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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Mods and Scenarios >> Scenario creation accuracy Page: [1]
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Scenario creation accuracy - 6/25/2020 8:13:57 PM   


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Hello all:

Longtime player but new to scenario creation. A question for the gorup: when you create historical scenarios, to what extent do you try to go for complete historical accuracy vs. "generally getting the feel right?" Reason I ask, and to give an example, is that ive been trying to set up a 1950s Cold War gone hot in Europe scenario, but I'm having a lot of trouble finding accurate OOBs for e.g. how many air units of what type were in given airbases at that time. On the other hand, I have no problem throwing a bunch of Sabres here, a bunch of MiG-15s there, etc., and that feels at least directionally correct. What do you tend to do philosophically in this regard when you create scenarios?
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RE: Scenario creation accuracy - 6/25/2020 8:43:37 PM   

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I think it depends on the scenario designer. It's generally expected that the scenario be reasonably accurate, but one doesn't have to be hours-in-an-archive level accurate.

(in reply to CaptainKoloth)
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RE: Scenario creation accuracy - 6/25/2020 9:29:26 PM   

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Depends on the scenario. When I did El Dorado Canyon I intentionally went for as accurate as I could get. Part of the reason it took the better part of four years was the research and but most of it was me continually revising portions of it to reflect aspects of the mission as accurately as possible. Not sure how many times I redid the in air aborts but it was more then a few. I even considered implementing Apache's fatigue script but decided against it.

Were as if I was doing something mid 80's NATO v USSR I'd do some research but I wouldn't let that stopping me from making any changes to make the scenario play better. I've had a rough set up for a classic DotV scenario for awhile. The Soviets didn't have many bases up north to support large formations of bombers and front line fighters. Not to mention their lack of tankers. But to make the scenario at least more then, run NATO out of missiles, I used the reasoning that with the front moved farther forward Frontal Aviation also moved forward thus freeing up bases for more bombers. For the tankers, I used the reasoning that back room dealings before the war resulted in a tacit agreement of no nukes, thus letting tankers normally reserved for long range aviation nuclear strike packages being freed up to support SNA/LRA bombers vs the NATO carrier groups.

< Message edited by Kushan04 -- 6/26/2020 2:37:22 PM >


(in reply to HalfLifeExpert)
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RE: Scenario creation accuracy - 6/25/2020 9:49:56 PM   

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I think that reasonableness is more important than "realism" as the latter generally means something different to each player. That said, well thought out scenario descriptions and Player briefings go a very long way towards selling your particular vision of the situation and the world that you are attempting to create.

Beware of scenario creep! Your end goal is justifiably vague but if you attempt to model a hot war across the entire Inter-German Border, you could easily produce an unplayable monster although to be sure that would have a certain charm to a subset of CMO Players.

I try to focus on creating a scenario that fits a particular command position or level and remember that in the 1950's things were not nearly as "joint" as they are declared to be in 2020. For example, giving naval units to a player Air Group commander might prove a distraction but including naval units in a non-Player controlled side can provide the signature of a global battlefield. You can always set up a Special Action that gives the Player additional forces using the Lua Change_Side function if that floats your boat (figuratively). If there are any naval scenarios from this time period, you might see if any of them might have some infrastructure or organisational that could assist you. Should you use other's work, be nice and provide an honourable mention to the originator somewhere in your scenario documentation. Check the CWDB Import folder for import files that may already be available for you but as a caveat, remember that many Import files use Single Unit Airfields, which are NOT targetable. To keep the AU down, you can create an airfields-only side with all units blind but friendly to the Player and with the Player friendly to it. This is basically invisible to the Player but can reduce the load on the CPU when things start hitting the fan.

As for how many aircraft of what type where, that's really unimportant because the counterfactual nature of your scenario means that you can skew the situation as desired. For my nuclear Armageddon scenarios, specific information was often elusive or contradictory and so this is where the concept of reasonableness comes in. For example I tended to use 27-plane Regiments for the PVO with nine-aircraft per squadron. Likewise no commander ever has enough so assets like air-tankers should be available in limited quantities. This number may be too low but if so it accounts for the fact that availability will usually be <70% even in a First World air force. But that quantity facilitates organizing interceptions using trios of aircraft, which I believe was PVO doctrine at the time. It helps me to attempt to design for effect rather than trying to be historically determinative or slavishly accurate. For example most tankers were SAC resources so giving quantities of KC-97s to the Tactical Air Force in Europe should not be considered reasonable unless you (briefly) explain why.

Your mileage may vary, good luck.


< Message edited by Randomizer -- 6/25/2020 9:51:35 PM >

(in reply to Kushan04)
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RE: Scenario creation accuracy - 6/26/2020 12:48:14 PM   


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I tend to go with the reality without rigor approach. In Northern Fury I've taken what existed in 89 and built on it to make my own history

So without digging into too much research some guidelines that I think are reasonable:

-National forces should operate from the bases that they historically did - or you give a reason why not.
-Squadron sizes should be roughly right (for Ftrs USAF-24, USN/USMC-12(or less), RAF-12, most other Europeans between 15-18) then you adjust for maintenance, as Randomizer said 70% is a good target - either remove them or put them in Maintenance Loadout to take up space and become targets. I believe Sov VVS Regts are 3x Sqn of 12 +5 in the HQ (often trainers)
-Go for the AC types that are reasonable - not all would be of the latest model but Europe would have priority on those
-Look to other time periods and extrapolate. There is a lot of stuff available on Wiki for 1989, not sure if that is much use to you in the 50s but it might be (for basing at least but those change as well)

You're spending your time & effort to make a scenario, the most important thing is that it should be fun and enjoyable.



Check out our novel, Northern Fury: H-Hour!:
And our blog:
Twitter: @NorthernFury94 or Facebook

(in reply to Randomizer)
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RE: Scenario creation accuracy - 6/26/2020 3:06:18 PM   

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I've been wrestling with the same question with my own current Falkland's War efforts. Even in such a well known historical event, some key facts (for game purposes) can be hard to find without specialist research. How many AIM-9L were embarked on the British TF? I could learn it if I went to Kew and looked at the UK archives, but even authoritative histories will not give such detail. So its educated guestimates and what might make for an exciting dilemma for the player... (And how many AIM-9L, well I know they placed an emergency order for 300 more, from which I can surmise they had rather less than that, perhaps no more than 80...)

(in reply to Gunner98)
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RE: Scenario creation accuracy - 6/28/2020 11:12:05 PM   

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I have gone as far as to look up individual ships and squadron history to see if they were deployed during the situation or could have been deployed. Even with modern scenarios I make sure vessels are with the right fleet and if I can track down their availability I do.

So it the USS Enterprise was refueling during a scenario time frame, she's out of the OOB consideration.


"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to CaptainKoloth)
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RE: Scenario creation accuracy - 6/28/2020 11:51:13 PM   


Posts: 5010
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
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So it the USS Enterprise was refueling during a scenario time frame, she's out of the OOB consideration.

This is a good example of the options available - I wanted the Enterprise so wrote up a story to make it fit.



Check out our novel, Northern Fury: H-Hour!:
And our blog:
Twitter: @NorthernFury94 or Facebook

(in reply to BeirutDude)
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