you'd need to manually re-assign the militia forces to the 2nd SHQ as well.

(in reply to zgrssd)
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RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 6:51:37 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1568
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From: Monroe, LA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13

I just checked and when I formed 2nd SHQ in the zone city, the zone did not automatically change to 2nd SHQ. It is still listed as 1st SHQ.

That should maybe be a seperate Bug report?
At least for regions that are isolated from the existing SHQ's, it should grab "everything in range".


I'm thinking maybe it is WAD. Any time you create a new SHQ, you need to assign zones to it, even the zone where it is created, for it to be fully functional. I'm not sure a change is needed to automatically assign an isolated zone to a newly created SHQ in the isolated zone. It should just be part of the process of setting up the new SHQ, which in this case I forgot to do even though I had successfully set up a separate SHQ including assigning zones to it in my previous game.

I did note, though, that in the manual, at least in me skimming through it, the process of what you need to do to create a fully functional new SHQ is not really covered. In 3.8 in particular, the Zone SHQ function is briefly explained, but I noted that the Transfer function, which allows you to transfer resources between SHQs if there is a logistical connection between them, is omitted and not explained at all.

(in reply to zgrssd)
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RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 6:54:00 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1568
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From: Monroe, LA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lloydster4

Actually, there might be one more thing here. I believe you'd need to manually re-assign the militia forces to the 2nd SHQ as well.


True. I just took a look at that for my zone in question.

(in reply to lloydster4)
Post #: 14
RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 7:47:15 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13


quote:

ORIGINAL: lloydster4

Actually, there might be one more thing here. I believe you'd need to manually re-assign the militia forces to the 2nd SHQ as well.


True. I just took a look at that for my zone in question.

A few images would go a long way towards us helping you.

(in reply to jwarrenw13)
Post #: 15
RE: Unusual situation with zone separated from supply s... - 7/1/2020 7:59:36 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1568
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From: Monroe, LA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13


quote:

ORIGINAL: lloydster4

Actually, there might be one more thing here. I believe you'd need to manually re-assign the militia forces to the 2nd SHQ as well.


True. I just took a look at that for my zone in question.

A few images would go a long way towards us helping you.


Thanks but I understand now what I should have done based on the advice above. To set up that SHQ in an isolated zone, I should have set the zone and the units in the zone to be subordinate to the new SHQ and then gone on from there. At this point the situation is resolved as the zone is no longer isolated and I am building the logistics connection to it. Another thought would be to be very careful setting up protection agreements. On the other hand, I found the situation very interesting and enjoyable, even if I nearly screwed it all up.

As for images, there are a couple of maps at my Molon Labe AAR that show the general situation as it evolved.

(in reply to zgrssd)
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