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Sorry, but another request for game changes.

 
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Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/25/2020 9:44:10 PM   
Fubarno

 

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I just finished a really great game against my son in which I lost as the allies, surrendering in May 1945, but noticed some things that did not make sense and need a patch. I was losing for a good part of the game though in many theaters it was a back and forth affair. I like to play games further into the scenario because we are otherwise just repeating the same early war strategies over and over. The real ďwhat ifĒ stuff happens in the mid late war years and this exposed some things that didnít make sense and could use a fix, in my opinion.
1.) When the USSR surrenders there are suddenly no more partisans. Why? It doesnít make sense. Would the Soviet partisans suddenly give in to fascist occupiers? USSR surrendering should not end the possibility of uprisings and sabotage. Partisans in China continue after the fall of China. I canít recall if partisans are active in the British Isles after they fall, which didnít happen in this game. Defeated France has partisan activity. Am I wrong and if so why?
2.) In our game my son invaded Spain and of course Gibraltar fell to the enemy soon after Spain fell. At this point the seesaw battles in North Africa favored the Axis and the also held the Suez, locking my ships in the Med. Why canít Allied ships pass through the straights of Gibraltar in the same manner as the Axis, with a delay? Again, whatís the rationale of not allowing allied ships to use the same mechanism as the Axis when held by opposing forces?
3.) Why are there no partisan spawn sites in the USA? In my game it was not invaded but I donít see spawn sites if it was and that frankly makes no sense since the US has a patriotic population that has lots of small arms. It would be a rare occurrence but the US and Canada should have partisan spawn sites.
4.) Why canít Germany provide MMP support to Italy? USSR receives support from England and USA, England from USA and her commonwealth countries. Is there a rationale behind this?
5.) Why canít the maritime bomber in Iceland be redeployed somewhere else?

Anyway, great game against my son. Iíve defeated 4 different head to head opponents in multiple games in the past as well as 4 hot seat battles against my son. Until now no human had defeated me. My son just recently defeated two other opponents in email games and now me. The student, 17 years of age, is now the master. Congrats to you Joshua!

Thanks developers for a very fun game, and thanks again for adding turn replays in the hot seat games, which was previously missing.. Cheers!
Post #: 1
RE: Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/25/2020 11:05:20 PM   
Platoonist


Posts: 750
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From: Kila Hana
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Welcome back.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fubarno


1.) When the USSR surrenders there are suddenly no more partisans. Why? It doesnít make sense. Would the Soviet partisans suddenly give in to fascist occupiers? USSR surrendering should not end the possibility of uprisings and sabotage. Partisans in China continue after the fall of China. I canít recall if partisans are active in the British Isles after they fall, which didnít happen in this game. Defeated France has partisan activity. Am I wrong and if so why?


I've often wondered about this too. As the Axis you have to keep garrisons in the Netherlands, Belgium, Yugoslavia and France permanently after they quit. But the far more xenophobic Russians just completely roll over when they are conquered. Seems a bit generous to the Axis.

quote:

2.) In our game my son invaded Spain and of course Gibraltar fell to the enemy soon after Spain fell. At this point the seesaw battles in North Africa favored the Axis and they also held the Suez, locking my ships in the Med. Why canít Allied ships pass through the straits of Gibraltar in the same manner as the Axis, with a delay? Again, whatís the rationale of not allowing allied ships to use the same mechanism as the Axis when held by opposing forces?


As far as I know Axis (Italian) surface ships can only leave the Mediterranean while still at peace with the Allies.. Once at war they locked in too. Or should be. Submarines are another matter.

quote:

3.) Why are there no partisan spawn sites in the USA? In my game it was not invaded but I donít see spawn sites if it was and that frankly makes no sense since the US has a patriotic population that has lots of small arms. It would be a rare occurrence but the US and Canada should have partisan spawn sites.and her commonwealth countries.


Yeah, there should be. The developers probably figured it would be the rare game that devolved to fighting in the USA/Canada proper. If you're fighting in the Appalachians as the Allies the game is probably as good as lost. I'm pleasantly surprised the continental US is in the game at all as most strategic WW2 games tend to treat the Americas as an off-map staging area if even in the game at all.

quote:

4.) Why canít Germany provide MMP support to Italy? USSR receives support from England and USA, England from USA and her commonwealth countries. Is there a rationale behind this?


That's an idea that has been discussed before. Certainly, at the very least Italy depended on Germany for oil to run their navy.

quote:

5.) Why canít the maritime bomber in Iceland be redeployed somewhere else?


If the operation function isn't working to deploy it elsewhere, it could be because Iceland has relatively low supply levels. If you can invest enough in long range aircraft, I think at some point you should be able to fly it out.





< Message edited by Platoonist -- 6/25/2020 11:36:09 PM >


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RE: Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/26/2020 9:46:12 AM   
fluidwill matrix

 

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All good well thought requests.

As a side note I'm fairly certain I've sneaked the lost Italian Destroyer through Gibraltar more than once after war has been declared.

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RE: Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/26/2020 10:22:27 AM   
Torplexed


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I've found I can't get Italian surface ships through Gibraltar. I put them on the proper hex and say yes to the DE, but they don't go through.

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RE: Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/26/2020 11:04:00 AM   
Xsillione

 

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1. SU partisans: If the German player splits the SU with Japan, than the SU as a nation cease to exist, so no partisans. Sad engine limitations, if you want to play beyond the SU surrender, than it is strongly advised to not split the SU, so the partisans stays, and you are forced to garrison, or agree with the Axis player with a number of garrisons that needs to be left inside the occupied SU.

2. Gibraltar pass: Again, engine limitations, sadly a pass hex can only be used by one side only. Yes, there could be a few more preplaced for the allies for this case, but that would be stange too.

3. US partisans: Noone knows the actual partisan numbers for the US in an invasion. Usually everyone thinks they would go out and stop an entire invading army, but currently we can see that the US population cannot stop even a few looters.

4. Italian help: Germany did not send any help to the italians, they took over some of the italian failures and finished as their show, but never sent money or equipment to the italian army or state in any meaningful number. Yes, it could be an option, preferably with some cost for triggering it first time.

5. Since there are zero reason to keep that unit on iceland, it your be just a cheap bomber used elsewhere.

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Post #: 5
RE: Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/26/2020 1:44:41 PM   
Bo Rearguard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fubarno


4.) Why canít Germany provide MMP support to Italy? USSR receives support from England and USA, England from USA and her commonwealth countries. Is there a rationale behind this?


It seems like a Germany-Italy MMP transfer would model history. Such strategic materials as oil, coal, pig iron, and steel in which Italian industry was woefully deficient, were routinely provided by Germany through the rail lines over the Brenner Pass.

However, there should probably be a cap set on the amount of MMPs Germany could send. Hitler could never afford to be as generous as the Allies in terms of foreign aid sent and got less so as the war went poorly.

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Post #: 6
RE: Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/26/2020 9:56:48 PM   
Elessar2


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Note that an event in Crispy's scenarios allow ~15 MPP Ger-Ita transfer.

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Post #: 7
RE: Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/29/2020 12:51:17 AM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


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Would agree on these. Not game changers.

If anything, I'd redesign Partisan activity. Make it more unpredictable

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Post #: 8
RE: Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/29/2020 10:16:44 AM   
BillRunacre

 

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Hi

The Maritime Bomber that can be deployed in Iceland is for service in Iceland as part of the Battle of the Atlantic only:

DE 123 Ė UK: Deploy A Coastal Command Maritime Patrol In Iceland?
Event fires: On the 1st January 1942 if the UK and Iceland are Allied and not surrendered, and
ReykjavŪk is in Allied hands.
Cost of accepting: 100 MPPs (at 50 MPPs a turn for 2 turns).
Yes: Coastal Command deploys a Maritime Patrol at Reykjavik in Iceland. This unit is in Icelandic service
and cannot be Operated for use elsewhere.
No: Nothing.


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RE: Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/29/2020 10:23:54 AM   
BillRunacre

 

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In terms of Gibraltar, the Axis can use it because Spain was friendly to them and they were able to spot Allied shipping passing through the Strait via a chain of fourteen infra-red ship surveillance stations that were built in early 1942 by the Abwehr with the aid of the Spanish navy. If Spain had actually joined the Axis then the chances of Allied shipping passing through would have been minimal because they could have not just been spotted, but also attacked.

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RE: Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/29/2020 10:25:10 AM   
BillRunacre

 

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In terms of US partisans, there are some on the west coast, but for some reason none on the east coast. Probably because a German or Italian invasion was considered extremely unlikely when designing the campaign, and the US do get the National Guard mobilizing on invasion.

Is an invasion of the east coast a frequent enough occurrence to warrant adding them in?

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RE: Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/29/2020 10:29:38 AM   
BillRunacre

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xsillione

SU partisans: If the German player splits the SU with Japan, than the SU as a nation cease to exist, so no partisans. Sad engine limitations, if you want to play beyond the SU surrender, than it is strongly advised to not split the SU, so the partisans stays, and you are forced to garrison, or agree with the Axis player with a number of garrisons that needs to be left inside the occupied SU.


This is correct, a country that doesn't exist anymore cannot deploy Partisans.

The question of splitting the USSR is a difficult one, one we have thought about previously because this issue has been raised before, and unfortunately not offering the opportunity to split the USSR is also fraught with some difficulties, e.g. if Japan takes the last Soviet capital then all of the USSR surrenders to Japan and Germany gets nothing, which is hardly ideal.

So the best bet is for the Axis player to respond to the Decision in accordance with their own judgement of how the game is progressing and what effect either splitting or not splitting the USSR will have on the fighting that continues after the USSR is out of the war.

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RE: Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/29/2020 2:54:03 PM   
Xsillione

 

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Would not be an option to keep the german side of the SU as SU, and give the Japan part to Japan? France also gets split up, but the original parts keep the french partisans, and even the vichy can generate partisans of its own.

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Post #: 13
RE: Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/29/2020 10:50:21 PM   
Dalwin

 

Posts: 337
Joined: 3/31/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fubarno

I just finished a really great game against my son in which I lost as the allies, surrendering in May 1945, but noticed some things that did not make sense and need a patch. I was losing for a good part of the game though in many theaters it was a back and forth affair. I like to play games further into the scenario because we are otherwise just repeating the same early war strategies over and over. The real ďwhat ifĒ stuff happens in the mid late war years and this exposed some things that didnít make sense and could use a fix, in my opinion.
1.) When the USSR surrenders there are suddenly no more partisans. Why? It doesnít make sense. Would the Soviet partisans suddenly give in to fascist occupiers? USSR surrendering should not end the possibility of uprisings and sabotage. Partisans in China continue after the fall of China. I canít recall if partisans are active in the British Isles after they fall, which didnít happen in this game. Defeated France has partisan activity. Am I wrong and if so why?
2.) In our game my son invaded Spain and of course Gibraltar fell to the enemy soon after Spain fell. At this point the seesaw battles in North Africa favored the Axis and the also held the Suez, locking my ships in the Med. Why canít Allied ships pass through the straights of Gibraltar in the same manner as the Axis, with a delay? Again, whatís the rationale of not allowing allied ships to use the same mechanism as the Axis when held by opposing forces?
3.) Why are there no partisan spawn sites in the USA? In my game it was not invaded but I donít see spawn sites if it was and that frankly makes no sense since the US has a patriotic population that has lots of small arms. It would be a rare occurrence but the US and Canada should have partisan spawn sites.
4.) Why canít Germany provide MMP support to Italy? USSR receives support from England and USA, England from USA and her commonwealth countries. Is there a rationale behind this?
5.) Why canít the maritime bomber in Iceland be redeployed somewhere else?

Anyway, great game against my son. Iíve defeated 4 different head to head opponents in multiple games in the past as well as 4 hot seat battles against my son. Until now no human had defeated me. My son just recently defeated two other opponents in email games and now me. The student, 17 years of age, is now the master. Congrats to you Joshua!

Thanks developers for a very fun game, and thanks again for adding turn replays in the hot seat games, which was previously missing.. Cheers!

I think these are all valid points and would like to see all of those changes.

Additionally, Why is the choice to switch the Norwegian shipping route a one time thing? This makes no sense at all. If you gamble on being able to hold Narvik and navally dominate the Arctic route, you are forbidden from backing away from that decision later.


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Post #: 14
RE: Sorry, but another request for game changes. - 6/30/2020 3:30:15 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xsillione

Would not be an option to keep the german side of the SU as SU, and give the Japan part to Japan? France also gets split up, but the original parts keep the french partisans, and even the vichy can generate partisans of its own.


The trouble is that if the USSR has surrendered to Japan because the Japanese took its last capital, then Germany would get nothing via this method, because the surrendered Soviet territory would remain under Japanese control, while the eastern part would transfer to Japan and not have Partisans.

It may of course be rare for Japan to be the one to take the last Soviet capital, but that possibility exists.

You have given me an idea though, a fresh angle to look at this from at least. I don't want to promise anything though because it may well be something I tried once before, but we shall see. Keep your fingers crossed!

< Message edited by BillRunacre -- 6/30/2020 3:31:33 PM >


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