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RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 6/28/2020 3:02:49 AM   
Dili

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred



6.  Irrespective of whether a base has surplus raw materials, or the TF can dock at the port, not all bases qualify to provide a return cargo.  Qualification is dependent on regional location.    Again, before you ask, no I won't state how the qualification is determined.  The devs have had many opportunities to disclose the regional boundaries if they were inclined to do so.





Since the auto convoy is sending on propose TF's to bring resources back what justifies the discrimination between return cargo and on propose TF's to bring it back?


< Message edited by Dili -- 6/28/2020 3:03:39 AM >

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 31
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 6/28/2020 4:59:04 AM   
Alfred

 

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The Auto Convoy system is not built to send out an empty TF.  It is not a resource gathering shortcut.

Alfred

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 32
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 6/29/2020 8:52:54 AM   
Dili

 

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But it is what is a doing. Besides sending another convoy supplies and another convoy of fuel.

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Post #: 33
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 6/30/2020 12:30:13 AM   
Alfred

 

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Put up the evidence that empty Auto Convoys are leaving Osaka, or San Francisco, or Colombo, and then returning with resources from the outlying bases.

Alfred

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 34
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 6/30/2020 12:40:40 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Put up the evidence that empty Auto Convoys are leaving Osaka, or San Francisco, or Colombo, and then returning with resources from the outlying bases.

Alfred


He doesn't need to, already done.

See my post this thread, post #27, Task Force 474 as pictured. Heads out empty to pick up resources.



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 6/30/2020 12:41:50 AM >

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Post #: 35
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 6/30/2020 1:24:53 AM   
Alfred

 

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Lets see TF 474 actually loaded with resources on return trip.

Afred

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 36
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 6/30/2020 1:59:13 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Lets see TF 474 actually loaded with resources on return trip.

Afred


Sorry, the game has progressed past that point. I do recall them bringing back resources though. Actually think it would be a shame if that convoy did carry supplies out since the base already has lots of supply (c40K) for very few (and small) units.

But I will monitor my auto convoys and show you the AI is discerning and does ship out empty convoys to pickup resources if supplies aren't needed at that particular base. Just take a bit of time.

Here are my current auto convoys, where I added several bases that do generate resources to see what happens.

One of the pitfalls of the auto convoy system is that the task force doesn't follow a coastal route, which was subsequently added after the game release. The convoy at Formosa is comprised of two 14 knot ships.

Overall I am pleased with the auto convoy system for certain tasks.





I also see I ran out of PB escort ships, and TF 188 is out without escort. Oops. I fixed that, but it seems some task forces have two escorts for one cargo ship...none have three escorts for one cargo ship though.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 6/30/2020 2:03:40 AM >

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Post #: 37
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 6/30/2020 10:50:52 AM   
Lowpe


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I added a few more ships to the auto convoy routine, and the AI immediately created task force 351 (and others) but 351 left Osaka empty and is heading for Naha for resources.....

The ai loves to groups task force composition to speed plus the tanker/cargo combination task force is interesting too.




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RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 6/30/2020 4:41:01 PM   
Lowpe


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A few days later task force 351 arrives, docks, and starts to load resources.






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Post #: 39
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/1/2020 1:43:04 AM   
Dili

 

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Thanks Lowpe

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Post #: 40
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/1/2020 8:19:54 AM   
Ian R

 

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Gents, I am not sure what the debate is- it is WAD per the manual:

quote:

Ships are put into this system by the player at Osaka, San Francisco, or Karachi, and bases must be specifically set to be
included in the system to receive supplies/fuel or have resources picked up.




_____________________________

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Ian R

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 41
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/1/2020 12:18:08 PM   
Lowpe


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No controversy, just answering Alfred's question which is a rare treat. Almost always he answers the questions! Can't tell you how many of his posts I have saved, read and re-read.

Task Force 351 is fully loaded and will return to Osaka with its load of resources.

Auto convoy working pretty decently, certainly better than most players think.




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RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/1/2020 12:57:58 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

No controversy, just answering Alfred's question which is a rare treat. Almost always he answers the questions! Can't tell you how many of his posts I have saved, read and re-read.

Task Force 351 is fully loaded and will return to Osaka with its load of resources.

Auto convoy working pretty decently, certainly better than most players think.




The moral of the story is that it's not a bug unless Alfred says it is.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 43
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/1/2020 8:54:15 PM   
Lowpe


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And finally task force 351 comes to an end, after emptying her load of resources it disbands into Osaka, the ships that were task force 351 awaiting their next exciting auto convoy mission.








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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/1/2020 8:56:04 PM >

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 44
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/2/2020 9:46:57 AM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The moral of the story is that it's not a bug unless Alfred says it is.


And what Alfred said was auto convoys don’t take supplies/fuel out and then also bring back resources/oil.

Which, the IJ did not organise in real life*, and the Allies don’t need to do in the game.
[*Empty ships would pass each other going back and forth due to the disdain of the IJ military with respect to dirtying their hands in mere civilian matters.]



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- Cdr Spock


Ian R

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 45
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/2/2020 1:21:53 PM   
Lowpe


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This is by far and away my biggest experience ever with automatic convoys.

It seems you need twice as many escorts as merchant ships to guarantee all convoys have an escort as no convoy has more than 2 escorts per merchant ship...currently I have 9 escorts and 10 merchant ships allocated. So fine tuning needed.

Safer routes are ordered for task forces and there is no way to choose coast routing.

Compared to doing it manually, there is some fuel wastage in having to traverse to Osaka rather than a closer base.

Once empty, the convoy will not route to a nearby base to pickup resources but will rather head back to Osaka, disband to port for a day and a new task force created if needed.

Pretty confident a task force will deliver supplies and pick up resources if available. I will keep an eye on Task Force 199 delivering supplies to Taihoku where resources are available for pickup.





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Post #: 46
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/2/2020 1:57:49 PM   
Ian R

 

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quote:


Pretty confident a task force will deliver supplies and pick up resources if available. I will keep an eye on Task Force 199 delivering supplies to Taihoku where resources are available for pickup.


Interested to see the result.

Also interested to hear Alfred's prediction.

_____________________________

"You may find that having is not so nearly pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
- Cdr Spock


Ian R

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Post #: 47
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/2/2020 4:15:03 PM   
Dili

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R
And what Alfred said was auto convoys don’t take supplies/fuel out and then also bring back resources/oil.



Incorrect. This is what Alfred said:

quote:

The Auto Convoy system is not built to send out an empty TF. It is not a resource gathering shortcut.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Pretty confident a task force will deliver supplies and pick up resources if available. I will keep an eye on Task Force 199 delivering supplies to Taihoku where resources are available for pickup.


Not happened with me, the Auto convoy was sending supply/ fuel in convoys and sending another convoy to pick up resources.

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 48
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/2/2020 4:36:04 PM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R
And what Alfred said was auto convoys don’t take supplies/fuel out and then also bring back resources/oil.



Incorrect. This is what Alfred said:

quote:

The Auto Convoy system is not built to send out an empty TF. It is not a resource gathering shortcut.


I'll leave you to debate the detail with him.


_____________________________

"You may find that having is not so nearly pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
- Cdr Spock


Ian R

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 49
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/2/2020 5:44:26 PM   
Dili

 

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A detail that is big enough that makes it different than what you said.

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 50
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/2/2020 5:46:13 PM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

A detail that is big enough that makes it different than what you said.


But not inconsistent with the description in the manual.

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"You may find that having is not so nearly pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
- Cdr Spock


Ian R

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 51
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/2/2020 6:06:26 PM   
Dili

 

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No.
In fact inconsistent with what you said you posted above from the manual:

quote:

Ships are put into this system by the player at Osaka, San Francisco, or Karachi, and bases must be specifically set to be
included in the system to receive supplies/fuel or have resources picked up.


bold mine

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Post #: 52
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/3/2020 1:34:40 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

Not happened with me, the Auto convoy was sending supply/ fuel in convoys and sending another convoy to pick up resources.


The task force should make Formosa with the next turn. There is close to 500K resources sitting in port, so I am guessing the base qualifies as a provider for resources...we shall see.

I am betting that it will deliver supplies and then pickup resources. We will know shortly.

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 53
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/3/2020 2:01:01 PM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili


No.
In fact inconsistent with what you said you posted above from the manual:

quote:

Ships are put into this system by the player at Osaka, San Francisco, or Karachi, and bases must be specifically set to be
included in the system to receive supplies/fuel or have resources picked up.


bold mine


Dili, you are discussing semantics with a lawyer of 35 years experience. I can only say that sometimes "may" means "shall", and "or" means "and", depending on context. Or, "and/or", which this context may support, given that the manual was a non technical document written by a committee that was not intended to be either transparent or precise.

I don't want to get into a spat, I'm just saying...

_____________________________

"You may find that having is not so nearly pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
- Cdr Spock


Ian R

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Post #: 54
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/3/2020 3:18:09 PM   
PaxMondo


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I vote wee wait for Lowpe's test, and no matter the result, agree that it is likely to be true 55% of the time, give or take a bit.



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Post #: 55
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/3/2020 10:16:47 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I vote wee wait for Lowpe's test, and no matter the result, agree that it is likely to be true 55% of the time, give or take a bit.




Down to 1300 supplies to offload.

There certainly could be a random calculation involved in this too. Or it simply could be one of areas of the game the Developers didn't get to fully develop before release.



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Post #: 56
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/4/2020 7:49:20 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I vote wee wait for Lowpe's test, and no matter the result, agree that it is likely to be true 55% of the time, give or take a bit.




Down to 1300 supplies to offload.

There certainly could be a random calculation involved in this too. Or it simply could be one of areas of the game the Developers didn't get to fully develop before release.




I'm willing to bet both are in play … Gary is addicted to his random number generator and the devs freely admitted that they had time constraints on a great many ideas.

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Pax

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Post #: 57
RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/6/2020 12:58:29 PM   
Lowpe


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And here we have it, Task Force 199 after dropping off a full load of supplies, is now loading resources from Taihoku to transport them to Osaka.

So auto convoy has pretty much full functioning based on somewhat hidden criteria -- but applied common sense and it works well.

It will send out empty convoys to pick up resources.
It will send out supply convoys and then pickup resources.
It will send out supply only convoys.
A careful player can guarantee that each convoy has an escort.
It will mix tankers and cargo ships into the same task force.

Quite handy, but a little wasteful on fuel for Japan but does reduce clicks.








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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/6/2020 1:54:31 PM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)
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RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/6/2020 1:27:28 PM   
Lowpe


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With resources almost fully loaded.






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RE: CS-Continuous Supply question - 7/6/2020 1:58:33 PM   
Ian R

 

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Sometimes "or" means "and/or".


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

And here we have it, Task Force 199 after dropping off a full load of supplies, is now loading resources from Taihoku to transport them to Osaka.

So auto convoy has pretty much full functioning based on somewhat hidden criteria -- but applied common sense and it works well.

It will send out empty convoys to pick up resources.
It will send out supply convoys and then pickup resources.
It will send out supply only convoys.
A careful player can guarantee that each convoy has an escort.
It will mix tankers and cargo ships into the same task force.

Quite handy, but a little wasteful on fuel for Japan but does reduce clicks.










_____________________________

"You may find that having is not so nearly pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
- Cdr Spock


Ian R

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 60
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